News 2022 St Kilda Media Thread

[MordySaint]

You keep stating he got awarded a contract based off 1 game. That wouldn't be correct.

We ended up choosing to keep Kent over Lonie as a depth small forward. Would his performance been factoring in when making this decision - of course it would have. All their performances - good and bad - would have been considered. But he didn't walk off the field in rd23 last year and get handed a contract because he played well in that particular game.

Jack Lonie, there's a kid who had talent. What could have been with him

 

[BrutThough]

I was keen to hold on to Seb because he'd been a good player and young. Holding on to a 33 year old guy who hasn't had a run of good footy since 2016 is just silliness. It's not the same equation. The same medical group thought he'd be right to play every other year and they were wrong. I don't understand why anyone could think he is worth persisting with.

If they think Hanners can contribute more next year around the club than rookie pick 48, what's the harm in giving him a low wage rookie contract?

I don't really care either way. If he retires, then congrats on a great career. If he tries one more year, then I hope for his sake he has better luck with his body. It just doesn't seem like something to get worked up over.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

Reminds me of last year when there were a lot of calls to get rid of Seb because he would keep Byrnes and Bytel out of the side. Thankfully the list managers didn't subscribe to that theory.

If we think we are on top of his body, there is no harm giving him a 1 year rookie deal. We have seen he still has the skills and ability at AFL level. As you said, if he plays instead of a kid next year then it is because he is a better player. And if they can't get a game in front of a washed up, one legged Hanners then maybe the kids aren't as good as we think they are .

Excellent point. If they can’t get a game ahead of Hanners maybe they need to work harder

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

For the sake of everyone’s sanity can we please avoid mentioning (soon to be) former player Deano Kent?

What about when he comes in vs Sydney for his 100th game and wins us the game off his own boot getting us into finals? Surely his 10 goals gets him another 10 years

 

[MordySaint]

If they think Hanners can contribute more next year around the club than rookie pick 48, what's the harm in giving him a low wage rookie contract?

I don't really care either way. If he retires, then congrats on a great career. If he tries one more year, then I hope for his sake he has better luck with his body. It just doesn't seem like something to get worked up over.

Just WOW... you think we haven't learnt our lesson

Players like Marshall, Geary ... even dare I say Ginnivan from Collingwood were picked up in the Rookie draft.

This is where astute recruitment teams earn their money, I'd rather a chance on picking up a diamond in the rough than keeping Hanners for another year.

But each to their own, everyone has their own opinion on things.

 

[gringo2011]

Just WOW... you think we haven't learnt our lesson

Players like Marshall, Geary ... even dare I say Ginnivan from Collingwood were picked up in the Rookie draft.

This is where astute recruitment teams earn their money, I'd rather a chance on picking up a diamond in the rough than keeping Hanners for another year.

But each to their own, everyone has their own opinion on things.

Sinclair who is literally now our best player and only star quality came off the rookie list. We have done much better out of the rookie draft than the national draft.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Players who were free agents or rookies.
Geary, Joyce, Wilkie
Lionert, Sharman, Marshall.
Membrey Heath, Hayes,
Campbell. Sinclair. Crouch.

Oops. Forgot Mason Wood

32

Mason Wood

Age

30

Ht

192cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

CL

0.3

2star

D

8.3

2star

K

2.7

1star

HB

5.7

3star

M

1.7

2star

T

1.3

2star

CL

0.0

1star

D

15.8

4star

K

8.6

4star

HB

7.2

5star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.6

3star

.

 

[puppy_dog7]

Sinclair who is literally now our best player and only star quality came off the rookie list. We have done much better out of the rookie draft than the national draft.

maybe if our recruiters were as good at picking the eyes out of the national draft as well as the rookie draft, we wouldn't find ourselves in this current predicament?

We wasted a pick 26 on Allison, who no one expected.

4 of the next 6 picked were
O'driscoll (Freo)
Berry (Adel)
Poulter (Coll)
Gulden (Syd)

All look like they're going to be very good players. Meanwhile Allison cant get a kick at Sandy.

that is our biggest issue.

 

[StCicatriz]

Wouldn’t matter if everyone was still there when that trade happened. Nobody gets held accountable at St Kilda.

exactly

the whole strategy of those at the club is just to talk s**t that will resonate with fans and keep them happy. meanwhile what ever happens happens on field. there is literally no standard or expectation. a litany of excuses or reasons or chest beating.

 

[StCicatriz]

Hannebery was a good idea that didn’t work out. I don’t want to hear the nonsense that it was clear he was finished. Look at his stats in his final year, he was what we needed.

Secondly Paddy getting delisted was what we needed. He was never going to make it at St Kilda and the risk just isn’t worth it. Even now.
The last thing the club needs is Paddy trying to sue them for negligence because he insisted on continuing his career with us.

hanneberry was not a good idea.

some very good intel on here will tell you what sydney thought when that happened. it was foolish and stupid. no two ways about it. they ****ed it.

 

[StCicatriz]

As someone that has warned against just such acts of list vandalism I find it funny that people thought that there was going to a different outcome.

We employed Pelchen who Brereton warned was trading on building the Hawks and Port list. Dermie said it was a lie or at least vastly exaggerated and the real person that did the bulk of the list build was Buckenara.

Dermie slams the 'Pelchen myth'

St Kilda official wouldn't get another job in footy, Dermott Brereton claims

www.afl.com.au

"You've got a bloke who by all records says that he put together the Port Adelaide list, you've got a bloke who said he came to Hawthorn and gave them 'Buddy' Franklin, yet it was Gary Buckenara who did," Brereton said.

"There are a lot of myths in footy, and we're talking about one of them."

"Chris wants to make sure of his job at St Kilda because I guarantee you the word has gone around, he wont get another one elsewhere."

"Thank God for St Kilda, because 17 other clubs are going to win before them," Brereton said.

"They are the most poorly led from the top club.



We decided to bottom out as GC and GWS took most of the talent out of the first rounds for around 4 years.

Our head recruiter was a guy who'd been a line coach under Lyon who left for personal reasons but we employed as the most important person at any club, let alone one planning to bottom out rebuild.

Hindsight is more apt if you couldn't foresee it coming, we nearly planned for failure. Luckily with the equalisation policy of AFL we've never had to be responsible for any of the stupid things we do.

People are big fans of Finnis but he's overseen our worst period of on-field performance in the AFL era. His great legacy is fixing the * up of moving to Seaford.

In 2014, Finnis was charged by St Kilda's board with delivering the 'Road to 2018' roadmap, which directed the AFL team to finish top four by 2018 and win the club's second premiership. Having not met these objectives, Finnis, in 2019, unveiled a new "football strategy" to guide the club through 2022.

Matt Finnis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

100% this

i'm surprised people dont see through the myth that is Finnis.

 

[luca77]

maybe if our recruiters were as good at picking the eyes out of the national draft as well as the rookie draft, we wouldn't find ourselves in this current predicament?

We wasted a pick 26 on Allison, who no one expected.

4 of the next 6 picked were
O'driscoll (Freo)
Berry (Adel)
Poulter (Coll)
Gulden (Syd)

All look like they're going to be very good players. Meanwhile Allison cant get a kick at Sandy.

that is our biggest issue.

I haven't seen a huge amount of Allison, but when I have seen him I can't even imagine what the selectors saw in him.

I think we need to start picking some FIGJAM types. We've got too many self-doubters in our team who go into their shells and drop their heads.

Also, on a different note, the reason coaches said we were hard to play against early in the season was specifically our ball movement. They said when we get it, we're off to the races. What has happened to that? Either the gameplan isn't sustainable over a long season, or we don't have players that can sustain it, or are willing to sustain it - or the coaches themselves have lost sight of what made us good. One thing I've learned over the Richo/Ratts era is that if you're relying on effort and run alone, your performances are going to fluctuate wildly unless you've got a team of competitive beasts.

I guess that brings me back to the FIGJAM types. Gresh is one who always tries to back himself, even when things are against us. Wilkie's getting a decent amount of FIGJAM these days, Sinclair, Ryder, Hanners. Not many others. Collingwood is full of FIGJAMs, and I think that's partly why they could go from the bottom to near the top - they don't doubt that they can.

 

[gringo2011]

I haven't seen a huge amount of Allison, but when I have seen him I can't even imagine what the selectors saw in him.

I think we need to start picking some FIGJAM types. We've got too many self-doubters in our team who go into their shells and drop their heads.

Also, on a different note, the reason coaches said we were hard to play against early in the season was specifically our ball movement. They said when we get it, we're off to the races. What has happened to that? Either the gameplan isn't sustainable over a long season, or we don't have players that can sustain it, or are willing to sustain it - or the coaches themselves have lost sight of what made us good. One thing I've learned over the Richo/Ratts era is that if you're relying on effort and run alone, your performances are going to fluctuate wildly unless you've got a team of competitive beasts.

I guess that brings me back to the FIGJAM types. Gresh is one who always tries to back himself, even when things are against us. Wilkie's getting a decent amount of FIGJAM these days, Sinclair, Ryder, Hanners. Not many others. Collingwood is full of FIGJAMs, and I think that's partly why they could go from the bottom to near the top - they don't doubt that they can.

Bevo tells his players to attack and use their abilities and first instincts. We have a legacy of the opposite under Richo and Ratts seems to have become very defence first focussed and carried that on.

It looked like we started trying to play not to lose in that Melbourne match and never got out of the habit. When we go fast and attack we still look good but then quickly revert to what doesn't work again and again.

Alison was literally off one scratch match and the fact that he'd grown tall quick. It was a really strange pick considering that we had such limited access to that draft. Made no sense at the time.

 

[Ads734]

Many media outlets are now picking this up as a story.

For our greatest Saint to come out with such a scathing assessment of the decision makers at the club should mean something.

Champion Saint clips club over "mind-boggling" McEvoy trade

The blunt appraisal came in the wake of St Kilda's most recent defeat and the ruckman's 250th game.

www.zerohanger.com

In my life of following the Saints, this was perhaps the most bewildering trade that I have ever seen and its no wonder we have a leadership void at the club at the moment.

I don't agree at all, At the time we needed to trade some picks in and he was the only asset we had. Honestly, in another world Acres and Dunstan could;ve been stars for us imo. Espescially the former.

 

[Ads734]

I haven't seen a huge amount of Allison, but when I have seen him I can't even imagine what the selectors saw in him.

I think we need to start picking some FIGJAM types. We've got too many self-doubters in our team who go into their shells and drop their heads.

Also, on a different note, the reason coaches said we were hard to play against early in the season was specifically our ball movement. They said when we get it, we're off to the races. What has happened to that? Either the gameplan isn't sustainable over a long season, or we don't have players that can sustain it, or are willing to sustain it - or the coaches themselves have lost sight of what made us good. One thing I've learned over the Richo/Ratts era is that if you're relying on effort and run alone, your performances are going to fluctuate wildly unless you've got a team of competitive beasts.

I guess that brings me back to the FIGJAM types. Gresh is one who always tries to back himself, even when things are against us. Wilkie's getting a decent amount of FIGJAM these days, Sinclair, Ryder, Hanners. Not many others. Collingwood is full of FIGJAMs, and I think that's partly why they could go from the bottom to near the top - they don't doubt that they can.

Yea GAJ and Pendles are FIGJAM. I'm sorry but the drafting thing is overblown. Development is uch more of an issue. Also you could say we stuffed those picks up. We also got Sharman for freem Wilkie Sincs and Ro

 

[George]

Bevo tells his players to attack and use their abilities and first instincts.

You don't strike me as a banger regular

 

[gringo2011]

You don't strike me as a banger regular

A whatty what what?

 

[George]

A whatty what what?

Bevo goes to the Boundary Hotel, you must have been speaking to him over a beer surely?

* Edit - Pink gin spritz with an umbrella in it

 

[phantom13]

* Edit - Pink gin spritz with an umbrella in it

God tier drink

Apologies, goddess tier drink (that I’m all over)

 

[bergholt]

maybe if our recruiters were as good at picking the eyes out of the national draft as well as the rookie draft, we wouldn't find ourselves in this current predicament?

We wasted a pick 26 on Allison, who no one expected.

4 of the next 6 picked were
O'driscoll (Freo)
Berry (Adel)
Poulter (Coll)
Gulden (Syd)

All look like they're going to be very good players. Meanwhile Allison cant get a kick at Sandy.

that is our biggest issue.

There's two ways to do a draft pick:

1: Pick the obvious player.
2: Pick a guy no-one expected.

Option 2 appeals to recruitment teams that think they're smarter than everyone else. Call it the Boekhorst Trap.

"We can't believe he slipped this far, no idea how everyone else didn't see his amazing athletic qualities and raw potential!"

So you pick Blaine Boekhorst and end up with a dud, instead of grabbing one of the obvious options in Jayden Laverde or Daniel McKenzie, who end up being perfectly serviceable players.

It's double or nothing. Usually your hidden gem was hidden for a reason, and you just haven't worked it out yet because you're not as smart as you think you are.

Unfortunately people who become recruiters want to make option 2 picks to show how smart they are. But not many clubs consistently go option 2 and nail it. Just Sydney and Geelong, I guess. Best way to earn the right to make option 2 picks is to do a good job of your option 1 picks over a long period.

Allison was definitely an option 2 pick. Hopefully Libba has learned from that and he picks the obvious ones for a few more years.

 

[puppy_dog7]

There's two ways to do a draft pick:

1: Pick the obvious player.
2: Pick a guy no-one expected.

Option 2 appeals to recruitment teams that think they're smarter than everyone else. Call it the Boekhorst Trap.

"We can't believe he slipped this far, no idea how everyone else didn't see his amazing athletic qualities and raw potential!"

So you pick Blaine Boekhorst and end up with a dud, instead of grabbing one of the obvious options in Jayden Laverde or Daniel McKenzie, who end up being perfectly serviceable players.

It's double or nothing. Usually your hidden gem was hidden for a reason, and you just haven't worked it out yet because you're not as smart as you think you are.

Unfortunately people who become recruiters want to make option 2 picks to show how smart they are. But not many clubs consistently go option 2 and nail it. Just Sydney and Geelong, I guess. Best way to earn the right to make option 2 picks is to do a good job of your option 1 picks over a long period.

Allison was definitely an option 2 pick. Hopefully Libba has learned from that and he picks the obvious ones for a few more years.

It's all well and good to go option 2 every now and then. But not with a pick in the 20's. And If they're speculative at best, why waste your first pick in a draft on them? you don't see good recruiting teams do that.

 

[gringo2011]

There's two ways to do a draft pick:

1: Pick the obvious player.
2: Pick a guy no-one expected.

Option 2 appeals to recruitment teams that think they're smarter than everyone else. Call it the Boekhorst Trap.

"We can't believe he slipped this far, no idea how everyone else didn't see his amazing athletic qualities and raw potential!"

So you pick Blaine Boekhorst and end up with a dud, instead of grabbing one of the obvious options in Jayden Laverde or Daniel McKenzie, who end up being perfectly serviceable players.

It's double or nothing. Usually your hidden gem was hidden for a reason, and you just haven't worked it out yet because you're not as smart as you think you are.

Unfortunately people who become recruiters want to make option 2 picks to show how smart they are. But not many clubs consistently go option 2 and nail it. Just Sydney and Geelong, I guess. Best way to earn the right to make option 2 picks is to do a good job of your option 1 picks over a long period.

Allison was definitely an option 2 pick. Hopefully Libba has learned from that and he picks the obvious ones for a few more years.

I think he's gone or put on the back burner. Toce is the head of recruiting now.

Looking to see if Libba was still at the club I saw this interesting article.

Have Saints repeated unwanted recruiting history? | Footyology

footyology.com.au

 

[SaintsSeptember]

There's two ways to do a draft pick:

1: Pick the obvious player.
2: Pick a guy no-one expected.

Option 2 appeals to recruitment teams that think they're smarter than everyone else. Call it the Boekhorst Trap.

"We can't believe he slipped this far, no idea how everyone else didn't see his amazing athletic qualities and raw potential!"

So you pick Blaine Boekhorst and end up with a dud, instead of grabbing one of the obvious options in Jayden Laverde or Daniel McKenzie, who end up being perfectly serviceable players.

It's double or nothing. Usually your hidden gem was hidden for a reason, and you just haven't worked it out yet because you're not as smart as you think you are.

Unfortunately people who become recruiters want to make option 2 picks to show how smart they are. But not many clubs consistently go option 2 and nail it. Just Sydney and Geelong, I guess. Best way to earn the right to make option 2 picks is to do a good job of your option 1 picks over a long period.

Allison was definitely an option 2 pick. Hopefully Libba has learned from that and he picks the obvious ones for a few more years.

G'day mate, ...G'day....
How's things at the Whatzits....
Good mate, draft week next week.
Oh yeah, we're probably just going to select those players Knightmare wrote about for our pick.
Yeah , we were going to do that ....but tell you what, ...we might make a grab for THINGO, if we can.
THINGO ya think?..... that guy no-one heard of ....
Yeah ...he's the next big thing.
OK see ya mate.

-PHONE CALL - Hey i just saw the Saints guy...I told him we were going to draft thingo ....phhhhhht (much laughter ).

One week later....
Saints draft THINGO!!!.

( Or Brad Howard, or Ben Long, or ......... )

 

[Hubnester]

Hi guys, I've just shifted the footy chat over to the 2022 General AFL Discussion thread.

 

[boulders]

Players who were free agents or rookies.
Geary, Joyce, Wilkie
Lionert, Sharman, Marshall.
Membrey Heath, Hayes,
Campbell. Sinclair. Crouch.

Oops. Forgot Mason Wood.

Judging by this we've had a better strike rate on free agents & rookies than any picks within the first 50.