List Mgmt. 2022 List Management and trading thread

[Scorpus]

I saw this format on the West Coast board and thought it might help understand our current list position

 

[WaynesWorld19]

First round picks we don’t seem to pick anything other than competitiveness. I for the life of me can’t see how Ned got on an AFL list - I appreciate he was tipped to go around 20 - but has no one wood. Not real quick, a below average kick, small, no evasive skills
Jones similar although I can see at least why you would pick him.

It appears that most negative posters are condemning our recruiters off the Jones / Ned selections

You simply cannot make a judgement on McAsey, given his personal circumstances ......I've stated & will stand steadfast, McAsey will end up a good player for the Crows

How about also looking at all the good draft calls .....I understand in a rebuild, supporters want instant success ....it just doesn't happen that way

As has been stated, our senior players in this rebuild have not performed

IMO again, not being a club apologist ....I believe the rebuild is going OK .....all the magnets are there, just development required, and settling a final side .....it's no-where near settled ATM

MELB finished 17th 2 years B4 winning the flag ....not suggesting we're that close at all ....but I am suggesting how important it is for a team to settle, know each other's playing traits, have confidence in each other, for the team to synchronise more .....that doesn't happen with young teams, new players being added

Look at BRIS on the weekend ....6 changes & all of a sudden they look pedestrian ....and get beaten by the worse contested possession side in the AFL

 

[Mutineer]

That just isn’t correct. The “successes” you have highlighted are by no means locked into good long AFL careers. They have shown some signs - I doubt Murray gets a game at anyone bar North and Gollant maybe 2-3 clubs. I would suggest it is easier to get those successes at the later picks - as you are generally selecting an attribute you think could develop (athleticism (Gollant), speed (Newchurch), size(Murray), great kicking skills (Parnell)

First round picks we don’t seem to pick anything other than competitiveness. I for the life of me can’t see how Ned got on an AFL list - I appreciate he was tipped to go around 20 - but has no one wood. Not real quick, a below average kick, small, no evasive skills
Jones similar although I can see at least why you would pick him.
McAsey - for a top 10 pick doesn’t seem to have a one wood either. Just compare to Chapman and Gibcus - even DGB over the last few years

Massive misses that will extend our rebuild by a couple of years


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The Ned McHenry you describe there is not the Ned McHenry I saw play live up close at least a half a dozen times in 2017 & 2018.

Why he has not been given exposure to the midfield is mistifying given when playing 2nd banana to Sam Walsh for the Falcons he was very solid in there. He may not be the quickest player out there but no way is he lacking in evasiveness and his kicking is not below average either.

Edward McHenry Draft Profile

DRAFT ANALYSIS: "A tenacious small midfielder/forward who has great evasion skills."

central.rookieme.com

https://central.rookieme.com/afl/advertise-with-us/

#8​

Edward McHenry​

Height: 176cm
Weight: 71kg
D.O.B: 13-07-2000
DRAFT ANALYSIS: "A tenacious small midfielder/forward who has great evasion skills."
Leagues: Under 18s Championships, NAB League Boys
OVERVIEW
Edward "Ned" McHenry is a player who has not let size get in the way of his AFL dream. There are not too many mid-170cm players who are talked about as first-round prospects, but that is how impressive McHenry has been over the journey. While his size might put some clubs off, like any smaller player coming into AFL draft consideration, McHenry has plenty of impressive traits that catch the eye, and he is certainly going to be a handy pick-up for whichever club decides to draft him. He is smart with the ball in hand, can evade opponents and run all day long with an elite tank, while he can play inside or outside - though he does not mark as much as other midfielders - and he is a profound tackler who loves the defensive side of football as much as the offensive side of football. He will likely fulfil that small forward role at AFL level, providing plenty of defensive pressure, or he could pinch hit on the outside being the player to use the ball going inside 50, however he does have limited speed. Either way, we expect he lands somewhere in the second round.
STRENGTHS

• Evasion
• Tackling
• Decision making
• Clearances
• Endurance
• Team-first approach

McHenry is a player who you would love as your teammate, but hate as your opponent. He has that fiery passion to bleed for the jumper and defend his teammates at all costs. At times it can result in free kicks going the other way, but if there is one player in the draft crop that you can guarantee will fly the flag for a teammate copping attention, that is certainly McHenry. He is not afraid to let an opponent know if they have made a mistake, but he walks the walk as well as talks the talk, running both ways impressively. His massive endurance base - a draft-crop leading 22.2 on the yo-yo test and an impressive 6:11 on the 2km time trial at the National Draft Combine, means he is in the elite echelon of gut-runners and this is the main thing that sets him aside from a lot of the other draftees.
On-field, his evasion, decision making and clearance work helps him have a few tricks he can display, and he has the ability to win the ball at the coal face, then dart out of a stoppage, not through acceleration, but through evasion. With ball-in-hand, McHenry makes good decisions, especially going inside 50, often pulling kicks or putting them in front of his teammates to their advantage. He finished the TAC Cup season with 66.3 per cent by foot and a 12 per cent clanger kick percentage rate, which is solid considering his role. He averaged 4.9 clearances, though that was ultimately diluted by moving around the ground and not being a pure inside midfielder the entire year, same with his tackling. McHenry recorded 5.3 tackles per game in the TAC Cup season playing between midfield and forward, then once he got his chance predominantly forward at the National Under 18 Championships, McHenry doubled that average to easily be the leading tackler from the competition. This is just one area of his team-first approach that he takes to his football and one of the reasons why teammates love to have him on their side and why he will no doubt be a player that future teammates enjoy being around.
IMPROVEMENTS

• Consistency
• Speed

In terms of improvements, there is not a great deal that McHenry does not at least do to an adequate level. He could be more consistent week-to-week, which is something that plagues almost all Under 18s players at some stage. It can depend on his role - whether he is inside, outside or forward, but generally he has some unbelievable games, and then some quiet ones. Case in point was against Calder Cannons in the Wildcard Round, he was a clear best on ground with 20 disposals, six tackles and two goals, more importantly standing up while co-captain Sam Walsh was copping plenty of attention from the opposition that day. The next week in Geelong's elimination final loss to Gippsland Power, he still had 18 disposals and three marks, but his impact on the contest was limited, not hitting the scoreboard and generally being a lot quieter. Secondly, McHenry is not the quickest player out there, which can often be overshadowed by his evasion and endurance, but in terms of acceleration or general speed, McHenry does have an area to build on. It is one of those things that will not be an issue for him with a forward role, but might be the question mark on an outside midfield role.
DRAFT PROJECTION: 15-40
SUMMARY
Ned McHenry is a great player who clubs should not overlook just because of his size. Like any Under 18s player, McHenry has his great games and his quieter games, and he is not the quickest player going around. However, he is the draft crop gut-runner who is a tackling machine with good evasion techniques and decision making, as well as an ability to win clearances and play through the midfield or up forward. He is one of those players that will have a high standard he sets himself, and once he slots into a club at the elite level, expect him to get the absolute most out of himself.

 

[CrowFrenzy]

Ignoring the status of contracts, you could take your pick from the following (trade/retire or delist). All are not, or no longer, capable at the top level:

Himmelberg
Crouch
Brown
Frampton
Davis
Jones
McHenry
Rowe
Murphy
Sloane
Seedsman
Borlase
McPherson
Sholl

There are also huge concerns for the following:

Pedlar
Borlase
McAsey
Newchurch
Strachan
Worrell
Hately

In summary, the list is woeful.

 

[Scorpus]

The Ned McHenry you describe there is not the Ned McHenry I saw play live up close at least a half a dozen times in 2017 & 2018.

Why he has not been given exposure to the midfield is mistifying given when playing 2nd banana to Sam Walsh for the Falcons he was very solid in there. He may not be the quickest player out there but no way is he lacking in evasiveness and his kicking is not below average either.

Edward McHenry Draft Profile

DRAFT ANALYSIS: "A tenacious small midfielder/forward who has great evasion skills."

central.rookieme.com

Advertise with us

#8​

Edward McHenry​

Height: 176cm
Weight: 71kg
D.O.B: 13-07-2000
DRAFT ANALYSIS: "A tenacious small midfielder/forward who has great evasion skills."
Leagues: Under 18s Championships, NAB League Boys
OVERVIEW
Edward "Ned" McHenry is a player who has not let size get in the way of his AFL dream. There are not too many mid-170cm players who are talked about as first-round prospects, but that is how impressive McHenry has been over the journey. While his size might put some clubs off, like any smaller player coming into AFL draft consideration, McHenry has plenty of impressive traits that catch the eye, and he is certainly going to be a handy pick-up for whichever club decides to draft him. He is smart with the ball in hand, can evade opponents and run all day long with an elite tank, while he can play inside or outside - though he does not mark as much as other midfielders - and he is a profound tackler who loves the defensive side of football as much as the offensive side of football. He will likely fulfil that small forward role at AFL level, providing plenty of defensive pressure, or he could pinch hit on the outside being the player to use the ball going inside 50, however he does have limited speed. Either way, we expect he lands somewhere in the second round.
STRENGTHS

• Evasion
• Tackling
• Decision making
• Clearances
• Endurance
• Team-first approach

McHenry is a player who you would love as your teammate, but hate as your opponent. He has that fiery passion to bleed for the jumper and defend his teammates at all costs. At times it can result in free kicks going the other way, but if there is one player in the draft crop that you can guarantee will fly the flag for a teammate copping attention, that is certainly McHenry. He is not afraid to let an opponent know if they have made a mistake, but he walks the walk as well as talks the talk, running both ways impressively. His massive endurance base - a draft-crop leading 22.2 on the yo-yo test and an impressive 6:11 on the 2km time trial at the National Draft Combine, means he is in the elite echelon of gut-runners and this is the main thing that sets him aside from a lot of the other draftees.
On-field, his evasion, decision making and clearance work helps him have a few tricks he can display, and he has the ability to win the ball at the coal face, then dart out of a stoppage, not through acceleration, but through evasion. With ball-in-hand, McHenry makes good decisions, especially going inside 50, often pulling kicks or putting them in front of his teammates to their advantage. He finished the TAC Cup season with 66.3 per cent by foot and a 12 per cent clanger kick percentage rate, which is solid considering his role. He averaged 4.9 clearances, though that was ultimately diluted by moving around the ground and not being a pure inside midfielder the entire year, same with his tackling. McHenry recorded 5.3 tackles per game in the TAC Cup season playing between midfield and forward, then once he got his chance predominantly forward at the National Under 18 Championships, McHenry doubled that average to easily be the leading tackler from the competition. This is just one area of his team-first approach that he takes to his football and one of the reasons why teammates love to have him on their side and why he will no doubt be a player that future teammates enjoy being around.
IMPROVEMENTS

• Consistency
• Speed

In terms of improvements, there is not a great deal that McHenry does not at least do to an adequate level. He could be more consistent week-to-week, which is something that plagues almost all Under 18s players at some stage. It can depend on his role - whether he is inside, outside or forward, but generally he has some unbelievable games, and then some quiet ones. Case in point was against Calder Cannons in the Wildcard Round, he was a clear best on ground with 20 disposals, six tackles and two goals, more importantly standing up while co-captain Sam Walsh was copping plenty of attention from the opposition that day. The next week in Geelong's elimination final loss to Gippsland Power, he still had 18 disposals and three marks, but his impact on the contest was limited, not hitting the scoreboard and generally being a lot quieter. Secondly, McHenry is not the quickest player out there, which can often be overshadowed by his evasion and endurance, but in terms of acceleration or general speed, McHenry does have an area to build on. It is one of those things that will not be an issue for him with a forward role, but might be the question mark on an outside midfield role.
DRAFT PROJECTION: 15-40
SUMMARY
Ned McHenry is a great player who clubs should not overlook just because of his size. Like any Under 18s player, McHenry has his great games and his quieter games, and he is not the quickest player going around. However, he is the draft crop gut-runner who is a tackling machine with good evasion techniques and decision making, as well as an ability to win clearances and play through the midfield or up forward. He is one of those players that will have a high standard he sets himself, and once he slots into a club at the elite level, expect him to get the absolute most out of himself.

Even still, you have to be absolutely elite to get midfield games as a sub 180cm player.

He doesn't have the qualities of, say, Lachie Neale

 

[Mutineer]

Even still, you have to be absolutely elite to get midfield games as a sub 180cm player.

He doesn't have the qualities of, say, Lachie Neale

Very similarly built to Zak Butters who seems to handle it OK in there and I'd guarantee if he broke from a centre clearance he'd spot up a leading forward better than any of our current rotation.

 

[Josh Jenkins #1Fan]

Very similarly built to Zak Butters who seems to handle it OK in there and I'd guarantee if he broke from a centre clearance he'd spot up a leading forward better than any of our current rotation.

I am with you throw him in the middle!!!

 

[GreyCrow]

The middle of what?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Remember when we used to be worried about other clubs poaching our young stars?

 

[1990crow]

The middle of what?

Middle of the bench. Ned is trending to not making it.

 

[1990crow]

Remember when we used to be worried about other clubs poaching our young stars?

Lever, McGovern, Cameron. Good times.
Not so good that.. every time those players chose to leave.

Wonder why?

 

[Danger in Texas]

Very similarly built to Zak Butters who seems to handle it OK in there and I'd guarantee if he broke from a centre clearance he'd spot up a leading forward better than any of our current rotation.

I’m not that down on Ned, but Butters has him well covered for class, composure and consistency of accumulation

 

[1990crow]

I’m not that down on Ned, but Butters has him well covered for class, composure and consistency of accumulation

Comparing Butters to McHenry is ridiculous.

 

[Scorpus]

I’m not that down on Ned, but Butters has him well covered for class, composure and consistency of accumulation

Most small midfielders have either elite disposal, or are elite ball winners. Or both. Ned has neither and his core strength is far too weak to be a ground ball player

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Even still, you have to be absolutely elite to get midfield games as a sub 180cm player.

He doesn't have the qualities of, say, Lachie Neale

Just look at the way Neale is built. He's very chunky. Look at how well his core and legs are built. That combined with a low centre of gravity. It would be hard to tackle a bloke like that effectively.

Ned on the other hand is very slight even after years in the system. Small core and skinny legs. Gets pushed off the ball very easily.

 

[Mutineer]

I’m not that down on Ned, but Butters has him well covered for class, composure and consistency of accumulation

Wouldn't have anything to do with the roles set by the relevant coaching panels?

Nowhere did I compare them other than size/build for midfield btw.

 

[Danger in Texas]

Wouldn't have anything to do with the roles set by the relevant coaching panels?

Nowhere did I compare them other than size/build for midfield btw.

Even without the Butters comparison, Ned probably needs to show more A1 traits if he's going to stand out in the middle as a smaller guy

I actually think his best position might be on a wing, but hard to say where he is in the pecking order for us there. I also think we need a bit of raw speed to match Dawson/Soligo

 

[Sanders]

You looked at WCE’s list profile? Most of their best players are breaking down and/or over 30, and I can’t see those that aren’t (Kelly, Yeo, Barrass, Sheed) as the types to carry them on their back up the ladder. Their young talent’s a bit like ours too, a lot of unknowns and unprovens.

The thing they have going for them is they have a proven good coach

They’re fine, and if you can’t see it yet you will.

 

[Geoffa32]

Let's be honest.

No one on draft night 2018 saw Jones and McHenry as potential elite mids and were excited we drafted them.

180cm ish "mids" who peaked as mids at 17 years of age.


Both of their draft bios read as workman who did ok as kids in the middle through grinding away at it. No standout attributes.





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[Sanders]

You've missed the point entirely ....suggest you study other club's Draft Histories & you'll find we stack up very well

I suggest that’s pure invention and you’re making that up

And that the only reason you’re saying is that because you haven’t looked at other teams drafting.

You’re bluffing and guessing - and it’s obvious too

 

[1970crow]

Given our list profile, if we can’t afford to pay out some lesser contracts then Reid has *ed it up

Sloane is the first player that I'd be moving on, closely followed by Tex. Then I'd start worrying about what's underneath. Our culture is shithouse and as good as these 2 have been, they're beyond putting the club ahead of themselves.

 

[Geoffa32]

You've missed the point entirely ....suggest you study other club's Draft Histories & you'll find we stack up very well

1st Round picks are a lot easier to select .....2nd round onwards more difficult ....and that's the true measure of your recruiting

You also have to look at the Draft quality .....the CoVid Drafts have been very difficult, due to so few games being played .....that's not to say we haven't drafted well, TWT on that

Re MELB ....you realise Gawn was Drafted 13 years ago, in the midst of them tanking & being a complete ****show .....Viney was a father/son

I will say though, MELB were a lot more aggressive with their trading in of May & Lever .....this is the area i'm critical of

Drafting IMO we stack up well .....Trading we're too timid ....sometimes you have to identify the player you want, and get the deal done .....particularly if that player type is not available in the Draft

Oh could we do with an Oliver / Petracca .....they just haven't been within coeee of us ....but great we had a red hot go at JHF at #1

Why is our midfield the worst in the comp if our drafting has been so good?

We haven't drafted a potential elite mid since Danger. Even including BCrouch and Sloane that is a long period of time. Nearly 10 years.


And in that time every other club has drafted one and most two really good/elite mids.

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[WaynesWorld19]

Why is our midfield the worst in the comp if our drafting has been so good?

Because for whatever reason, our current midfield mix is TERRIBLE .....too many of the same type, slow and handball happy .....Crouch throws the balance right out

Hately is NOT a Wingman

Soligo will be a great mid .....Pedlar also ....also can see Cook / Milera as a Mid

Milera has been proven to not be an AFL FWD ....despite where he played at Centrals ....it limits his skillsets

 

[George CantStandYa]

Because for whatever reason, our current midfield mix is TERRIBLE .....too many of the same type, slow and handball happy .....Crouch throws the balance right out

Hately is NOT a Wingman

Soligo will be a great mid .....Pedlar also ....also can see Cook / Milera as a Mid

Milera has been proven to not be an AFL FWD ....despite where he played at Centrals ....it limits his skillsets

How long has Hamish been our recruiter? You’re talking mostly newbies to be our next midfield. Jones and McHenry were drafted as mids and have been flops.

 

[Mutineer]

Let's be honest.

No one on draft night 2018 saw Jones and McHenry as potential elite mids and were excited we drafted them.

180cm ish "mids" who peaked as mids at 17 years of age.


Both of their draft bios read as workman who did ok as kids in the middle through grinding away at it. No standout attributes.





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That's just not correct...Chayce Jones was very well thought of as a likely 1st round draft pick. All Australian at the Nationals, runnner up in the Tasmanian State League off of only 7 games against the men as an 18 year old.

Sure he's failed to live up to it big time but he went pretty close to where he was predicted to go.

Chayce Jones Draft Profile

DRAFT ANALYSIS: "A versatile, speedy player of great character who finds the football and works hard defensively."

central.rookieme.com

 

[Geoffa32]

Because for whatever reason, our current midfield mix is TERRIBLE .....too many of the same type, slow and handball happy .....Crouch throws the balance right out

Hately is NOT a Wingman

Soligo will be a great mid .....Pedlar also ....also can see Cook / Milera as a Mid

Milera has been proven to not be an AFL FWD ....despite where he played at Centrals ....it limits his skillsets

So from 2012 to 2019, which first round draftee should have been an elite mid now?

Gallucci?
Milera?
Jones?
McHenry?
MCrouch?




I will say I do think we may have come out of this dark period and have some potential in Berry, Schoenberg, Rachele, Sog, Hately and maybe Pedlar.

But still, none of these guys, except maybe Rachele are going to be elite. They really are all workman.


Haggis and Co like workman mids. That is what they seem to identify and pick.


Imagine how bad out midfield would be if we didn't move Laird and Brisbane dudnt delist Keayes.

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