Play Nice 2022 Non AFL Crowds/Ratings/Finance/Development thread

[Bjo187]

So the AFL has increased its revenues by 76 million since 2019 compared to 37 million for the NRL. And the AFL gets a far higher rights increase next year and then an even greater jump in 2025.

This gap isn't closing.

The wealth of the organisations is closing, which is my overall point. The NRL have made more profits than the AFL in the last 10/20 years despite the AFL having 2 billion more in revenue in that time.

 

[Bjo187]

No NRL stories as of right now on the HS website. No AFL stories on the DT also. Lots of articles based on what I like though on both sites.

I have a mate who works at SEN Sydney and he claims they do have AFL content and maybe people aren't listening at the right time. I don't bother with SEN in Melbourne because I don't want to hear just about the Storm. Looking at the ratings for the Sydney version at 0.5 and the Melbourne version at 2.3 I would think most people go elsewhere for sports coverage.

News sources will promote what sells and that's fair enough. Plenty of other options.

Lol your mate is making stuff up. I look at all the sen podcats each day because i pick out interviews to listen to at work. I think when he says 'not listening at the right time', he might be referring to the last 5 months.

 

[Aucklander]

Lol your mate is making stuff up.

Why would an SEN announcer lie?

I look at all the sen podcats each day because i pick out interviews to listen to at work. I think when he says 'not listening at the right time', he might be referring to the last 5 months.

Going on a 0.5 rating I'm not sure anyone is listening.

 

[The Educator]

The wealth of the organisations is closing, which is my overall point. The NRL have made more profits than the AFL in the last 10/20 years despite the AFL having 2 billion more in revenue in that time.

But it's not. You are looking at this very narrowly.

For a start, the AFL clubs have made $250 million in net profits over Covid.

The AFL itself, with the ownership of Docklands and broader net asset position, does not need to make big profits. It is better off reinvesting any additional surplus into its various strategic growth objectives (e.g. northern expansion, women's, media).

The NRL is miles behind on expansion and women's football and has apparently gutted its media arm as part of its cost-cutting and media rights holders placating

It has committed to a massive step change in the NRLW which will still put it way behind the AFLW investment. It will have to deal with the growth pains of introducing a new club (hasn't had to for a long time). It is about to sign a CBA that will likely swallow all of its current surplus, particular given the absolutely moronic strategic move to give the clubs a guaranteed hefty percentage above the salary cap in distributions (which assures the NRL negotiates up against the clubs and players each CBA). All of this, as it faces effectively stagnating broadcast revenues with the AFL as much as $200M ahead each year.

 

[Bjo187]

Why would an SEN announcer lie?



Going on a 0.5 rating I'm not sure anyone is listening.

Because they would be showing their clear bias. Happy for your friend to send through any dates of interviews that have been conducted it the past few months. I mean surely GWS having a new coach, the number 1 pick in the AFL draft and a new captain, that at least one of those guys could have been given even a 5 minute interview on SEN Sydney at some stage.

 

[Bjo187]

But it's not. You are looking at this very narrowly.

For a start, the AFL clubs have made $250 million in net profits over Covid.

The AFL itself, with the ownership of Docklands and broader net asset position, does not need to make big profits. It is better off reinvesting any additional surplus into its various strategic growth objectives (e.g. northern expansion, women's, media).

I would say northern expansion is being considerably compromised by a complete lack of media coverage up there. The women's game has grown, but has overreached significantly, it has created a significant loss for the competition and made the standard of the product unwatchable in many people's eyes. All those millions wasted on having additional teams, players and staff payments, could instead have be utilised in paying for better media promotion of the game in the Northern markets.

The NRL is miles behind on expansion and women's football and has apparently gutted its media arm as part of its cost-cutting and media rights holders placating

I believe this has been successful. It has significantly cut costs, however fox and 9 getting pay off from that has meant they are more invested and promoting the game much more nationally. Especially in Melbourne, i have noticed a major uptick in promotion/media exposure of the NRL since their new tv deal started.

 

[The Educator]

I would say northern expansion is being considerably compromised by a complete lack of media coverage up there. The women's game has grown, but has overreached significantly, it has created a significant loss for the competition and made the standard of the product unwatchable in many people's eyes. All those millions wasted on having additional teams, players and staff payments, could instead have be utilised in paying for better media promotion of the game in the Northern markets.


I believe this has been successful. It has significantly cut costs, however fox and 9 getting pay off from that has meant they are more invested and promoting the game much more nationally. Especially in Melbourne, i have noticed a major uptick in promotion/media exposure of the NRL since their new tv deal started.

Sorry mate but I think there are several gaps in your understanding

The AFLW has taken the plunge and now has 18 teams. The "plunge" was always going to come with short term challenges but in 5 years the competition will have 18 teams that will have been in operation for at least 6 years and players earning more than any other sport beyond handfuls of elite athletes. Promotion is best done through the clubs anyway. Just the fact that Swans now have a team makes the approach superior in terms of northern market exposure than if they had have stuck with 10 teams for a decade

Others have contended your subjective judgement that the NRL is somehow getting a better run than the AFL in the media. Even if that were true, the idea that the NRL is better off without its own digital / media arm and hundreds of millions less in broadcast revenue is obviously ridiculous.

 

[The_Wookie]

I believe this has been successful. It has significantly cut costs, however fox and 9 getting pay off from that has meant they are more invested and promoting the game much more nationally. Especially in Melbourne, i have noticed a major uptick in promotion/media exposure of the NRL since their new tv deal started.

there is not an NRL fan on the planet who would buy this. hell Im not an NRL fan and I dont buy it.

 

[Bjo187]

Sorry mate but I think there are several gaps in your understanding

The AFLW has taken the plunge and now has 18 teams. The "plunge" was always going to come with short term challenges but in 5 years the competition will have 18 teams that will have been in operation for at least 6 years and players earning more than any other sport beyond handfuls of elite athletes. Promotion is best done through the clubs anyway. Just the fact that Swans now have a team makes the approach superior in terms of northern market exposure than if they had have stuck with 10 teams for a decade

The taking the plunge has actually ruined the product though and when nobody is watching the product, it gets barely any media attention, so half the people in the northern markets wouldn't know or care that the swans have an AFLW team anyway. The only positive is grassroots participation has increased, however I still put media penetration above grassroots participation (within reason). Barely anybody plays rugby league at grassroots level these days, it doesn;t matter to tv viewership, because saturation media coverage out of Sydney HQ is more important.

Others have contended your subjective judgement that the NRL is somehow getting a better run than the AFL in the media. Even if that were true, the idea that the NRL is better off without its own digital / media arm and hundreds of millions less in broadcast revenue is obviously ridiculous.

That's ok to contend it, but I have been looking into it for a while and will await hard evidence of these so called sen interviews because i think it's a fallacy. You can check yourself if you like daily over a month or two and come back to me SEN Podcasts

I think the NRL have cut costs by cutting their media arm and get better widespread media since they have done, via both 9 and fox. So effectively more profit in, less money out, better national media coverage. Long term i can see the issues with it, as it's a part of the business that could grow, but short term I think they have benefitted.

On the media rights, im not sure where you are getting that from, that i think they are better off by getting 200mill less annually than the AFL? i think Gill did a great job with that deal, as long as he also negotiated some better coverage from 7 of the game into expanding markets to go along with it, I don;t think you can put a dollar value on how important that is. It's no difference as to why 'advertising' runs the whole media industry, everybody wants their prouduct front and centre in prime time, into their most important markets for a reason and are willing to pay sky high prices to do so.

 

[Teen Wolf]

The taking the plunge has actually ruined the product though and when nobody is watching the product, it gets barely any media attention, so half the people in the northern markets wouldn't know or care that the swans have an AFLW team anyway.

They had eight thousand members in their first year, despite low expectations for on-field competitiveness (that said, several of their games were awesome contests--very easy to tell when somebody is just parroting blind putdowns of da product).

That the ARLC is posting considerable profits yet still aren't close to setting up a semi-pro women's team in Melbourne, a market that has enjoyed great rugby league success for ~25 years now, is woeful self-sabotage.

 

[RedV3x]

The taking the plunge has actually ruined the product

I don't see how.

when nobody is watching the product, it gets barely any media attention,

That applies to all sports; even so there are plenty of AFLW media articles.

so half the people in the northern markets wouldn't know or care that the swans have an AFLW team anyway.

Half the people don't follow sports anyway.
The Swans are a high profile team and most sporting people know the AFL now has the AFLW.
The AFLW is a huge success in Qld and the introduction of the wans AFLW was met with large interest.

The only positive is grassroots participation has increased

"The only positive" ! It's a HUGE positive. it's hard to under estimate the vale of AFLW w.r.t. participation.
that participation has to row interest.

however I still put media penetration above grassroots participation

The end result always has to be participation.
The Swans have succeeded without a whole lot of media attention.

Barely anybody plays rugby league at grassroots level these days,

That's not what the NRL will have you believe.

it doesn;t matter to tv viewership, because saturation media coverage out of Sydney HQ is more important.

More important than what exactly ?

 

[The Educator]

They had eight thousand members in their first year, despite low expectations for on-field competitiveness (that said, several of their games were awesome contests--very easy to tell when somebody is just parroting blind putdowns of da product).

That the ARLC is posting considerable profits yet still aren't close to setting up a semi-pro women's team in Melbourne, a market that has enjoyed great rugby league success for ~25 years now, is woeful self-sabotage.

I think you are dead right there

In terms of the AFLW's actual traction (rather than what naysayers assert), in November the AFLW site had around the same number of visits as the NBL and A Leagues websites combined

 

[Aucklander]

Because they would be showing their clear bias.

Just about 6pm and not a single NRL story on the main page of the HS. Similar bias on the DT. News has an article on Gould and one on Grundy.

Fans of both sports will be smart enough to navigate to the sub-sections of the sports they have an interest in.

 

[Bjo187]

Just about 6pm and not a single NRL story on the main page of the HS. Similar bias on the DT. News has an article on Gould and one on Grundy.

Fans of both sports will be smart enough to navigate to the sub-sections of the sports they have an interest in.

I'll take my months of checking over your one day of checking thanks . Especially considering your profile is all about the nrl.

Also you conveniently missed this one. Better than usual though, only double the amount of nrl to afl at 6 pm Friday 24th Feb 2023. We can take that as a win.

 

[The_Wookie]

given the time frames he gave and the time the story was posted, it may not hve even been there.

 

[Bjo187]

I don't see how.

By the standard being poor.

That applies to all sports; even so there are plenty of AFLW media articles.


Half the people don't follow sports anyway.
The Swans are a high profile team and most sporting people know the AFL now has the AFLW.
The AFLW is a huge success in Qld and the introduction of the wans AFLW was met with large interest.

I agree in QLD afl w has been good. Actually I'm happy for 2 teams each in both those markets, no need for so many of the other 14 clubs at this stage. I think about 10 teams would be about right, then add maybe 2 more, every 3 years.

"The only positive" ! It's a HUGE positive. it's hard to under estimate the vale of AFLW w.r.t. participation.
that participation has to row interest.

I agree participation is a positive, I feel like media penetration is more important though.

The end result always has to be participation.
The Swans have succeeded without a whole lot of media attention.

Exactly my point, imagine where the game would be if it actually got fair media.

That's not what the NRL will have you believe.

More important than what exactly ?

Than participation. Surely soccer is a clear example of that and rugby for that matter. Those leagues have basically died locally with limited media coverage.

 

[RedV3x]

By the standard being poor.

The AFLW has a good standard for AFLW. The AFLW is an AFLW product not a football product.
I don't reject football just because it's not AFL.

I agree in QLD afl w has been good.

AFLW for Qld has been excellent.

Actually I'm happy for 2 teams each in both those markets, no need for so many of the other 14 clubs at this stage. I think about 10 teams would be about right, then add maybe 2 more, every 3 years.

Huh ?

I agree participation is a positive, I feel like media penetration is more important though.

No. Media is important and participation is the desired end result.

Exactly my point, imagine where the game would be if it actually got fair media.

Probably more attendances and more participation with participation and attendances being mutually beneficial.

Surely soccer is a clear example of that and rugby for that matter. Those leagues have basically died locally with limited media coverage.

No. The media reports news. Soccer and rugby have diminished and thus so does the media. It's not the other way around.
That's why minor sports have so much trouble - they don't get media coverage (when they need it most) until they are successful.

 

[Aucklander]

given the time frames he gave and the time the story was posted, it may not hve even been there.

Yep.

Nice story about Britt and Joel on News now. Still no NRL story on the HS. The very same bias continues at the DT.

Out of curiosity, I had a look at Adelaide and Perth news websites and no NRL news. Some would call it bias, I call it giving what the customer would demand.

 

[Bjo187]

Yep.

Nice story about Britt and Joel on News now. Still no NRL story on the HS. The very same bias continues at the DT.

Out of curiosity, I had a look at Adelaide and Perth news websites and no NRL news. Some would call it bias, I call it giving what the customer would demand.

Now you are just being a moron and intentionally trying to cloud the conversation.

That's pretty ordinary from the daily telegraph, 2 afl teams and the swans (the biggest club in Sydney) played a practice game today, zero coverage?

Adelaide and Perth don't have NRL teams, but good try there, why would they report on a sport with zero clubs and near zero participation in their state? It's the same as expecting to see an AFL article in the Auckland times.

Maybe jump back on league unlimited, they'll eat your 5 mins of research up over there.

 

[Aucklander]

Now you are just being a moron and intentionally trying to cloud the conversation.

That's pretty ordinary from the daily telegraph, 2 afl teams and the swans played a practice game today.

Adelaide and Perth don't have NRL teams, but good try there.

Maybe jump back in league unlimited they'll eat your 5 mins of research up.

I haven't called you names, so there's no need to be abusive.

You've made statements and I've simply refuted them with facts that don't suit your argument/agenda and not on 5 minutes of research, but 24 years of living it. Even The_Wookie thinks you're wrong.

 

[The_Wookie]

Now you are just being a moron and intentionally trying to cloud the conversation.

Drop the insults.

That's pretty ordinary from the daily telegraph, 2 afl teams and the swans (the biggest club in Sydney) played a practice game today, zero coverage?

Adelaide and Perth don't have NRL teams, but good try there, why would they report on a sport with zero clubs and near zero participation in their state? It's the same as expecting to see an AFL article in the Auckland times.

Maybe jump back on league unlimited, they'll eat your 5 mins of research up over there.

I dont think he even posts on leagueunlimited. And you might be surprised at Perths league participation.

 

[Bjo187]

I haven't called you names, so there's no need to be abusive.

You've made statements and I've simply refuted them with facts that don't suit your argument/agenda and not on 5 minutes of research, but 24 years of living it. Even The_Wookie thinks you're wrong.

I said you are being one by cherry picking on one day and being difficult, not that you are one. Wookie always disagrees with me, I wouldn't take that as any validation.

Drop the insults.



I dont think he even posts on leagueunlimited. And you might be surprised at Perths league participation.

I've only ever seen him post nrl stuff on Bigfooty, so I'm sure being that passionate he'd be on an nrl forum of some sort.

 

[Angus Young]

Why is it that AFL fans can have a normal discussion about NRL like adults but NRL fans can't do anything like this when it comes to AFL?

 

[Bjo187]

Aucklander ,there you go mate, just checking and signing off for the night. One article on selwood having a baby, mentioning in there he is his now at storm of course (very important), then your triple up nrl articles. Very important stuff too, Johns has an opinion, Gus sends a text message.

 

[Aucklander]

I said you are being one by cherry picking on one day and being difficult, not that you are one. Wookie always disagrees with me, I wouldn't take that as any validation.

I'm not cherry-picking over 1 day or being difficult. The HS coverage of NRL is like that every day, so I go elsewhere for its coverage. The "bias" among them and the DT goes both ways.

I've only ever seen him post nrl stuff on Bigfooty, so I'm sure being that passionate he'd be on an nrl forum of some sort.

I am on an NRL forum of some sort and you seeing only what you want to see is nothing new among those who engage in code wars.

While you're trawling through News ltd sites on Sunday taking screenshots, I'll be out at Altona for the Footy Nations Cup. On any given Saturday this year, I'll be out watching 2 games of local footy around the Vic metro area and then talking about it for days afterward on BigFooty. Tweeting on behalf of my club. Yes, I will still be watching NRL games, but I'll also be watching AFL games too.

If anyone can understand the frustration of AFL fans in NSW and QLD it's me. At least they've got an incredible administration doing the hard yards that are needed to ensure the code thrives in those states, meanwhile in Victoria......