List Mgmt. 2022 List Management and trading thread

[Scorpus]

I saw this format on the West Coast board and thought it might help understand our current list position

 

[glengowan]

So hard to tell at this point because 4/5 trades you've suggested, those clubs do not currently hold those picks. Everyone's draft hands will change dramatically, so maybe they do end up with thise picks.

The one club that does is Bulldogs with a 3rd for Rowe, and that pick is North's so it's a start of 3rd round pick (37).

Carlton will likely get a 3rd for Jones as band 5 compensation.

The other thing is I presume Gold Coast are after future picks. It seems like they have some good Academy players for next year, but not many this year and they have a stack of 2nd Rounders. So trading for Future picks might be something we do as well. Who knows how it all works out. Should be a very interesting and important off-season for the Crows. I reckon we have a good solid squad and some depth now (see SANFL results) and need to have collateral to bring in some high-end talent. I don't think we'd miss any of those players that have been suggested for trade, except for perhaps Himmelberg who has proven to be a decent back up if Waker, Fogarty or Thilthorpe aren't playing.

Edit: I just realised I didn't add Himmelberg to that list, but rumoured interest from Freo and out of contract. Might be a late 2nd?

 

[George Kramer]

Then why trade him? Pick 62 from Carlton, 120 points? No thanks.

I bought 1000 shares at $1 each, the price drops to $0.02 each. Should I sell them so I can recoup the $2 or should I just ride out the storm and see if the value rises next year?

Especially if I don't need the $2 as I have plenty of spare cash (i.e. cap space).

List spot and the club wouldn't rate him, why so hard to understand?

 

[Peter Doherty]

The other thing is I presume Gold Coast are after future picks. It seems like they have some good Academy players for next year, but not many this year and they have a stack of 2nd Rounders. So trading for Future picks might be something we do as well. Who knows how it all works out. Should be a very interesting and important off-season for the Crows. I reckon we have a good solid squad and some depth now (see SANFL results) and need to have collateral to bring in some high-end talent. I don't think we'd miss any of those players that have been suggested for trade, except for perhaps Himmelberg who has proven to be a decent back up if Waker, Fogarty or Thilthorpe aren't playing.

Edit: I just realised I didn't add Himmelberg to that list, but rumoured interest from Freo and out of contract. Might be a late 2nd?

I don't think Himmelberg would be worth any pick with points attached.

I think it would be very unlikely a heap of future junk picks for Rankine, in a straight swap gets the deal done. No matter how much they need them, just the optics.

However, if those junk pics are all this year, my preferred option is Brisbane lose this weekend and then their elimination final, they finish with 11.

We trade out all those listed and try for pick 11. We do the Dawson deal of ruling out our first rounder, but we go and get pick 11.

Look at Jack Martin, pick 1 in the mini draft, highly rated, Carlton never offered anything like pick 11. Gold Coast will take it, then move maybe a couple of their 2nd rounders into next year.

It's the absolute dream scenario, taking Rankine with junk picks and keeping our first. So likely won't happen .

 

[StickerMan]

So what are we getting?

McAsey 3rd Rounder > Carlton
Rowe 3rd Rounder > Bulldogs
Sholl 3rd Rounder > Carlton
Crouch 3rd Rounder > North Melb
Frampton 4th Rounder > Collingwood

Does that build us up to enough points to entice Brisbane to trade their 1st Rounder to us?

Hypothetically speaking, looking at the above against what picks are currently on the table for these Clubs

McAsey & Sholl both going to Carlton and they have 11, 29, 62, 65 & 78. Can we package both for pick 29 with 77 going back?

McAsey, Sholl & 77 for pick 29.

Rowe to Bulldogs where they have 10, 28, 37, 64 & 82. 64 seems low, so maybe 37 gets it done with one of our later picks heading the other way. Or, we do Rowe, 23 and 29 (from Carlton) for pick 10? Not sure Carlton go for that idea.

Rowe for pick 37

Crouch to North who have 1, 55, 66 & 73 currently. Their picks are very slim outside of pick one, so there maybe an appetite to entertain a trade for JHF if he is in fact heading home next year when out of contract. Crouch will be viewed as steak knives, but at 27 would be a solid contributor to North's rebuild while the young mids come through. Does North move at JHF for Crouch, 2022 pick 5 & 2023 first round pick.

Frampton to Collingwood who have 14, 42, 46, 48 & 86. Pick 48 would be a win I reckon.

So:
Adelaide Lose:
McAsey
Sholl
Pick 77
Rowe
Crouch
Pick 5
2023 First round
Frampton

Adelaide Gain:
Pick 29
Pick 37
JHF
Pick 48

Leaving our picks at:
23, 29, 37, 48

Then we see if Brisbane do pick 15 for 29 & 37.

29 + 37 = 1136
Pick 15 = 1112

Pick 15 & 2023 Second Rounder for Rankine

So we get Rankine & JHF but our draft hand has only 37, 48 and no picks in the first or second round in 2023.

If we could turn Crouch, Sholl, McAsey, Frampton & Rowe into JHF and Rankine, then we are geniuses!

 

[Vader]

So we could be trading...
Rowe
Crouch
Sholl
(1 of) Himmelberg or Frampton
McAsey

My preferred 3 would be Crouch, Frampton & Rowe.

Why would anyone give us anything for Frampton, when they can have him for free as a DFA? At best, we'd be looking at a token pick in the 4th or 5th rounds, which we would be unlikely to use. Clubs do this to get the player into their system faster, rather than waiting for the lower certainty of the player being delisted (e.g. Adelaide trading for Podsiadly with a pick that was never used).

 

[Peter Doherty]

Then we see if Brisbane do pick 15 for 29 & 37.

29 + 37 = 1136
Pick 15 = 1112

Are you missing a pick or two here? Why would they do it for an extra 24 points?

 

[StickerMan]

Are you missing a pick or two here? Why would they do it for an extra 24 points?

Because they are nice guys

 

[Betts are off]

Hypothetically speaking, looking at the above against what picks are currently on the table for these Clubs

McAsey & Sholl both going to Carlton and they have 11, 29, 62, 65 & 78. Can we package both for pick 29 with 77 going back?

McAsey, Sholl & 77 for pick 29.

Rowe to Bulldogs where they have 10, 28, 37, 64 & 82. 64 seems low, so maybe 37 gets it done with one of our later picks heading the other way. Or, we do Rowe, 23 and 29 (from Carlton) for pick 10? Not sure Carlton go for that idea.

Rowe for pick 37

Crouch to North who have 1, 55, 66 & 73 currently. Their picks are very slim outside of pick one, so there maybe an appetite to entertain a trade for JHF if he is in fact heading home next year when out of contract. Crouch will be viewed as steak knives, but at 27 would be a solid contributor to North's rebuild while the young mids come through. Does North move at JHF for Crouch, 2022 pick 5 & 2023 first round pick.

Frampton to Collingwood who have 14, 42, 46, 48 & 86. Pick 48 would be a win I reckon.

So:
Adelaide Lose:
McAsey
Sholl
Pick 77
Rowe
Crouch
Pick 5
2023 First round
Frampton

Adelaide Gain:
Pick 29
Pick 37
JHF
Pick 48

Leaving our picks at:
23, 29, 37, 48

Then we see if Brisbane do pick 15 for 29 & 37.

29 + 37 = 1136
Pick 15 = 1112

Pick 15 & 2023 Second Rounder for Rankine

So we get Rankine & JHF but our draft hand has only 37, 48 and no picks in the first or second round in 2023.

If we could turn Crouch, Sholl, McAsey, Frampton & Rowe into JHF and Rankine, then we are geniuses!

TBH at this point of the rebuild i'm not against having no 1st rounders for a couple of years if we could pull off a godfather move along these lines.

Would give us a good 50 games to build the new nucleus of the side around Berry, Fog, Soligo, Rachele, Thithorpe, Schoenberg, Butts and then potentially Rankine and/or JHF. Also allow some high upside fringe players the ability to work their way up into regular best 22 contention like Worrell, Pedlar, Cook, Gollant and Taylor.

If those 13-14 players are all between 50-125 games at the end of 2024 I think we will have a fairly strong young team with lots team cohesion and plenty of upside!

 

[Play On Advantage]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think clubs were able to trade out both a future 1st and 2nd?

 

[StickerMan]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think clubs were able to trade out both a future 1st and 2nd?

Rules, Schmules.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Why would anyone give us anything for Frampton, when they can have him for free as a DFA? At best, we'd be looking at a token pick in the 4th or 5th rounds, which we would be unlikely to use. Clubs do this to get the player into their system faster, rather than waiting for the lower certainty of the player being delisted (e.g. Adelaide trading for Podsiadly with a pick that was never used).

Yeah, would be a token late pick... I never claimed we would be getting a high end one for Billy!

 

[Mego Red]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think clubs were able to trade out both a future 1st and 2nd?

It has to be approved - whioch isn't IMPOSSIBLE in a scenario where multiple young, early picked players are traded back.

 

[Golumless]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think clubs were able to trade out both a future 1st and 2nd?

Pretty sure you're allowed too, providing you take a 1st round pick every two year or so.

 

[GrommoT]

So what are we getting?

McAsey 3rd Rounder > Carlton
Rowe 3rd Rounder > Bulldogs
Sholl 3rd Rounder > Carlton
Crouch 3rd Rounder > North Melb
Frampton 4th Rounder > Collingwood

Does that build us up to enough points to entice Brisbane to trade their 1st Rounder to us?

Trouble is to use those picks in the draft, Bris would need free list spots for each pick - on top of what they would have. We'd need to trade those picks with other clubs to get better picks, but then lose some value.

 

[Thetrader15]

It has to be approved - whioch isn't IMPOSSIBLE in a scenario where multiple young, early picked players are traded back.

If you're Geelong...but if you are Adelaide...how do you think this will end?

 

[jackster83]

It's going to be interesting from a talls perspective this off season.

Frampton likely to be delisted, and McAsey and Himmelberg linked to other clubs. Borlase unsigned also.

That just leaves Strachan and Gollant (more of a third tall anyway) as depth.

If pick five goes to the Suns on Rankine, that leaves us with a number of spots to fill and bugger all draft currency (especially as we also need to find points for MM) other than our second round pick.

We might have to go down the DFA or bargain bin path for some depth.

 

[StickerMan]

Trouble is to use those picks in the draft, Bris would need free list spots for each pick - on top of what they would have. We'd need to trade those picks with other clubs to get better picks, but then lose some value.

The idea being that Brisbane use these picks to match for Ashcroft. So no list spaces required.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I don’t know why people are getting excited re a trade bounty for Rowe

I’d tip that the bulldogs are looking at him as a delisted FA

Anything we get for him is a bonus

Mcasey for 3rd rounder seems right but maybe we can something better if we hold out a little ( he’s under contract )

 

[Jeffcrowe]

It's going to be interesting from a talls perspective this off season.

Frampton likely to be delisted, and McAsey and Himmelberg linked to other clubs. Borlase unsigned also.

That just leaves Strachan and Gollant (more of a third tall anyway) as depth.

If pick five goes to the Suns on Rankine, that leaves us with a number of spots to fill and bugger all draft currency (especially as we also need to find points for MM) other than our second round pick.

We might have to go down the DFA or bargain bin path for some depth.

Might just be me but I think we need to sign up Himmelberg as he’s pretty decent insurance

 

[jackster83]

Might just be me but I think we need to sign up Himmelberg as he’s pretty decent insurance

I think we'd happily give him a one year deal, but other clubs might be willing to offer more.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I think we'd happily give him a one year deal, but other clubs might be willing to offer more.

I’d almost give him 2 , he’s the likely go to if Thilthorpe or ROB get injured next year as that forward / ruck

 

[Vader]

The idea being that Brisbane use these picks to match for Ashcroft. So no list spaces required.

You're missing/misunderstanding the point.

Clubs can only enter the draft with as many picks as they have list vacancies. It's no use Brisbane going into the draft with 6x later round selections, if they only have 3x list vacancies - they would only be allowed to take their first 3x selections into the draft, and the others would be forfeit.

This is part of the reason (along with salary cap) why many clubs opt for 38+6 team lists, instead of 40+4, as it allows them to take an additional 2x picks into the ND which could then be used for points.

 

[Jarman3]

It's going to be interesting from a talls perspective this off season.

Frampton likely to be delisted, and McAsey and Himmelberg linked to other clubs. Borlase unsigned also.

That just leaves Strachan and Gollant (more of a third tall anyway) as depth.

If pick five goes to the Suns on Rankine, that leaves us with a number of spots to fill and bugger all draft currency (especially as we also need to find points for MM) other than our second round pick.

We might have to go down the DFA or bargain bin path for some depth.

I suspect we don't get rid of both Himmelberg AND Frampton. If we trade Himmelberg, we give Frampton 1 more year (possibly delist and redraft / rookie). If we don't trade Himmelberg we give him another 1-2 years and delist Frampton. Either way, I reckon we keep 1 of them for depth.

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

I don’t know why people are getting excited re a trade bounty for Rowe

I’d tip that the bulldogs are looking at him as a delisted FA

Anything we get for him is a bonus

Mcasey for 3rd rounder seems right but maybe we can something better if we hold out a little ( he’s under contract )

we won't delist Rowe unless we get desperate for list spots

 

[LoBu]

So what are we getting?

McAsey 3rd Rounder > Carlton
Rowe 3rd Rounder > Bulldogs
Sholl 3rd Rounder > Carlton
Crouch 3rd Rounder > North Melb
Frampton 4th Rounder > Collingwood

Does that build us up to enough points to entice Brisbane to trade their 1st Rounder to us?

The trick with Brisbane is to trade back with them after they have picked up Ashcroft; but it needs to be fair, or the AFL will veto it;

So we might be able to trade our current second and say Collingwoods' fourth to Brisbane for their second and third next year after they pick Ashcroft, and in return they'll trade their first to us for a reasonable deal, say Carlton, North and Dogs' third in the pre-draft period (or whatever equals their point requirements after discount).