Analysis 2023 Draft Watch

[DangerousD]

Can't see it happening, especially for a kid that might struggle in an AFL environment, let alone if he was to stay in WA

Do clubs, players or managers play funny buggers with some of this stuff?

He’s a NGA player so let’s put out some stories to diminish his value.

Would this stuff go on?

 

[Sheephead]

I’m a big fan of Harvey Johnston out of Sandringham. Mid/fwd who hits the scoreboard. Elusive and a good kick.

 

[TerryWallet]

So now, any liking of Collard has to be "hype" huh?

How about, he is getting recognition for ticking off "supposed" barriers to him being a normal 18yo prospect?

He has shown exceptional talent. He has shown fantastic athleticism. He has interviewed impressively. He is legitimately apparently rising into late 1st Round territory.

But don't fall for the hype. Believe the stereotype.

 

[bradfisher14]

So now, any liking of Collard has to be "hype" huh?

How about, he is getting recognition for ticking off "supposed" barriers to him being a normal 18yo prospect?

He has shown exceptional talent. He has shown fantastic athleticism. He has interviewed impressively. He is legitimately apparently rising into late 1st Round territory.

But don't fall for the hype. Believe the stereotype.

I don't appreciate what you are implying here.

My point was that I don't want to trade up ahead of the WA teams to draft Collard when there are players with similar talent in our current range. Using multiple picks to trade up for one player is the risk I was referring to.

Never said anything about any stereotypes. He is clearly a solid prospect who I would love to bring to Carlton. I just don't think we will be able to get him unless we pay significant overs because his draft stock will continue to rise much higher than our current pick.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Yep, kid may turn out a star, but is yet to perform well in a quality contest. We must always factor in the quality, or lack of it, from the opposition. I don’t like coveting WA boys unless they perform at the championships or at league level.

Tholstrup been playing league all year. Edwards has two years of performing on interstate stage and champs. Zakostelsky showed a bit at champs, but his outstanding form has been at colts level. The fact it has been as an undersized ruck mitigates any go slow somewhat. Love Sanchez and O’Driscoll on what they showed at champs, looks like they are made for a higher level. Hardeman and Hall are queries at higher level for mine as is Livingstone. Curtin is a star. There are possibly some hidden gems, but the others around the fringes seem to be buyer beware.

Collard has “wheels” and his skill set could transfer to the higher level. The off field questions pretty much dictate he stays in WA. I don’t totally discount the hype and he may have eastern states suitors, but there are too many red flags for most recruiters.

Every off season this board jumps on to speculative types on the back of very little substance and I find it trying. Why do so many more casual observers gravitate as nauseum to flash and flavour of the month types? Many of the same posters offer go slows on Elijah Hollands whose under age career was light years ahead and has had some very decent moments at top level to date in largely unsuitable roles.

I thoroughly agree a little extra X factor would benefit the team, but in this era players have to build a base around the non negotiables of the game.

I am all over posters talking down our current small forward options. No superstars (yet Motlop and Durdin have time) but they mostly get the job done as a unit despite little continuity. People forget the poor skill set of multi premiership player Jason Castagna at the tigers. Workrate is key. I am actually looking forward to what Jordan Russell can do for structures. It was clear to me that Hansen was more about the bigger picture as senior assistant than refining the forward structures.

It’s not about talking them down from viewpoint at all, I want to see Durdin tried as an on baller next year, and the year after Motlop. They are challenges that should be thrown at them by the coaching group.
I think they’ve got skillsets to be able to do it, just need a bigger fitness base.
The midfield group need to become more dynamic and pacey, if we don’t trade in someone like a Smith then it just has to be found within the current list.

Collard becomes that next small forward to allow the above to happen.


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[Arr0w]

Do clubs, players or managers play funny buggers with some of this stuff?

He’s a NGA player so let’s put out some stories to diminish his value.

Would this stuff go on?

They do to an extent, but not with Collard

 

[TerryWallet]

I don't appreciate what you are implying here.

My point was that I don't want to trade up ahead of the WA teams to draft Collard when there are players with similar talent in our current range. Using multiple picks to trade up for one player is the risk I was referring to.

Never said anything about any stereotypes. He is clearly a solid prospect who I would love to bring to Carlton. I just don't think we will be able to get him unless we pay significant overs because his draft stock will continue to rise much higher than our current pick.

First of all, i didn't quote you. Second of all, i'm generally implying that the stereotype is as much to avoid flash, as it is to avoid interstate, as it is to avoid indigenous interstaters, as it is to avoid anyone with a question mark.

I'm just adding a different perspective to Collard as the alternative narratives keep popping up.

My view also is like yours, that he might now be higher than our range, but i'm still hopeful of maybe snagging him. He's a ripping prospect.

 

[TerryWallet]

It’s not about talking them down from viewpoint at all, I want to see Durdin tried as an on baller next year, and the year after Motlop. They are challenges that should be thrown at them by the coaching group.
I think they’ve got skillsets to be able to do it, just need a bigger fitness base.
The midfield group need to become more dynamic and pacey, if we don’t trade in someone like a Smith then it just has to be found within the current list.

Collard becomes that next small forward to allow the above to happen.


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I also want to see this. I think if Durds is to make it with us he needs to be a genuine rotation mid/forward. I like him, and would like to see his zip introduced this year. Gets the chance and spot that Cuners was given but couldn't grab hold of.

 

[The Bighouse]

Also, I'm not convinced we're looking to trade out our future 1st to move up the board this year, given the AFL's review of drafting father/sons. We may need to hang onto our 2024 1st and 2nd round picks to acquire the Campo twins depending on the changes - so there's a fair chance we go into the 2023 draft with the picks we currently have.

You’d think that 2025 would be the starting point for any adjustments for F/S & Academies etc with draft picks already exchanged but the NGA (pick 40 bid) changes were made within the year of the previous draft post JUH IIRC?

Compensation for FA’s is easily amended with the new CBA / market $$’s but it will be interesting to see what other changes are proposed/implemented.

 

[bluesDeluxe]

I’m a big fan of Harvey Johnston out of Sandringham. Mid/fwd who hits the scoreboard. Elusive and a good kick.

Yes

 

[thylacine60]

they doing the top 10 separately again?

 

[bradfisher14]

First of all, i didn't quote you. Second of all, i'm generally implying that the stereotype is as much to avoid flash, as it is to avoid interstate, as it is to avoid indigenous interstaters, as it is to avoid anyone with a question mark.

I'm just adding a different perspective to Collard as the alternative narratives keep popping up.

My view also is like yours, that he might now be higher than our range, but i'm still hopeful of maybe snagging him. He's a ripping prospect.

Firstly, you did quote my mention of the media hype surrounding Collard.

Secondly, in future I reckon you could add your perspective on draft prospects without implying that other posters are buying into racial stereotypes.

Cheers.

 

[JuddgementDay]

Assuming we stay with #22 and #28, who do we have in this range?

I can see a pattern coming from Austin and co, address an area of need on draft at a time...

This year, it's the mid/ forwards - starting with EHollands
So, we'll probably get a mid/fwd and a small fwd, both with pace and clean disposals - what are our realistic options?

 

[thylacine60]

have genuine confidence that austin and co can turn these mid second round picks into gold...........

 

[thylacine60]

right now and the previous couple of years he is/has been putting the work in on players that will appear in the navy strip in november - something to reflect on for the "should have" crew...........

 

[TerryWallet]

Firstly, you did quote my mention of the media hype surrounding Collard.

Secondly, in future I reckon you could add your perspective on draft prospects without implying that other posters are buying into racial stereotypes.

Cheers.

Today i read 3 posters in 1 hour use the word hype disparagingly toward Collard(they are all entitled to their opinions btw). That's why i put it in quotation marks. I didn't quote any one post in my post, because that can lead them to taking it personally instead of just being my own comment.

There is definately a narrative being put forward about Collard. Not nastily, but definately a narrative in a football sense(which always involves personal lives). I have tried to put forward an alternative view as it seems to be matching up to the evolving reality. That Collard's actions seem to be impressing those that need to be impressed.

 

[reubsblues]

Someone with absolute explosive pace and good footy smarts bobby hill type

 

[The Return of the Paf]

right now and the previous couple of years he is/has been putting the work in on players that will appear in the navy strip in november - something to reflect on for the "should have" crew...........

And birds are green... what's your point?

 

[Coona Blues]

Today i read 3 posters in 1 hour use the word hype disparagingly toward Collard(they are all entitled to their opinions btw). That's why i put it in quotation marks. I didn't quote any one post in my post, because that can lead them to taking it personally instead of just being my own comment.

There is definately a narrative being put forward about Collard. Not nastily, but definately a narrative in a football sense(which always involves personal lives). I have tried to put forward an alternative view as it seems to be matching up to the evolving reality. That Collard's actions seem to be impressing those that need to be impressed.

Hey Terry, the word hype is not disparaging. Harley Reid is very much hyped, Watson is hyped etc etc. Collard does have a bandwagon on this board, if you like.

Offering a measured post that his better performances have been at Colt’s level, which is well behind the level most of the “hyped” players in the draft mix have been participating. Zakostelsky is hyped to a degree, and his performances at Colts level where he has been lauded as best on in finals are arguably above anything Collard has displayed. Collard has potential, as does Zakostelsky and others. I think our greatest need is for a developing young KPD, but would not advocate for trading out F1 to reach for him, as he remains potential.

There have been multiple posters on here who have not seen more than a few seconds of Collard’s highlights, some probably not even that. There are multiple posters making noise about giving away our future first to get above others to draft a player not proven against the best of his age.

You have taken offence at myself and others bringing sanity to the discussion and attempted to paint it as disparaging. Collard is unproven at a quality level, as stated earlier, he may become a star. The suggestion that our club which is only going to have the bare minimum available draft selections for the foreseeable future should offload future draft capital in a manic bid to get at a very subjective, unproven talent is a nonsense. If Collard had the credentials some are pushing, he would be in the top 10 discussions.

If Collard makes our current second pick and Austin and team have done due diligence on him and call his name so be it. I would not favour using our first pick on him, and certainly would not trade out of next year’s draft to reach for him.

Being conservative is not being disparaging. For me, having limited draft capital calls for a more conservative approach. I get the train of thought that having lesser picks means we should reach for hidden treasure, but I cannot support it. We have virtually committed our draft capital next year on the Camporeale twins, and probably just rookie upgrades. We have this year to cover any list NEEDS. Opportunity is going to diminish further when Tassie enters the equation. If we trade up this year, it is certainly not for a speculative small forward. It would be for a midfield or key position prospect.

Our draft needs are IMO
developing KPP, ideally KPD
Midfield capable (genuine or hybrid) due to removing multiple options at season’s end.
Forward line option providing pace, tackling and scoreboard pressure.

I doubt we get to the top 10 by utilising our F1, so favour using the hand we have.
We may use three picks as the media have assumed, but I suspect we will promote two rookies and add a player through to rookie draft or SSP period as a vacancy is created by promoting others.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

I also want to see this. I think if Durds is to make it with us he needs to be a genuine rotation mid/forward. I like him, and would like to see his zip introduced this year. Gets the chance and spot that Cuners was given but couldn't grab hold of.

Hopefully Durdin and Mots are doing multiple laps somewhere like Hollands, Binn’s, Walsh, Cottrell were doing this morning and on a very regular basis…you don’t get super fit without putting in the effort ALL of the time


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[WyntersGame_]

I was impressed with what I saw of Nate Caddy when he played for the Blues VFL team.

At the time he was being talked about as a top 10 draft pick but seems to have fallen away due to injury.

I wouldn't mind taking him at 22 if he's available.

He isn't a perfect need but I think he could be a good third tall option until he develops into a Key Forward.

Any idea of where in the draft he is likely to be picked up now that things have shuffled a bit?

 

[Coona Blues]

Hopefully Durdin and Mots are doing multiple laps somewhere like Hollands, Binn’s, Walsh, Cottrell were doing this morning and on a very regular basis…you don’t get super fit without putting in the effort ALL of the time


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You might need to be more specific with the name Hollands going forward. Assuming Ollie at this stage?

Back in the day would have backed myself to keep up with that bunch, but not for 40 years or so…

 

[Stamos]

I was impressed with what I saw of Nate Caddy when he played for the Blues VFL team.

At the time he was being talked about as a top 10 draft pick but seems to have fallen away due to injury.

I wouldn't mind taking him at 22 if he's available.

He isn't a perfect need but I think he could be a good third tall option until he develops into a Key Forward.

Any idea of where in the draft he is likely to be picked up now that things have shuffled a bit?

Twomey ranked him at 8 last week.
Our only chance of getting Caddy would be to trade for Geelong's pick, but he might be gone before then.

 

[JuddgementDay]

Hey Terry, the word hype is not disparaging. Harley Reid is very much hyped, Watson is hyped etc etc. Collard does have a bandwagon on this board, if you like.

Offering a measured post that his better performances have been at Colt’s level, which is well behind the level most of the “hyped” players in the draft mix have been participating. Zakostelsky is hyped to a degree, and his performances at Colts level where he has been lauded as best on in finals are arguably above anything Collard has displayed. Collard has potential, as does Zakostelsky and others. I think our greatest need is for a developing young KPD, but would not advocate for trading out F1 to reach for him, as he remains potential.

There have been multiple posters on here who have not seen more than a few seconds of Collard’s highlights, some probably not even that. There are multiple posters making noise about giving away our future first to get above others to draft a player not proven against the best of his age.

You have taken offence at myself and others bringing sanity to the discussion and attempted to paint it as disparaging. Collard is unproven at a quality level, as stated earlier, he may become a star. The suggestion that our club which is only going to have the bare minimum available draft selections for the foreseeable future should offload future draft capital in a manic bid to get at a very subjective, unproven talent is a nonsense. If Collard had the credentials some are pushing, he would be in the top 10 discussions.

If Collard makes our current second pick and Austin and team have done due diligence on him and call his name so be it. I would not favour using our first pick on him, and certainly would not trade out of next year’s draft to reach for him.

Being conservative is not being disparaging. For me, having limited draft capital calls for a more conservative approach. I get the train of thought that having lesser picks means we should reach for hidden treasure, but I cannot support it. We have virtually committed our draft capital next year on the Camporeale twins, and probably just rookie upgrades. We have this year to cover any list NEEDS. Opportunity is going to diminish further when Tassie enters the equation. If we trade up this year, it is certainly not for a speculative small forward. It would be for a midfield or key position prospect.

Our draft needs are IMO
developing KPP, ideally KPD
Midfield capable (genuine or hybrid) due to removing multiple options at season’s end.
Forward line option providing pace, tackling and scoreboard pressure.

I doubt we get to the top 10 by utilising our F1, so favour using the hand we have.
We may use three picks as the media have assumed, but I suspect we will promote two rookies and add a player through to rookie draft or SSP period as a vacancy is created by promoting others.

Assuming we don't trade up, who would you pick at #22 and #28 for us?

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

Assuming we don't trade up, who would you pick at #22 and #28 for us?

Charlie Edwards and Zakostesky/Collard please.