List Mgmt. 2022 Trade & List Management Thread

[AnEmptyChair]

GFWS would want Tarryn/Philips/JHF type talent back and you can't blame them.

I do wonder if part of our longer term list build strategy is thinking that a super talented, high pick mid might get squeezed out of the midfield we're building who can then be flipped as part of a bigger deal to get a star player in that fills a need

 

[SonofSamsquanch]

wow my pc freaked out and posted the same post 3 times.
Odd.
sorry for the spam.

 

[The Warlord]

I do wonder if part of our longer term list build strategy is thinking that a super talented, high pick mid might get squeezed out of the midfield we're building who can then be flipped as part of a bigger deal to get a star player in that fills a need

Yeah, I mean, I hope they're not building that way, but I know what you mean.

 

[AnEmptyChair]

Yeah, I mean, I hope they're not building that way, but I know what you mean.

I hope not either because it's hard not to get attached to these guys and I want them all to make it here. It would be a very American-sports (particularly NBA) style thing to do.

 

[Orange Peanut]

I do wonder if part of our longer term list build strategy is thinking that a super talented, high pick mid might get squeezed out of the midfield we're building who can then be flipped as part of a bigger deal to get a star player in that fills a need

Geelong did it with Brent Moloney, which surprised a few at the time. They used his trade to get Ottens, and then won a few flags. I'm with you, hoping we aren't going down that path, but accepting it may turn out to be the best move for us.

 

[Shinboner1]

Elite/Prime Category - IMO Untouchable/Some question marks around age demo:

• Moore
• Haynes
• Lever
• May
• Barrass
• Weitering
• Andrews
• Aliir

Young Up Coming Category - IMO Very difficult/Near impossible to pry out, however would suit age demo perfectly:

• Taylor
• Ballard
• Butts
• Ridley
• Reid (Based on draft position)
• Petty
• Pearce
• Gibcus (Based on draft position)
• Granger-Barrass (Based on draft position)

Young & Unknown - Easiest to pry out, however with far less certainty:

• Nyuon
• Worrell
• McAsey
• Gould

.... It's pretty limited

just draft our own or poach someone from the state leagues.
There's plenty of talent out there

 

[Sphynx]

just draft our own or poach someone from the state leagues.

The problem is, big men take time.

Lever had probably his best season at 25.

Moore is 26 and has broken out for about 2 years etc.

Aliir Aliir with his breakout season at 27.

24-25 is about the time they become established quality players within the comp. Someone like Ben McKay is entering that sweet spot right now and look how much of a slow burn he was initially.

Simpkin would be turning 30 by the time a CHB we drafted now hit his peak and we haven't got one in the door yet. LDU and Thomas in their late 20's. Thats wasting a significant portion of their primes waiting for the development of a key pillar of the side.

Im backing the club regarding drafting 4-5 years of consecutive top mids, but I don't think they just go and draft the best CHB in the draft, they have a window of possibly 2022 of doing that before the recruitment is out of sync with the rest of the list build.

I think they will target quality defenders around the same age as Simpkin, LDU etc at the trade table.

Midfielders contribute at a much higher level far quicker so taking someone like JHF with a 5-6 year gap to Simpkin isn't an issue like taking a CHB is.

 

[HBFlanker]

Not all key defenders started their careers there.

We have a surplus amount of tall young prospects who may struggle to get games in the forwar dhalf or ruck. (Xerri, Edwards, Comben)

I would gamble that one these guys needs to turn themselves into a KPD. Steven May

1

Steven May

Age

32

Ht

193cm

Wt

101kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.7

4star

K

10.5

4star

HB

4.2

3star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.5

3star

MG

307.3

4star

D

15.5

4star

K

12.1

5star

HB

3.4

2star

M

3.4

3star

T

0.5

1star

MG

378.4

5star

D

12.4

4star

K

8.8

4star

HB

3.6

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.8

4star

did it, so did Darcy Moore

30

Darcy Moore

Age

28

Ht

203cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.1

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

169.1

3star

D

13.9

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

0.7

1star

MG

182.0

3star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.2

2star

HB

2.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

87.4

2star

. Its not unachievable.

 

[Shinboner1]

The problem is, big men take time.

Lever had probably his best season at 25.

Moore is 26 and has broken out for about 2 years etc.

Aliir Aliir with his breakout season at 27.

24-25 is about the time they become established quality players within the comp. Someone like Ben McKay is entering that sweet spot right now and look how much of a slow burn he was initially.

Simpkin would be turning 30 by the time a CHB we drafted now hit his peak and we haven't got one in the door yet. LDU and Thomas in their late 20's. Thats wasting a significant portion of their primes waiting for the development of a key pillar of the side.

Im backing the club regarding drafting 4-5 years of consecutive top mids, but I don't think they just go and draft the best CHB in the draft, they have a window of possibly 2022 of doing that before the recruitment is out of sync with the rest of the list build.

I think they will target quality defenders around the same age as Simpkin, LDU etc at the trade table.

Midfielders contribute at a much higher level far quicker so taking someone like JHF with a 5-6 year gap to Simpkin isn't an issue like taking a CHB is.

I still reckon there's a plethora of good mature tall talent there in the state leagues.

 

[Sphynx]

I still reckon there's a plethora of good mature tall talent there in the state leagues.

A Tom Stewart is a bit of a 1 in a million.

You can certainly fill out a 2nd or 3rd defender from there, but with McKay being a stopper rather than an interceptor, we need an intercepting CHB.

You don't find elite intercepting defenders in the state leagues and if you do, they go in the top 20 (See Leek Alleer, Harry Taylor etc)

 

[HBFlanker]

What frustrates me is the fact that us promising to retake Polec in the rookie draft effectively cost us Charlie Dean.

Could turn out to be a horror decision.

Dean will play 15+ games for the pies this year.

 

[Psicosis]

A Tom Stewart is a bit of a 1 in a million.

You can certainly fill out a 2nd or 3rd defender from there, but with McKay being a stopper rather than an interceptor, we need an intercepting CHB.

You don't find elite intercepting defenders in the state leagues and if you do, they go in the top 20 (See Leek Alleer, Harry Taylor etc)

When assessing our build, I see far more similarities in the Dogs draft build, then Melbourne. If you look at their core of mids - Libba drafted 2010, Macrae drafted 2012, Bont drafted 2013 etc.

They had a glaring hole in their back half. Keath was traded to the Dogs in 2019. By the time the core of mids played with Keath - Libba was 27, Macrae was 25 & Bont was 24. Ultimately contending & losing the 2021 flag when Libba was 29, Macrae was 27 & Bont 26.

*Purely for arguments sake - Davies-Uniacke = Libba, Thomas = Macrae & JHF = Bont

The equivalent would be us waiting till 2026 to trade in a KPD, which albeit not ideal, may work for the dogs if they win a flag in the next 3 years (high possibility IMO). *LDU would be 27, Thomas 26 & JHF 24.

I suppose my point is, that there isn't a massive rush to do a big KPD trade in 2022. We do have time.

 

[Sphynx]

When assessing our build, I see far more similarities in the Dogs draft build, then Melbourne. If you look at their core of mids - Libba drafted 2010, Macrae drafted 2012, Bont drafted 2013 etc.

They had a glaring hole in their back half. Keath was traded to the Dogs in 2019. By the time the core of mids played with Keath - Libba was 27, Macrae was 25 & Bont was 24. Ultimately contending & losing the 2021 flag when Libba was 29, Macrae was 27 & Bont 26.

*Purely for arguments sake - Davies-Uniacke = Libba, Thomas = Macrae & JHF = Bont

The equivalent would be us waiting till 2026 to trade in a KPD, which albeit not ideal, may work for the dogs if they win a flag in the next 3 years (high possibility IMO). *LDU would be 27, Thomas 26 & JHF 24.

I suppose my point is, that there isn't a massive rush to do a big KPD trade in 2022. We do have time.

The obvious difference was the Dogs won a flag when Bont was 21, Macrae 22, Libba 24 etc they have been hot and cold and considered a contender since that point.

They had all won a flag or were in a side considered a contender at the same stage of their careers as Simpkin and LDU are in a rebuilding wooden spooner.

I get what you mean with the Dogs build, but lets be a little bit realistic.

 

[Shinboner1]

What frustrates me is the fact that us promising to retake Polec in the rookie draft effectively cost us Charlie Dean.

Could turn out to be a horror decision.

Dean will play 15+ games for the pies this year.

Not picking Charlie Dean cost us Charlie Dean.
We had pick 1 and a free spot and decided not to use it. Reckon the club knew lunches decision not to play AFL anymore.
Nobody was taking polec off us so could have easily gone Dean and then polec with our 2 picks.
Club clearly just doesn't rate him that much.
Would have like him on the list, were desperate for tall defender depth.

 

[Psicosis]

The obvious difference was the Dogs won a flag when Bont was 21, Macrae 22, Libba 24 etc they have been hot and cold and considered a contender since that point.

They had all won a flag or were in a side considered a contender at the same stage of their careers as Simpkin and LDU are in a rebuilding wooden spooner.

I get what you mean with the Dogs build, but lets be a little bit realistic.

I'm not comparing our group now to what the dogs had when they flagged. I'm comparing us to where they are now vs where I hope we will be in 5 years time.

They're the best example of a midfield first build & trading for need later. You could argue Melbourne also did this, although targeted Lever & May earlier. Hard to know whether the dogs had tried to bring in a high quality KPD earlier, but I suppose there are limited numbers of them going around the league. From our perspective, its going to come down to attracting them & attracting them when you're bottom 4 isn't that easy.

 

[Sphynx]

I'm not comparing our group now to what the dogs had when they flagged. I'm comparing us to where they are now vs where I hope we will be in 5 years time.

They're the best example of a midfield first build & trading for need later. You could argue Melbourne also did this, although targeted Lever & May earlier. Hard to know whether the dogs had tried to bring in a high quality KPD earlier, but I suppose there are limited numbers of them going around the league & attracting them when you're bottom 4 isn't that easy.

With the complete fluke of JUH and Darcy they can afford to be pretty flexible with recruiting mature age KPP's also.

 

[the flying ham]

What frustrates me is the fact that us promising to retake Polec in the rookie draft effectively cost us Charlie Dean.

Could turn out to be a horror decision.

Dean will play 15+ games for the pies this year.

I never understand this logic. We had what, 5 cracks at the draft? And bagged a potential top 20 pick in the mid year, and is still a rookie? Why agonize over some mature ager that all 18 clubs didn't think highly enough to offer a spot on their main list. He might be a great player, but moving polec got us Bergman, who we obviously rated higher than Dean, and any other pick after him in the main and rookie drafts. The other alternative was we kept polec on the main list and didn't get Bergman.

 

[the flying ham]

And Charlie Dean will play 15 games because the pies are woeful.

 

[The Nostradamus]

What frustrates me is the fact that us promising to retake Polec in the rookie draft effectively cost us Charlie Dean.

Could turn out to be a horror decision.

Dean will play 15+ games for the pies this year.

Yeah I would have just paid out Polec

His deal was front ended and it’s not like we are struggling for cap space

 

[HBFlanker]

Yeah I would have just paid out Polec

His deal was front ended and it’s not like we are struggling for cap space

100%.

 

[kaboom kid]

Yeah I would have just paid out Polec

His deal was front ended and it’s not like we are struggling for cap space

I thought you liked Polec?

 

[HBFlanker]

I never understand this logic. We had what, 5 cracks at the draft? And bagged a potential top 20 pick in the mid year, and is still a rookie? Why agonize over some mature ager that all 18 clubs didn't think highly enough to offer a spot on their main list. He might be a great player, but moving polec got us Bergman, who we obviously rated higher than Dean, and any other pick after him in the main and rookie drafts. The other alternative was we kept polec on the main list and didn't get Bergman.

The logic is pretty sound, we desperately need/needed a key back and we didnt get it. To be 100% honest i would have taken Dean in front of Curtis, but obviosuly that remains to be seen.

Its not really a matter of where other clubs rated him, we didnt need to keep Polec, which would have meant we would have got him.

Theres been a lot of chat on here recently about the fact if we draft a key defender this year they will be 5 years behind LDU, Jy, TT etc. Dean would not have been as he is older.

We didn't address the need. If we drafted Dean we wouldnt be chatting about how we can plug a hole at seasons end.

 

[Passmore]

The logic is pretty sound, we desperately need/needed a key back and we didnt get it. To be 100% honest i would have taken Dean in front of Curtis, but obviosuly that remains to be seen.

Its not really a matter of where other clubs rated him, we didnt need to keep Polec, which would have meant we would have got him.

Theres been a lot of chat on here recently about the fact if we draft a key defender this year they will be 5 years behind LDU, Jy, TT etc. Dean would not have been as he is older.

We didn't address the need. If we drafted Dean we wouldnt be chatting about how we can plug a hole at seasons end.

As a mature rookie, there’s also a chance Dean wouldn’t be on the list next year and the hole would still be there.

 

[HBFlanker]

As a mature rookie, there’s also a chance Dean wouldn’t be on the list next year and the hole would still be there.

Absolutely, its the risk you take rookie drafting any player.

Anyway, its done now we cant change it. Im excited about the lads we drafted and am really looking forward to seeing what happens with our drafting/FA approach this year.

 

[Shinboner1]

Yeah I would have just paid out Polec

His deal was front ended and it’s not like we are struggling for cap space

When has it ever happened?