List Mgmt. 2023 Draft/Trade/FA thread

[Scythe]

Seems a good time to pin this:


OOC players:

• Michael Hibberd (retired)
• Deakyn Smith (delisted)
• Andy Moniz-Wakefield
• Jake Melksham (delisted, will be re-drafted as a rookie)
• Luke Dunstan (retired)
• James Jordon (signed with Sydney as a Free Agent)
• Kye Turner (delisted)

Traded out:

• James Harmes (Bulldogs)
• Brodie Grundy (Sydney)

Traded in:

• Tom Fullarton (Brisbane)
• Jack Billings (St Kilda)
• Shane McAdam (Adelaide)

Drafted:

• Caleb Windsor (Pick 7)
• Koltyn Tholstrup (Pick 13)
• Kynan Brown (Rookie)

 

[Demon 16]

how are casey going to go next year without Jordon, Harmes and Dunstan rocking up for 35 and a goal every week

Even Hibberd and Melk played a lot of Casey games this year.

We are going to need a couple of mature agers to support but hopefully that can be partially done using the Casey list.

 

[Demon 16]

I hope we don't pick up VFL level players for the sake of it, but you really don't want your VFL team getting trounced each week and we look like we will lose a lot of depth this year.

It's a balancing act that you need to get right for the development of your young guys

That Shaun Mannagh for Werribee looks like he’ll get drafted to an AFL list.

I’d be happy if we look at him as he seems like he could be a good fit with a bit of speed and is a goal kicker.

 

[Johnny Karate]

I hope we don't pick up VFL level players for the sake of it, but you really don't want your VFL team getting trounced each week and we look like we will lose a lot of depth this year.

It's a balancing act that you need to get right for the development of your young guys

Maybe Casey can look at some VFL players for their list. The issue with our depth is that it’s been too static for too long with a bunch of guys who get called up to the senior side because they’re classic VFL guns but plodders at AFL level. Much rather see the likes of Taj, Laurie, Howes etc get a crack on the ball and develop into better players rather than Jordan Jones, Harmes and Dunstan racking up the pill with our youth starving on the flanks.

 

[Lord Nev]

Much rather see the likes of Taj, Laurie, Howes etc get a crack on the ball and develop into better players rather than Jordan Jones, Harmes and Dunstan racking up the pill with our youth starving on the flanks.

It's a good point. We used Casey to turn around ANB's career a few years back. He was just about done as an AFL player but they played him as an inside mid at Casey for pretty much a whole season and it changed his game and approach and he went on to become a premiership player whose strengths were those exact things he added.

I'm a fan of Howes, keen to see him get given a shot on the wing next year - partly because I rate him, but also because I felt like Hunter and Langdon got a bit too comfortable in their spots as the year went on. Taj has won me over a lot too, he's really improved.

 

[Bluelegs]

Maybe Casey can look at some VFL players for their list. The issue with our depth is that it’s been too static for too long with a bunch of guys who get called up to the senior side because they’re classic VFL guns but plodders at AFL level. Much rather see the likes of Taj, Laurie, Howes etc get a crack on the ball and develop into better players rather than Jordan Jones, Harmes and Dunstan racking up the pill with our youth starving on the flanks.

Agree with this. How are we expecting to develop anyone at Casey if we keep bringing in mature age plodders who take all the midfield time.

Doesn't really matter if Casey aren't a premiership threat if our younger guys are learning how to play the game.

 

[Topkent]

Agree with this. How are we expecting to develop anyone at Casey if we keep bringing in mature age plodders who take all the midfield time.

Doesn't really matter if Casey aren't a premiership threat if our younger guys are learning how to play the game.

I've always been against gifting games to kids, but does seem like Collingwood basically throw everyone a game or 2 just to see how they go at the level. Feels like we have 10 blokes doing nothing on the list at all times

 

[00Stinger]

Think Ted Richards was pretty injury prone at the dons.

possibly, I can't really remember. I just remember him being pretty shit at Essendon and then a few years later in Sydney he was a bloody gun

 

[omit]

I'm starting to get a bit worried about our midfield depth. Depending on what decisions Harmes and Brayshaw make regarding their future, we might be going from clearly far too many inside mids on the list to absolutely zero back ups.

 

[Ed_Gein]

Hi, what's James Jordan like as a player and his role? I know him by name, but can't say I watched him close enough.

 

[Bluelegs]

I've always been against gifting games to kids, but does seem like Collingwood basically throw everyone a game or 2 just to see how they go at the level. Feels like we have 10 blokes doing nothing on the list at all times

Our team has been way too settled over the past few years. If you're not selected in the first few rounds you can pretty much forget about breaking into our side unless an injury happens. Then we have plenty of role players who spend weeks just going with no legitmate threat of anyone replacing them. No wonder we've had a bunch of our depth trying to move elsewhere.

 

[Topkent]

Our team has been way too settled over the past few years. If you're not selected in the first few rounds you can pretty much forget about breaking into our side unless an injury happens. Then we have plenty of role players who spend weeks just going with no legitmate threat of anyone replacing them. No wonder we've had a bunch of our depth trying to move elsewhere.

Our changes every single week

In or out Jordan/Harmes/Tommo/Brown/Tmac

That's it.

 

[Topkent]

possibly, I can't really remember. I just remember him being pretty s**t at Essendon and then a few years later in Sydney he was a bloody gun

Don't get me wrong he wasn't good at Essendon but I think he was a young key back and then he moved to Roos defensively brilliant swans

 

[stEdy]

Maybe Casey can look at some VFL players for their list. The issue with our depth is that it’s been too static for too long with a bunch of guys who get called up to the senior side because they’re classic VFL guns but plodders at AFL level. Much rather see the likes of Taj, Laurie, Howes etc get a crack on the ball and develop into better players rather than Jordan Jones, Harmes and Dunstan racking up the pill with our youth starving on the flanks.

Yeah, it's not great when you're stuck in a doom-cycle of blokes dominating at Casey but not being good enough at AFL level. But the other thing is, we need players that can play off a flank because with Clarry/Viney/Trac/Brayshaw/Sparrow we have our centre square rotations more or less locked in. Now we're getting into the more arcane debate about whether players should develop in their position they're likely to play at AFL or not, which to me is a hard one and depends case by case.

Taj for example I think will benefit with some midfield minutes as he seems like a quick learner and is getting better year on year. Howes I think definitely should continue to develop on the outside/flank.

I think at this stage it's a net positive that Harmes, Jones and Dunstan will likely all be gone as their AFL potential for various reasons was limited. But we probably need a VFL stalwart or two to share the minutes on the inside, as VFL footy can be pretty taxing and blokes like Taj/Laurie/Howes don't really have super strong bodies yet. If we start getting thumped every week I think is where the development can start stalling. North's VFL team has been shit for years too and their mountain of first round picks have largely stalled, even when they get to play midfield at VFL level.

 

[ZionMig22]

Hi, what's James Jordan like as a player and his role? I know him by name, but can't say I watched him close enough.

Slow Mid with no real penetration with his kicks

Not sure if he get's a game with you mob pending injuries tbh

 

[dazzledavey36]

James Munro has also retired from VFL footy so there'll be certainly midfield minutes available for some of our kids.

 

[Topkent]

I really hope all these inside blokes moving on is a sign we are moving on from this shit game plan

 

[Shadow89]

Hey guys,

Just popping in given the rumour of Port's F1 going to you guys obviously affects us as it would be used in the Sav deal.

Curious as to what you would be giving up to get up to that F1? We had to give up 38, Future 2nd (26), 48, 55 and Future 4th (62), to get up from 38 to 25.

Given Port's F1 could fall anywhere from 10-18, I'd be pretty surprised if the trades of 25 and 33 alone would be enough to move up to what is essentially Pick 14'ish. That would be using Pick 33 alone to move from a mid second to a late first - which based on precedent doesn't get it done.

Given you could get Pick 22 or 30 for Grundy, I'd say it'd be more likely that whichever of those picks you get, would be included as well. So 22, 25 and 33 for 14.

What do you guys think?

 

[Lord Nev]

Hey guys,

Just popping in given the rumour of Port's F1 going to you guys obviously affects us as it would be used in the Sav deal.

Curious as to what you would be giving up to get up to that F1? We had to give up 38, Future 2nd (26), 48, 55 and Future 4th (62), to get up from 38 to 25.

Given Port's F1 could fall anywhere from 10-18, I'd be pretty surprised if the trades of 25 and 33 alone would be enough to move up to what is essentially Pick 14'ish. That would be using Pick 33 alone to move from a mid second to a late first - which based on precedent doesn't get it done.

Given you could get Pick 22 or 30 for Grundy, I'd say it'd be more likely that whichever of those picks you get, would be included as well. So 22, 25 and 33 for 14.

What do you guys think?

From a points value perspective:

Picks 25 and 33 = Pick 12
Picks 22, 25 and 33 = Pick 4

Soooooo........

 

[Shadow89]

From a points value perspective:

Picks 25 and 33 = Pick 12
Picks 22, 25 and 33 = Pick 4

Soooooo........

Points do not play into this, as Port aren't drafting academy players. There's a massive premium paid to move from Pick 25 to Pick 14 - or even Pick 6-8 if Port have a really bad year.

Reverse the scenario and ask yourself if you'd be happy with Melbourne giving up a Future 1st for Picks 25 and 33 - when you have no idea where you'll finish next year. Guarantee it'll be more than that with the level of risk Port would be assuming.

 

[Topkent]

Points do not play into this, as Port aren't drafting academy players. There's a massive premium paid to move from Pick 25 to Pick 14 - or even Pick 6-8 if Port have a really bad year.

Reverse the scenario and ask yourself if you'd be happy with Melbourne giving up a Future 1st for Picks 25 and 33 - when you have no idea where you'll finish next year. Guarantee it'll be more than that with the level of risk Port would be assuming.

Yeah that's a good point. I don't think 25 and 33 alone is worth ports first.

 

[Lord Nev]

Points do not play into this, as Port aren't drafting academy players. There's a massive premium paid to move from Pick 25 to Pick 14 - or even Pick 6-8 if Port have a really bad year.

Reverse the scenario and ask yourself if you'd be happy with Melbourne giving up a Future 1st for Picks 25 and 33 - when you have no idea where you'll finish next year. Guarantee it'll be more than that with the level of risk Port would be assuming.

Not saying it's a trade for points, just using the points value as a rough judge of value. You could make a case for 22 and 33 sure, but 22, 25 and 33 is way overs.

Sydney (picks No.23 and 31) and Melbourne (25 and 33) loom as possible options as clubs with multiple picks this year, while Port could also look at finding a club that has one early second-round pick this year and can throw in a future second-rounder to net the future first-round selection.

 

[Topkent]

Unless port are super confident they get the 2 trades done they want with 25/33 and then in that case keeping 14 might be worthless to them

 

[Shadow89]

Not saying it's a trade for points, just using the points value as a rough judge of value.

Sydney (picks No.23 and 31) and Melbourne (25 and 33) loom as possible options as clubs with multiple picks this year, while Port could also look at finding a club that has one early second-round pick this year and can throw in a future second-rounder to net the future first-round selection.

Yeah understand what you're saying, but it seems like it's just speculation on what they currently have - without any solid evidence of what the full trade would be.

Put it this way, we thought right up until we traded with the Lions, that the trade would be 38, 48, 55 and a Future 4th to move from 38 to 25 - as Lions just needed points for Ashcroft and Fletcher. Nek minnit, our Future 2nd is in there as well, which is essentially the same Pick as the Pick 25 we gave up this year.

Pretty sure Port gave up a lot to move from 14 to 12 in the draft, just to land Sinn. Same with the Hawks and Weddle last year. Premium goes up as the picks get higher and higher. 33 alone to move from 25 to 14...or even 6-8 - would be one of the biggest steals in recent trade memory, haha (obviously not including the Bowes/Pick 7 trade last year).

 

[Bluelegs]

Points do not play into this, as Port aren't drafting academy players. There's a massive premium paid to move from Pick 25 to Pick 14 - or even Pick 6-8 if Port have a really bad year.

Reverse the scenario and ask yourself if you'd be happy with Melbourne giving up a Future 1st for Picks 25 and 33 - when you have no idea where you'll finish next year. Guarantee it'll be more than that with the level of risk Port would be assuming.

It's more about whatever Port need to get their deals over the line and whether we are willing to pay it. The onus will be on them to get the deal done so we're positioned pretty well. Future picks are also unknowns which makes them worth a bit less, Port finished top 4 this year so you assume that the pick is going to be around 14-18. You don't pay overs for a future pick on the basis that you might get something in the top ten.

I suspect it would be something like 25, 32 and Grundy pick for F1 + F3 though.

 

[Shadow89]

Unless port are super confident they get the 2 trades done they want with 25/33 and then in that case keeping 14 might be worthless to them

What's stopping Port just dealing with us or Essendon directly though, if that were the case?

Future 1st for Sav and Future 2nd
Geelong Future 2nd and 43 for BZT
Port Future 2nd and 37 for Soldo
Future 3rd for Sweet

No need for a middle man if only those two picks are involved. Would think there'd have to be more to it, IMO.