List Mgmt. 2022 Trade Thread - Part III

[gringo2011]

Max king is twice the player mate.

I wasn't comparing them on talent just on conversion.

 

[Sun Ra]

Membrey is 29 at the start of the season next year. He might have one or two more years of reasonable footy maybe, but not any more than that imo.

We don't have many players worth a high first round pick, but he'd be one that is. Also, we have a couple of players that could do his role (maybe not as well, but he can be replaced).

I don't put much value in "Heart and Soul". The idea that the loss of one player is going to shake the foundations of the club is bogus.

Quote re: Membrey - "We don't have many players worth a high first round pick, but he'd be one that is."

You got to be kidding. LOL.

 

[Joffaboy]

Maybe but also remember Petrecca took until he was 24 (the 2020 season) to show he was any good. His output was probably similar to Clark's or even more mediocre.

Having said that Clark for mine has no time left after this season. Its make or break time now

DMAC

To say any young player has had so much time to develop disregards the impact of the covid years.
Clark is only 23, has had 18 months of injury interruption and covid years prior.

A good preseason and a good injury run will see him reach his potential.
Would rather that happen with us.

 

[gringo2011]

I think the some people are forgetting that Clark will be 24 when the season starts. That means he has had 6 years to develop his game to be a established AFL player that was a very high draft pick

We all the talent that he has and yes he has had injuries, but the injuries have been over the last 2 years. He is not a KP player that needs time to develop.

If you look a the track record of drafting these days - 1st year player's come in and make a mark straight away and especially for mids/halfbacks they almost instantly have an impact. You just have to look at our 3 boys as an example.

I think we need to cut our losses with Clark and hope we get a top 15 pick and hit the draft and get a youngster who can come in like Windy/Owens and make an immediate impact to the side.

Maybe the absolute superstars but Sinclair was almost on the chopping block at his age. I'd say Clark was due for his break out season this year but injury hampered his preparation and output. Even experienced players who miss large parts of a season struggle to restart.

You are basically gambling on a kid taken at a pick between 9 and 20 to be better than him and have an instant impact and a higher long term ceiling. Considering how bad we are at drafting over such a long period I'm holding the guy that is already here.


Clark shat on all the new guys at the same age so not a great argument.

Mitchito Owens and Hunter Clark AFL Stats Comparison

Mitchito Owens and Hunter Clark AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

Marcus Windhager and Hunter Clark AFL Stats Comparison

Marcus Windhager and Hunter Clark AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera and Hunter Clark AFL Stats Comparison

Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera and Hunter Clark AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

 

[gringo2011]

Trading out Membrey is a good idea if we are tanking and want to go down the ladder. If we want to win then it's a bad idea.

Or if you are deciding to ground up rebuild properly. You go in and trade out all the older talent and stock up at the draft. Hopefully we aren't at that point and we just want to add a bit of youth to the list. You need some older heads in the side for culture and continuity as well. Membrey looks like the type of guy that would be a great clubman and a solid citizen. Those people are the representatives of the past and bring their work ethic and personality to the side for the youth to model off.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

He's pretty much Max King, has days where he can't miss and others where he invents new ways to miss.

I know what you’re getting at, and I see others have cut you down already, so I won’t go too hard because I value our relationship .

However, I reckon I could kick 25 goals in a team that won 15 games, at least 1/3 on the opposite peg too.

What’s exciting for us is Max is just warming up, whereas Hipwood is redlining his lil 4 cylinder motor already.

 

[Groater]

Quote re: Membrey - "We don't have many players worth a high first round pick, but he'd be one that is."

You got to be kidding. LOL.

You don't think he is, or, do you think we're chock full of talent? I don't see the latter.

Aside from Membrey, I only have Steele, Marshall and King in that echelon.

I don't think the crazy emoji is warranted just because you disagree. Imo you have to trade out quality to get it, and Membrey is probably the most expendable and with the least scope to be in the team for the next flag tilt.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

We would get a better return than if we spend it on players.

We do spend it on players.
We have to spend it on players.
The difference between the min payment for players and the cap is just $600 000. That's as big as a war chest can be.

 

[Sun Ra]

You don't think he is, or, do you think we're chock full of talent? I don't see the latter.

Aside from Membrey, I only have Steele, Marshall and King in that echelon.

I don't think the crazy emoji is warranted just because you disagree. Imo you have to trade out quality to get it, and Membrey is probably the most expendable and with the least scope to be in the team for the next flag tilt.

Membrey will not attract a FRP. Period. Crazy thing to say. That's why.
Late 2nd, early 3rd I would speculate.

 

[Yawkey way]

Membrey will not attract a FRP. Period. Crazy thing to say. That's why.
Late 2nd, early 3rd I would speculate.

It’s all about the picks, just trade you’re best young mid in Clark, trade membrey, trade anybody. You see it’s not about making us better it’s all about impatient posters who will be bored on draft night without more picks.

 

[Barrels]

He's pretty much Max King, has days where he can't miss and others where he invents new ways to miss.

Max’s goalkicking accuracy: 49.1%
Hipwood’s goalkicking accuracy: 50%

Max: 22yrs, 202cm 94kg
Eric: 25yrs, 203cm 92kg

Yeah, they’re pretty similar, but Hipwood’s had an extra few years to iron out the yips… and hasn’t.

We barely want Max kicking at goal to win the game. Why would we want two of that?

 

[Gosaints12]

Haynes & 15 makes a lot more sense than taking on Bowes salary.
Haynes when fit is a star.

Yeah me and mate had an argument over this last night, assuming you can only take one, which is the case for most clubs. He reckons Whitfield over Haynes even with the contract, I reckon Whitfield has more of his prime left, but I’m going with Haynes at 2 more years for less money.

Trade 1:
Brisbane trade: P21 + P34 + P55 + F3, (Bris) + F4, (Geel)
Brisbane receive: P28 + P32 + P45 + P57 + F4, (PA)

Port trade: P57 + P60 + F4, (PA)
Port receive: P55 + F3, (Bris)

St Kilda trade: P28 + P32 + P45
St Kilda receive: P21 + P34 + P60 + F4, (Geel)

Trade 2:
St Kilda trade: P21 + P60 + F3, (STK)
Richmond trade: Graham + P31

Trade 3:
Saints lose = P31 + P34 + F2, (STK) + F4, (Geel)
GWS lose = Haynes + 15 + F2, (Coll) + F4, (GWS)

Leaves Saints with 9 + 15 + 77, (AFL will make sure each club has three picks)

Futures are F1, (STK), F2, (Coll), F4, (GWS), F5, (STK)

Lose Long, but gain Haynes and Cordy, a strong position in this years draft and an uncompromised hand next year.

Take Hotton at 9 and Hayes at 15.


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[Dr Spaceman]

Dmac is a good footballer who when fit is best 22, he was drafted in the twenties and deserved to be.

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[Gosaints12]

If North offered us pick 1 for Windhager would we take it?

They would need to throw in LDU as well for me to take that deal.

No. Not unless Windhager was begging to go, then yes.


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[Saint Shags]

Maybe the absolute superstars but Sinclair was almost on the chopping block at his age. I'd say Clark was due for his break out season this year but injury hampered his preparation and output. Even experienced players who miss large parts of a season struggle to restart.

You are basically gambling on a kid taken at a pick between 9 and 20 to be better than him and have an instant impact and a higher long term ceiling. Considering how bad we are at drafting over such a long period I'm holding the guy that is already here.


Clark shat on all the new guys at the same age so not a great argument.

Mitchito Owens and Hunter Clark AFL Stats Comparison

Mitchito Owens and Hunter Clark AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

Marcus Windhager and Hunter Clark AFL Stats Comparison

Marcus Windhager and Hunter Clark AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera and Hunter Clark AFL Stats Comparison

Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera and Hunter Clark AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

Only one issue with comparing the 4 players is that Hunter has played primarily off of the Half Back flank hasn't he?

Would suggest Windhager has shown in his first year to be ahead of Clark. But that's because he's played primarily in the guts and the last patch as a tagger.

I'm not saying get rid of him. Just making a point.

 

[gringo2011]

I know what you’re getting at, and I see others have cut you down already, so I won’t go too hard because I value our relationship .

However, I reckon I could kick 25 goals in a team that won 15 games, at least 1/3 on the opposite peg too.

What’s exciting for us is Max is just warming up, whereas Hipwood is redlining his lil 4 cylinder motor already.

Completely different players in every way but both have conversion demons. You can see early in a match what kind of day both will have if they miss a set shot. I'm not saying Hipwood is anywhere near the talent of Max. People get a bit precious about some players. It's like calling Jesus a campaigner in a church if there is anything vaguely disparaging written about Max on here.

 

[Gosaints12]

Haynes and 15 and then trade next years first for another first rounder. Hit the draft with 3 picks inside the top 15. A big injection of youth is what we desperately need.

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Not with the crop next year. It’s a bad draft to miss 23.


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[billings2paddy]

Stuff that

King has a hard enough time there with Membrey

We've already got 2 2nd rounders, not sure we are that desperate for another

Much prefer the idea of trying to move up in the draft

Agreed. We need to trade out Membrey as long as we get pick 20 or better. If North want Clark we would need pick 15 or better. We need a core group of at least 12 to 15 players that were all picked up in the firs round of the draft as soon as possible. As long as we trade only 2 older players each year I doubt we will bottom out. This is where North went wrong, they cut too hard. If we cut 2 established older players each year for the next 3 to 4 years I don't think we will drop lower that 12th.

We can also look to increase our draft hand by packaging picks
Brisbane's pick
Imagine a sliding doors moment where we do the bowes trade and Brisbane's pick 15
We would have
7,9,15
For giving up a second rounder and a future second
McKenzie, Buzzlinger ? and whoever we want at 15
King
Clark
Coffield
Nas
Mckenzie
Buzzlinger
pick 15
Owens
Windy

 

[Gosaints12]

Ok final offer: Hunter Clark

11

Hunter Clark

Age

26

Ht

186cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.5

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

8.0

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.3

3star

D

16.0

4star

K

9.6

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.9

4star

D

13.2

4star

K

6.6

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.0

1star

and Marcus Windhager for Eric Hipwood

30

Eric Hipwood

Age

28

Ht

204cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.0

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

2.6

2star

M

3.9

4star

T

1.3

3star

G

1.5

5star

D

11.1

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

2.7

2star

M

4.1

4star

T

1.1

2star

G

1.1

5star

D

10.6

3star

K

8.4

4star

HB

2.2

2star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

2.4

5star

and a future 4th.

No.


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[Sun Ra]

Completely different players in every way but both have conversion demons. You can see early in a match what kind of day both will have if they miss a set shot. I'm not saying Hipwood is anywhere near the talent of Max. People get a bit precious about some players. It's like calling Jesus a campaigner in a church if there is anything vaguely disparaging written about Max on here.

Not at all churches ....... our CEO may be on the board of this one. Any conflict of interest ?

 

[Groater]

It’s all about the picks, just trade you’re best young mid in Clark, trade membrey, trade anybody. You see it’s not about making us better it’s all about impatient posters who will be bored on draft night without more picks.

Pfffft. I didn't say trade Clark, in fact I was responding to Bird Man's comment about finding another way to get a top 15 pick other than trading out Clark.

Graham Wright the other day said that in order to improve the list we need to inject more top end talent via the draft over the next couple of years. Those comments seem to be a little bit different to your "sit tight, she'll be right approach".

 

[gringo2011]

Only one issue with comparing the 4 players is that Hunter has played primarily off of the Half Back flank hasn't he?

Would suggest Windhager has shown in his first year to be ahead of Clark. But that's because he's played primarily in the guts and the last patch as a tagger.

I'm not saying get rid of him. Just making a point.

It's hard to compare any player but tagging is also a similar way to get your hands on the ball because you're getting lead into the action. We really won't know for a few years but usually the players come in and play well in their first year then level off a bit before coming good.

The really rare ones come on super quick. Hayward, Rowbottom and Florrent were a bit like that. Came in looking like they'd be stars, levelled off and it took a few years in the system to find the consistency to become very good players.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Completely different players in every way but both have conversion demons. You can see early in a match what kind of day both will have if they miss a set shot. I'm not saying Hipwood is anywhere near the talent of Max. People get a bit precious about some players. It's like calling Jesus a campaigner in a church if there is anything vaguely disparaging written about Max on here.

Forget campaigner, the f*cker never existed!

I want a lump of a FF so Max can get on his bike, but of course they’re few and far between.

 

[Groater]

I’d rather start to use future picks to get us an extra pick in the first round each year.

You mean just this year right? Each year wouldn't be possible.

 

[Diehard Saint]

You mean just this year right? Each year wouldn't be possible.

Not sure of exact allowances but pretty sure you can trade a future pick for two years in a row. Then if you, for instance, trade out a future second in the third year it’s ok if you trade one back in in the next year’s trade period.

Not sure that makes sense, but someone on here will correct me no doubt.