List Mgmt. 2022 List Management and trading thread

[Scorpus]

I saw this format on the West Coast board and thought it might help understand our current list position

 

[LeftyLuke]

I think clubs need to be better at not entering into trade negotiations for contracted players they want to keep, as well as picking up players in the PSD even if they elected to go elsewhere.

Agree on the contracted players leaving early unless for a valid reason. I. would have made Cameron play out his contract here regardless if he was definitely leaving after it ended.

 

[LoBu]

Agree on the contracted players leaving early unless for a valid reason. I. would have made Cameron play out his contract here regardless if he was definitely leaving after it ended.

I think pick 12 was seen as paying overs, even though he kicked 5 in the prelim that year, and that sweetened the deal enough to let him go.

 

[LoBu]

Actually, on this subject, how many of the list management genuises on the board picked Freo to be doing as well as they are?? How many of last weeks squad are endlessly lauded on here (Serong and thats about it right?) like the GWS high draft pick / talent fap fest (looks like its now going to be a hawks fap fest)??

I think a casual draft observer would have recognised the exceptional talent Freo have been able to amass the past 6 years. Consider their top end picks each year; not only have they had access to high end talent, but also multiple picks in the top ten on 3 occasions:

2016 - pick 8
2017 - pick 2,5
2018 - pick 17
2019 - pick 7,8,9
2020 - pick 14
2021 - pick 8,10

Compare to Adelaide, they are miles ahead:

2016 - pick 15
2017 - pick 12
2018 - pick 9,16
2019 - pick 6
2020 - pick 2,11
2021 - pick 6

The surprise was that they didn't get it together last year, but Ross the Boss was probably holding them back.

 

[jackster83]

I think a casual draft observer would have recognised the exceptional talent Freo have been able to amass the past 6 years. Consider their top end picks each year; not only have they had access to high end talent, but also multiple picks in the top ten on 3 occasions:

2016 - pick 8
2017 - pick 2,5
2018 - pick 17
2019 - pick 7,8,9
2020 - pick 14
2021 - pick 8,10

Compare to Adelaide, they are miles ahead:

2016 - pick 15
2017 - pick 12
2018 - pick 9,16
2019 - pick 6
2020 - pick 2,11
2021 - pick 6

The surprise was that they didn't get it together last year, but Ross the Boss was probably holding them back.

They should have made the finals last year, except they shit the bed in the last match.

 

[Bearded Clam]

So assuming we have to make three changes, who are we delisting?

Davis, maybe Seed through injury.

What I’d like to see..

-Davis gone
-Seed.. retired hurt
-One of frampton or himm gone.. the other held onto for depth.
-Borlase gone. Whilst he does some good things.. Just cant see it overall i’m afraid.
-Mcrouch paid what is remaining on his contract and told to pack his bags.
-Sloane encouraged to take a payout and retire hurt. There is no way at his age that he’s going to return to where he was prior to his injury.. and where he was, was already pretty bad as it is..

-would also love to get Dunkley and, if we could, then move one of Keays or Laird onto the trade table. Dunkley, whilst his kicking skills are only just slightly better than laird/keays.. he has more upside than either of these two and makes better decisions IMO..

And…
All in for JHF if, by a miracle, he asks for a trade and north decide to allow it this year knowing they will be able to ask a fortune for him this year..

 

[AFC979810]

Actually, on this subject, how many of the list management genuises on the board picked Freo to be doing as well as they are??

Time for me to redeem myself after a last place finish a few years ago.

Bulldogs
Brisbane
Melbourne
St. Kilda
Port Adelaide
Essendon
Fremantle
Collingwood

Had em at 7th.

 

[Crows I Am]

Tom Boyd was worth Ryan Griffin and pick 6 after 1 year in the system. Surely for JHF our first rounder and a player would do it is anyone off limits our only pre-agents are crouch and Doedee. Maybe crouch and a another. But would we say no if they asked for Doedee and our first pick?

Problem would be trying to convince any of our players to agree to go to North.

 

[AFC979810]

Problem would be trying to convince any of our players to agree to go to North.

Don't think it would be as tough as you think.

 

[whattagun07]

Chayce Jones

1

Chayce Jones

Age

25

Ht

180cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.0

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

4.6

3star

M

1.7

2star

T

1.9

4star

CL

1.3

3star

D

8.9

2star

K

4.9

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

1.4

2star

T

1.6

3star

CL

1.1

3star

D

9.4

3star

K

4.4

2star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.6

2star

T

1.8

4star

CL

0.8

3star

- Has never had 20 touches in a game of AFL footy.

Nicks gave him a string of games in the middle in 2020.

Rounds 6-9 he attended 53%, 63%, 85% and 60% of the centre bounces respectively.

In these games he registered 11, 6, 6, and 8 disposals.

He has not attended a centre bounce since.

Where does the blame for this fall? Hamish? Chayce? Coaching/Development?

Sums up our last 5 years.

Not sure why I posted this here. Is he worth persisting with as a BP? Try him again in the middle? Or try and move him on / delist?

 

[rabidcrow]

Tom Boyd was worth Ryan Griffin and pick 6 after 1 year in the system. Surely for JHF our first rounder and a player would do it is anyone off limits our only pre-agents are crouch and Doedee. Maybe crouch and a another. But would we say no if they asked for Doedee and our first pick?

Would handover Doedee in a heart beat for that trade


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[LeftyLuke]

What I’d like to see..

-Davis gone
-Seed.. retired hurt
-One of frampton or himm gone.. the other held onto for depth.
-Borlase gone. Whilst he does some good things.. Just cant see it overall i’m afraid.
-Mcrouch paid what is remaining on his contract and told to pack his bags.
-Sloane encouraged to take a payout and retire hurt. There is no way at his age that he’s going to return to where he was prior to his injury.. and where he was, was already pretty bad as it is..

-would also love to get Dunkley and, if we could, then move one of Keays or Laird onto the trade table. Dunkley, whilst his kicking skills are only just slightly better than laird/keays.. he has more upside than either of these two and makes better decisions IMO..

And…
All in for JHF if, by a miracle, he asks for a trade and north decide to allow it this year knowing they will be able to ask a fortune for him this year..

Davis should have gone 3 years ago.
I think unfortunately we have seen the last of Seed.
I think Frampton is gone end of contract.
I reckon they keep Berg as backup.
Borlase will be out. Just not up to it and too slow.
Crouch will be out end of next.
Sloane won't leave early imo. Expect a Scott Thompson final year.
We need to look for a trade for Milera.
Jones is another I would look for a trade.
Sholl will be off to Carlton which I'm fine with.
I would sign up Gollant but I worry he will leave if not signed up next 2 weeks.
I think we will trade Worrell as well.
Strachan might get a better deal elsewhere but I hope he stays. He is 26 so it might be his only chance to get some coin.

 

[whattagun07]

If Tim English re-commits to the dogs, I'd be looking closely at South Aussie Jordan Sweet as a possible ruck recruit for 2024. Will be 26 by round 1 that year. 205cm, mobile and a nice looking kick. If he's stuck behind English for another 4-5 years. Contracted for 2023.

 

[AFC979810]

Chayce Jones - Has never had 20 touches in a game of AFL footy.

Nicks gave him a string of games in the middle in 2020.

Rounds 6-9 he attended 53%, 63%, 85% and 60% of the centre bounces respectively.

In these games he registered 11, 6, 6, and 8 disposals.

He has not attended a centre bounce since.

Where does the blame for this fall? Hamish? Chayce? Coaching/Development?

Sums up our last 5 years.

Careful. You might start a thread full of excuses. Just like old mate Fog.

 

[Danger in Texas]

If Tim English re-commits to the dogs, I'd be looking closely at South Aussie Jordan Sweet as a possible ruck recruit for 2024. Will be 26 by round 1 that year. 205cm, mobile and a nice looking kick. If he's stuck behind English for another 4-5 years. Contracted for 2023.

Also Nick Bryan from Essendon, still raw but really quite athletic and skilled for his size. OOC next year as well

 

[conVINCEd]

I think a casual draft observer would have recognised the exceptional talent Freo have been able to amass the past 6 years. Consider their top end picks each year; not only have they had access to high end talent, but also multiple picks in the top ten on 3 occasions:

2016 - pick 8
2017 - pick 2,5
2018 - pick 17
2019 - pick 7,8,9
2020 - pick 14
2021 - pick 8,10

They did lose pick 5 from 2017 (Cerra) to get pick 8 in 2021.

 

[jackster83]

They did lose pick 5 from 2017 (Cerra) to get pick 8 in 2021.

Would be nice if we could get a mid the quality of Brayshaw. He will win a Brownlow in the next 2-3 years.

 

[Thetrader15]

Would be nice if we could get a mid the quality of Brayshaw. He will win a Brownlow in the next 2-3 years.

Not if he plays on the half forward line for his 6 games a year.

 

[Thetrader15]

Davis should have gone 3 years ago.
I think unfortunately we have seen the last of Seed.
I think Frampton is gone end of contract.
I reckon they keep Berg as backup.
Borlase will be out. Just not up to it and too slow.
Crouch will be out end of next.
Sloane won't leave early imo. Expect a Scott Thompson final year.
We need to look for a trade for Milera.
Jones is another I would look for a trade.
Sholl will be off to Carlton which I'm fine with.
I would sign up Gollant but I worry he will leave if not signed up next 2 weeks.
I think we will trade Worrell as well.
Strachan might get a better deal elsewhere but I hope he stays. He is 26 so it might be his only chance to get some coin.

Agree with most of this. I'd delist Berg though, there's no point in having him for back up, though he'll play a few good games for another club just as he has from time to time with us and then Kaneo will be up and about our poor list management decision.

I'd like Jones to play a bit higher up the ground, HBF rather than pocket, and play more like Salem, Young (not as good kick as Young) or Hartlett used to for Port. Not all top 10 picks need to be midfielders to be 'successful'.

 

[Mutineer]

Agree with most of this. I'd delist Berg though, there's no point in having him for back up, though he'll play a few good games for another club just as he has from time to time with us and then Kaneo will be up and about our poor list management decision.

I'd like Jones to play a bit higher up the ground, HBF rather than pocket, and play more like Salem, Young (not as good kick as Young) or Hartlett used to for Port. Not all top 10 picks need to be midfielders to be 'successful'.

I'd like to have one more throw at the dartboard with Himmelberg and give him a try at CHB even in the SANFL to see what he's got there....Borlase I doubt makes it as a KPD at the next level.

 

[LoBu]

Tom Boyd was worth Ryan Griffin and pick 6 after 1 year in the system. Surely for JHF our first rounder and a player would do it is anyone off limits our only pre-agents are crouch and Doedee. Maybe crouch and a another. But would we say no if they asked for Doedee and our first pick?

Crouch not worth anything to any club but Geelong.

I'd offer one or two of Keays (midfield experience and grunt, strong Vic roots), Jones (Tassie boy) and McAsey (high draft pick to make the fans feel a bit better).

Keep Tommy.

 

[Skippos]

If Tim English re-commits to the dogs, I'd be looking closely at South Aussie Jordan Sweet as a possible ruck recruit for 2024. Will be 26 by round 1 that year. 205cm, mobile and a nice looking kick. If he's stuck behind English for another 4-5 years. Contracted for 2023.

Sweet's problem is lack of talent. He's the perfect backup - can do an ok job if called upon, but not good enough for anyone to want to poach him.

The best ruckmen either dominate the tap or offer some value (whether it’s the extra body at ground level, providing an option around the ground or sitting behind the play and intercepting) around the ground. The great ones do both. The good ones do well in one, and at least try to offer something in the other. The bad ones try to offer something at both, but don’t do well.

Sweet falls into that last category which consigns him to ‘permanent backup’ territory. He’s 24 with 4 years in the system. So what we’re seeing now should be close enough to where he is.

He’s a bad ruckman. Look at these hitout rates
Round 9: Darcy Cameron 57% - Sweet 41%
Round 10: Witts 52% - Sweet 33%

Darcy Cameron is one of the worst ‘hit out’ ruckmen in the comp, too. He goes at 37% this season (despite getting to beat up on the reserve ruck when Grundy was in the team, and since then, he's rucked against a relatively easy batch of rucks) and 33% last season. So that Cameron wiped Sweet is bad. The rucks who sit in a similar hitout rate bracket to Sweet are all pretty good around the ground. Sweet as yet, is not.

If I'm looking for a ruck to come across and be our #2 and push ROB, these would be my candidates (in preferential order) (I think Strachan is fine as a backup, to be fair)

Matt Flynn - seems like Preuss is their preferred and he's far too good around the ground and at the tap to be a backup. Probably dislodgeds ROB
Nick Bryan - jet around the ground. plays like a mid. competitive at the tap for a stringbean
Toby Conway - no chance, unfortunately. Probably becomes Geelong's main man in a year or two
Kieran Briggs - too good to be a third stringer and offers some physicality
Kalin Lane/Max Heath - early signs are positive given they're rakes.

 

[Vader]

Agree with most of this. I'd delist Berg though, there's no point in having him for back up, though he'll play a few good games for another club just as he has from time to time with us and then Kaneo will be up and about our poor list management decision.

I'd like Jones to play a bit higher up the ground, HBF rather than pocket, and play more like Salem, Young (not as good kick as Young) or Hartlett used to for Port. Not all top 10 picks need to be midfielders to be 'successful'.

The reason we keep Berg is that delisting both him & Frampton at the same leaves us desperately short of tall forwards. It leaves us with Walker, Thilthorpe, Fogarty & Gollant. Walker is now a year-to-year proposition, Gollant isn't KPP sized, Fogarty is no certainty to make it (though his last 2 games have been promising), and Thilthorpe is a 2nd year kid who is still growing into his body.

 

[FR0GGY]

I think a casual draft observer would have recognised the exceptional talent Freo have been able to amass the past 6 years. Consider their top end picks each year; not only have they had access to high end talent, but also multiple picks in the top ten on 3 occasions:

2016 - pick 8
2017 - pick 2,5
2018 - pick 17
2019 - pick 7,8,9
2020 - pick 14
2021 - pick 8,10

Compare to Adelaide, they are miles ahead:

2016 - pick 15
2017 - pick 12
2018 - pick 9,16
2019 - pick 6
2020 - pick 2,11
2021 - pick 6

The surprise was that they didn't get it together last year, but Ross the Boss was probably holding them back.

Not disagreeing, but if you eliminate the picks of equivalent number (within 1 pick) you are left with Freo having 3 x pick 8’s and Adelaide pick 12 so effectively 2 top 10 picks more.
This doesn’t account for different strengths of drafts.

 

[safeandsound]

If Tim English re-commits to the dogs, I'd be looking closely at South Aussie Jordan Sweet as a possible ruck recruit for 2024. Will be 26 by round 1 that year. 205cm, mobile and a nice looking kick. If he's stuck behind English for another 4-5 years. Contracted for 2023.

He is an upgrade on ROB .

 

[safeandsound]

I'd like to have one more throw at the dartboard with Himmelberg and give him a try at CHB even in the SANFL to see what he's got there....Borlase I doubt makes it as a KPD at the next level.

Absolutely .... should have been done last year and or this .

Only problem i see is lack of positioning and being out bodied one on one at AFL level but he has reach and it may just force a shift in competitive output .

Worth a crack ... and gives a flexible KPD swingman for list depth at very least .