List Mgmt. 2022 List Management and trading thread

[Scorpus]

I saw this format on the West Coast board and thought it might help understand our current list position

 

[Jirkago75]

Looking at the way Stewart killed us yesterday, I think we need to trade Doedee. Yes it’s a wierd thought but here me out. We make Keath and Lever look like stars because we had 2 good Key defenders, Frampton and Murray are not up to it or are a few years away before they are ready. If I see Doedee play as a key defender one more time, we are not chance of winning that game.
He’s already 25 and if it takes 2 or 3 more years before we have another competitive tall, he won’t be worth having him for 2 or so years left. That’s not including him being injured 2/3rds of every year.

I like Doedee as a player but maybe it’s time to get another good draft pick in and try Worrell or someone else in the 3rd tall roll and maybe Doedee can win a flag somewhere else. Hope for a top 15 pick and everyone is a winner

 

[MRB37]

So this has legs or just piss talk?

It has some legs, but I believe it's only under the scenario that McStay leaves, and also has to factor in if we want to trade him and if he wants to go. Also he wouldn't be the only option the Lions go in with, they'd have a list of guys they think are "gettable", so who knows where they rate Fogarty on that list.

Will Brisbane’s second round pick get it done?

Not sure, I believe Lions have Will Ashcroft as a F/S pick this year, so not sure where he's rated to go in the draft (I think pretty high) and what they'd need to keep to be able to pick him up. Could be the type of trade where we give them a bunch of back end picks to give them more points? Not sure.

 

[1990crow]

Looking at the way Stewart killed us yesterday, I think we need to trade Doedee. Yes it’s a wierd thought but here me out. We make Keath and Lever look like stars because we had 2 good Key defenders, Frampton and Murray are not up to it or are a few years away before they are ready. If I see Doedee play as a key defender one more time, we are not chance of winning that game.
He’s already 25 and if it takes 2 or 3 more years before we have another competitive tall, he won’t be worth having him for 2 or so years left. That’s not including him being injured 2/3rds of every year.

I like Doedee as a player but maybe it’s time to get another good draft pick in and try Worrell or someone else in the 3rd tall roll and maybe Doedee can win a flag somewhere else. Hope for a top 15 pick and everyone is a winner

What a weird post.

 

[DJ75]

Looking at the way Stewart killed us yesterday, I think we need to trade Doedee. Yes it’s a wierd thought but here me out. We make Keath and Lever look like stars because we had 2 good Key defenders, Frampton and Murray are not up to it or are a few years away before they are ready. If I see Doedee play as a key defender one more time, we are not chance of winning that game.
He’s already 25 and if it takes 2 or 3 more years before we have another competitive tall, he won’t be worth having him for 2 or so years left. That’s not including him being injured 2/3rds of every year.

I like Doedee as a player but maybe it’s time to get another good draft pick in and try Worrell or someone else in the 3rd tall roll and maybe Doedee can win a flag somewhere else. Hope for a top 15 pick and everyone is a winner

You're going to cop a lot of flack for that post, but I get where you are coming from.

Doedee is a quality player that would attract a decent draft pick. We are going nowhere at this point, and by the time we do actually get it together, Doedee is probably towards the end of his career. So, maybe we should look at cashing him in to attract some younger talent in more critical roles.
I don't think I would do it. But I get where you are coming from. God knows we need more high end talent coming through and we have so very little to offer in terms of trades.

 

[MRB37]

You're going to cop a lot of flack for that post, but I get where you are coming from.

Doedee is a quality player that would attract a decent draft pick. We are going nowhere at this point, and by the time we do actually get it together, Doedee is probably towards the end of his career. So, maybe we should look at cashing him in to attract some younger talent in more critical roles.
I don't think I would do it. But I get where you are coming from. God knows we need more high end talent coming through and we have so very little to offer in terms of trades.

The time to do it was in 2020 with a Smith or a Laird type. Too late for Smith now.

 

[Interloperer]

Doedee is a quality player that would attract a decent draft pick.

You're not wrong. There'd also be about 50% chance at best of even a #1 draft pick being as good as Doedee.

Then there's the question of why a team in a position to have such a draft pick would want Doedee if the Crows don't?

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

You're going to cop a lot of flack for that post, but I get where you are coming from.

Doedee is a quality player that would attract a decent draft pick. We are going nowhere at this point, and by the time we do actually get it together, Doedee is probably towards the end of his career. So, maybe we should look at cashing him in to attract some younger talent in more critical roles.
I don't think I would do it. But I get where you are coming from. God knows we need more high end talent coming through and we have so very little to offer in terms of trades.

Doedee is 25, how is that towards the end of his career?

 

[Jirkago75]

What a weird post.

By the time we have 2 good defenders, he will be 28 plus and due to his past injuries it might be best for both club and player to move forward. Honestly his performances in the last year and a half have been up and down, he’s good player and I like him and his performance bar his inconsistency.

He isn’t helping win or lose games in my eyes and I hate watching him be the second tall as he is hopelessly outsized . Because McAsey hasn’t come along at all, Frampton and Murray are poor, Doedee‘a performance have suffered.

 

[jackster83]

Doedee is 25, how is that towards the end of his career?

He means by the time we get our shit together (probably some time around 2027).

 

[1990crow]

By the time we have 2 good defenders, he will be 28 plus and due to his past injuries it might be best for both club and player to move forward. Honestly his performances in the last year and a half have been up and down, he’s good player and I like him and his performance bar his inconsistency.

He isn’t helping win or lose games in my eyes and I hate watching him be the second tall as he is hopelessly outsized . Because McAsey hasn’t come along at all, Frampton and Murray are poor, Doedee‘a performance have suffered.

We also have very few good players around his age and younger. In two years time if it's clear we need to build for 2028-2030 sure, but it's too early to be limiting whether we can move towards a push in 3-4 years.

 

[Kezza86]

This list is another preseason from going to another level. First season with burgess.

It seems the fan base are impatient with the rebuild. The 2s have had a massive improvement which is a good indication for the future.

 

[Vader]

This list is another preseason from going to another level. First season with burgess.

It seems the fan base are impatient with the rebuild. The 2s have had a massive improvement which is a good indication for the future.

People keep throwing hissy fits, forgetting just how young & inexperienced this team is.

In the last 4 weeks, our team has averaged 20+ (vs Carlton), 39 (vs Brisbane), 30+ (vs St Kilda) and 60+ (vs Geelong) games less than their opposition. Geelong's players were almost exactly twice as experienced as their Adelaide equivalents, even with 11 gamer De Koning and 1st gamer Neale.

We're good enough to win against the better (more experienced teams) when we're having a good day, and they're having a bad day. The Richmond/Bulldogs/Tools games all prove this. However, if they're not having a bad day then even our best will struggle to break even.

This is what happens when you have the youngest & least experienced team in the entire competition. The kids need time to develop - both physically, and in their depth of experience. We will continue to see results like we are at present until this happens. It's not bad coaching, and it's not bad list management (though there are elements of this). It's a direct result of youth & inexperience.

 

[DJ75]

So, MSD coming up, do we consider a key defender? There are a few rated highly that could be available.
It's clear Frampton, McAsey and Murray aren't the answer.

 

[1970crow]

So this has legs or just piss talk?

Vague recollection he got something really wrong a few weeks ago. Not sure if it was similar topic or just a bad footy opinion. Interesting that Tex organises for the imaginary 2 year offer to get leaked to media and a few days later it’s leaked that Fog is talking to another club.

Duelling fantasies being pushed by managers is half a chance. But if I was Fog and the club is considering extending Tex, I’d be putting myself out there too. He’d have a few interested in him. Decent quality asset being under-utilised, it’s what all decent list managers are looking for.

 

[Sanders]

Pretty much the entire pre draft coverage said similar. Vader isn't alone in thinking that, though it's impossible to prove.

Pre-draft coverage converges on what is going to happen. That’s very far from providing an insight into wider league views

 

[LoBu]

And you reckon that’s functionally any different?

It's poor journalism by Kane Cornes, and yes I think the real data points to 2 taller players, and with just 1 under 180cm it actually looks balanced.

The argument should be about skill, potential and experience.

Do you think the point is well made?

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

It's poor journalism by Kane Cornes, and yes I think the real data points to 2 taller players, and with just 1 under 180cm it actually looks balanced.

The argument should be about skill, potential and experience.

Do you think the point is well made?

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Kornes is not a journalist... rather a sensationalist chasing notoriety.

Unfortunately much of the AFL media are the same.

 

[LoBu]

Looking at the way Stewart killed us yesterday, I think we need to trade Doedee. Yes it’s a wierd thought but here me out. We make Keath and Lever look like stars because we had 2 good Key defenders, Frampton and Murray are not up to it or are a few years away before they are ready. If I see Doedee play as a key defender one more time, we are not chance of winning that game.
He’s already 25 and if it takes 2 or 3 more years before we have another competitive tall, he won’t be worth having him for 2 or so years left. That’s not including him being injured 2/3rds of every year.

I like Doedee as a player but maybe it’s time to get another good draft pick in and try Worrell or someone else in the 3rd tall roll and maybe Doedee can win a flag somewhere else. Hope for a top 15 pick and everyone is a winner

This seems like a joke in the outlandishness of the comment, it almost makes sense but doesn't.

You are saying that because it will take 2-3 more years to fill the key defender positions that we sold trade Doedee.

But if you were right and we have a functioning back line in 3 years, then surely having Doedee marshaling the defence for 3 years would be ideal?

If we are in the zone in 3 years, he will be running the entire back line, I just can't see the point of trading him for a pick, say 15 max.



On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Bearded Clam]

So this has legs or just piss talk?

Rockliff is currently desperately trying to gain a reputation in the AFL media..

he “apparently“ had mail on Clarkson ringing around to all Free Agent players a few weeks back telling them not to re-sign with their clubs!..

seems the lad wants to bullshit his way into an AFL media position.

rumours of Fog looking elsewhere have come out just about every single year since he’s been at the club..

and he’s always quashed them and said he’s never ever going anywhere else..

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

criticism of list management is fine, often valid. But at least get the stats right, or the argument loses credibility. Trying to drive a point home with infactual data is poor commentary. View attachment 1411349

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Even if he was right, this is Ports squad from their tallest midfield. Note that Boak and Butters are so short, that they can’t fit on my phone screen.

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

Rockliff is currently desperately trying to gain a reputation in the AFL media..

he “apparently“ had mail on Clarkson ringing around to all Free Agent players a few weeks back telling them not to re-sign with their clubs!..

seems the lad wants to bullshit his way into an AFL media position.

rumours of Fog looking elsewhere have come out just about every single year since he’s been at the club..

and he’s always quashed them and said he’s never ever going anywhere else..

He made up the story about being abused at the Carlton game coz he was having a sook then ran with it when it got media attention.

 

[Bob Neil]

One thing that’s really dawned on me this weekend is that we’ve got three small forwards (Rowe, McHenry, Murphy) none of whom are quick. It’s such a glaring oversight when you look around the league and see so many speedy forwards (many of whom are low draft picks or rookies) doing damage both offensively and defensively.
Another example of where our list management is out of touch with not just the leaders but the bulk of teams.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

One thing that’s really dawned on me this weekend is that we’ve got three small forwards (Rowe, McHenry, Murphy) none of whom are quick. It’s such a glaring oversight when you look around the league and see so many speedy forwards (many of whom are low draft picks or rookies) doing damage both offensively and defensively.
Another example of where our list management is out of touch with not just the leaders but the bulk of teams.

It's why i would like us to give Newchurch a taste... as we need some raw pace.

 

[MRB37]

One thing that’s really dawned on me this weekend is that we’ve got three small forwards (Rowe, McHenry, Murphy) none of whom are quick. It’s such a glaring oversight when you look around the league and see so many speedy forwards (many of whom are low draft picks or rookies) doing damage both offensively and defensively.
Another example of where our list management is out of touch with not just the leaders but the bulk of teams.

Rowe is the only one who is a "natural" forward. The other two are converted mids and we don't like speed in our midfielders! That's a big part of our issues I think. We draft players and then have to convert them to other positions.

IMO those "niche" positions should be the last you fill, either with late picks, or with an talent with elite football traits when you've got the rest down (Like Melbourne with Kossi Pickett).

 

[Sanders]

People keep throwing hissy fits, forgetting just how young & inexperienced this team is.

In the last 4 weeks, our team has averaged 20+ (vs Carlton), 39 (vs Brisbane), 30+ (vs St Kilda) and 60+ (vs Geelong) games less than their opposition. Geelong's players were almost exactly twice as experienced as their Adelaide equivalents, even with 11 gamer De Koning and 1st gamer Neale.

We're good enough to win against the better (more experienced teams) when we're having a good day, and they're having a bad day. The Richmond/Bulldogs/Tools games all prove this. However, if they're not having a bad day then even our best will struggle to break even.

This is what happens when you have the youngest & least experienced team in the entire competition. The kids need time to develop - both physically, and in their depth of experience. We will continue to see results like we are at present until this happens. It's not bad coaching, and it's not bad list management (though there are elements of this). It's a direct result of youth & inexperience.

It’s already been shown conclusively there is no relationship between games played and results.

So of course you’re still banging that drum