List Mgmt. 2023 List Management and Trading (Part 2)

[PeterSalt]

Do you have a link to the article? I can't find anything on Google or the AFL website. Not doubting you, just trying to find the article you referenced.

From the article below:

"For instance, it would have allowed Adelaide to list one of Rory Sloane or Taylor Walker as a veteran for 2024 and opened up another spot on their primary list. The idea was designed to keep veterans in the game without sacrificing a list spot that a youngster may have taken, with the veteran’s full payments still counted in the salary cap."

Roos target pick one, Dee to go on, big Dog to stay

Check out all the latest trade news from around the League

www.afl.com.au

There's a link in the post above

 

[Sanders]

Yes but we’re talking about 1 out of our last 3 off-seasons where we, like every other club, haven’t brought in a big name. IMO the idea our squad next year will be worse off when almost half our best 22 are sub 50 games with plenty of natural development left is reaching.

We are still reliant on our senior players and we’ve just lost 2 of our best 22.

We got 75 goals from Tex

We have needs galore and haven’t made finals in 6 years

The idea that it will just happen is the blueprint for our failures to build in the past.

We have a very small window until Tex retires or someone finally steps up

Structurally McAdam is a big loss

If we fail again next year then I agree scrutiny is deserved. But one underwhelming trade period, considering it has been underwhelming across the league, isn’t panic stations.

I don’t think we have a year to just doodle and wait

By next year, other teams might well be another year in front

We can sit out a year when we’ve finished building. Not when we’ve got plenty still left to go

 

[Eddie Murphy]

We are still reliant on our senior players and we’ve just lost 2 of our best 22.

We got 75 goals from Tex

We have needs galore and haven’t made finals in 6 years

The idea that it will just happen is the blueprint for our failures to build in the past.

We have a very small window until Tex retires or someone finally steps up

Structurally McAdam is a big loss




I don’t think we have a year to just doodle and wait

By next year, other teams might well be another year in front

We can sit out a year when we’ve finished building. Not when we’ve got plenty still left to go

I’d argue Worrell deserves a spot in our 22 over Doedee. Shane I agree hurts but he also only played in 2 wins for the year, he didn’t make an impact on our ladder position. I just look at league wide player movement and I can’t fail Reid for this trade period thus far.

Strategy to target immediate talent is there. I don’t think our list is worse off next year, it’s a shame we couldn’t trade ourselves into a premature window, but considering how dead this trade period has been, that would’ve been a mammoth task I’m not failing Reid over.

 

[fuic08]

Looking at the 2024 list, the following are who I'd like us to be chasing:

Hugh McCluggage (RFA)
Keidean Coleman
Andrew McGrath (RFA)
Max Holmes
Ben Ainsworth (RFA)
Harry Perryman (RFA)
Isaac Cumming (RFA)
Josh Fahey
Sean Darcy (RFA)
Tom Sparrow
Tarryn Thomas
Mattaes Phillipou
James Rowbottom
Will Hayward (RFA)
Liam Duggan (RFA)

Need to be chasing them now though, instead of just before/after they sign a contract.

Coleman or Cumming to replace Brodie Smith please.

Phillipou will be a player too, would love him to come over.

 

[Sanders]

I’d argue Worrell deserves a spot in our 22 over Doedee. Shane I agree hurts but he also only played in 2 wins for the year, he didn’t make an impact on our ladder position. I just look at league wide player movement and I can’t fail Reid for this trade period thus far.

Strategy to target immediate talent is there. I don’t think our list is worse off next year, it’s a shame we couldn’t trade ourselves into a premature window, but considering how dead this trade period has been, that would’ve been a mammoth task I’m not failing Reid over.

Look, I don’t agree but I can at least see where you’re coming from

 

[rabidcrow]

That’s not the point, it’s about identifying a player and thinking ‘gee, we think he’s way more talented than his current club give him credit for, let’s see if we can unlock that potential’

Surely there’s gotta be at least a couple of players that we think that of around the league?

We seem to be split as a board on the obvious one. And as a club don’t seem to be interested in Elijah


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[rabidcrow]

You're correct, he's still on the list at Nth Melbourne but he's fringe. I don't think we'd need to give up much to get him.
Although, with Goldstein leaving Nth Melbourne, maybe Coleman-Jones workload is going to be higher in 2024?!

Didn’t they pay about pick 20 for him? Can’t see them giving up on him too quickly


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[rabidcrow]

Don’t get me wrong, in theory we should be a better side next year. Growth of the players currently on our list should continue to a point where we make the 8. The players we’re losing barely played a season between them, we’ve already covered Doedee’s loss with Worrell, McAdam as a medium forward is a loss that’d I’d like to find a replacement for over the next couple of years (Hayward?) but I don’t think in reality it’ll make a huge difference

The idea that we haven’t had a backup plan beyond targeting seemingly un-gettable players just irks me a little, as has been said we haven’t really upgraded our current-day talent (overall) going into a contention window. Just smells a little of complacency

Would you have chased Harmes or Adams or some of the other names traded? We have enough depth/kids to give a chance in most positions - we need 1/2 more A grade talents

We have chased hard and missed these this year. Hopefully next year we can get two!!

The one bright spot is Port have had to trade their first again next year so have less collateral for any SA lad who does want to come home.


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[rabidcrow]

It’s a tired term because it doesn’t work. It didn’t work before either

You can’t get everything you need by sitting quietly and waiting for your internal shoots to sprout

Didn’t we improve after Danger left without recruiting anyone in?

Clearly organic growth does work - but if we are look to supercharge our rebuild bringing in an A grade talent on top of the internal growth is clearly important - as we have seen in the last two years


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[Apsaalooke]

We seem to be split as a board on the obvious one. And as a club don’t seem to be interested in Elijah


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Either we don’t rate him, not unreasonably after his ordinary year, or he wasn’t interested when we asked.
If it’s the latter, there’s not much value in admitting that if we want to be looked at as a club players want to come to.

And I don’t care if he once supported us or not.

 

[PeterSalt]

Didn’t we improve after Danger left without recruiting anyone in?

Clearly organic growth does work - but if we are look to supercharge our rebuild bringing in an A grade talent on top of the internal growth is clearly important - as we have seen in the last two years


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We were better inspite of Danger leaving, not because he left. We would've been an inherently better team with him

 

[GreyCrow]

The plan for the rebuild as stated by the club is at this stage of the rebuild we would be bringing in quality experienced players rather than the draft, that was the plan for the early part of the rebuild. I’ll repeat, it was the clubs strategy.

What I don’t get is with all the cap space and trade capital, that some are just accepting of a trade period where we are going backwards on quality experience. Oh well, we tried.

Its a well known list management strategy that you target players 18 months out of contract - Yes Mick you were right we did get into Eddies ear but Carlton blew it for the sake of $50k - as alleged

Now I dont know when we tried to get Redman/Cox - but it does seem we asked last year - but the rest seem to be late asks

Petty - we went after a cooked Oliver first so there would have been no money at all for Petty - now maybe he was our target for 2025 but this year feels like a saving face exercise

Oliver - yep we had 2 days to formulate something

I'm unaware of what moves we made to get Day but that he stayed at Hawks says a bit about how he views either club - or maybe its how we viewed Day?

Burgess? I'm not sure he was on our radar at all until GC said ' psst how bout it''

tl:dr the club said we would target established players - our success hinges on a player contracted for 2 years at another club

 

[Danger in Texas]

Would you have chased Harmes or Adams or some of the other names traded? We have enough depth/kids to give a chance in most positions - we need 1/2 more A grade talents

We have chased hard and missed these this year. Hopefully next year we can get two!!

The one bright spot is Port have had to trade their first again next year so have less collateral for any SA lad who does want to come home.


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Not Harmes or Adams types, as they don’t really have room to grow. There’s a number of fringe guys in that 22-25 age bracket that either re-signed, or are moving clubs this year, that could have been potential targets for us

Yeah we have a lot of kids to give chances to, but there’s always the possibility of any player who we bring in leap-frogging the players we currently have. The ‘we have (blank) at home’ attitude isn’t exactly a complete recipe for success

 

[Sanders]

Didn’t we improve after Danger left without recruiting anyone in?

So we wouldn’t have been better if we had?

Interesting

Clearly organic growth does work - but if we are look to supercharge our rebuild bringing in an A grade talent on top of the internal growth is clearly important - as we have seen in the last two years

What was organic about our forward line? Lynch, Betts, Jenkins

 

[Sanders]

We were better inspite of Danger leaving, not because he left. We would've been an inherently better team with him

That it even needs to be said tells you everything

 

[jackster83]

Didn’t we improve after Danger left without recruiting anyone in?

Clearly organic growth does work - but if we are look to supercharge our rebuild bringing in an A grade talent on top of the internal growth is clearly important - as we have seen in the last two years


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We had AA or borderline AA quality players all coming into their prime - Sloane, Talia, Jacobs, Crouch x2, Laird, Smith, etc.

 

[Sanders]

We had AA or borderline AA quality players all coming into their prime - Sloane, Talia, Jacobs, Crouch x2, Laird, Smith, etc.

And we might have gotten over the line with better recruitment and retention

 

[El Doederino]

It’s a tired term because it doesn’t work. It didn’t work before either

You can’t get everything you need by sitting quietly and waiting for your internal shoots to sprout

Indeed. “Organic growth” isn’t a strategy.

If it is your strategy, or more precisely you believe you have the cattle to be successful so not actively recruiting ready made talent, then the strategy should be to trade up the draft ladder and draft for long term success.

Instead we organic growthed into laziness and add terrible draft recruits to a successful team with the end result being once things started to turn, they turned bad quick

 

[El Doederino]

That’s not the point, it’s about identifying a player and thinking ‘gee, we think he’s way more talented than his current club give him credit for, let’s see if we can unlock that potential’

Surely there’s gotta be at least a couple of players that we think that of around the league?

Sounds easy don’t it but by definition it’s a tough ask because you’re counting on being smarter than the current club.

Also, and my main point, I would suggest other clubs would look at our fringe players like Berry, Sholl, Shoenberg, Himmelberg, Strauchan and think that these players could play first team and improve their chances.

We don’t need more Berry’s and Sholls. We actually need to get rid of them.

 

[119others]

Its a well known list management strategy that you target players 18 months out of contract - Yes Mick you were right we did get into Eddies ear but Carlton blew it for the sake of $50k - as alleged

Now I dont know when we tried to get Redman/Cox - but it does seem we asked last year - but the rest seem to be late asks

Petty - we went after a cooked Oliver first so there would have been no money at all for Petty - now maybe he was our target for 2025 but this year feels like a saving face exercise

Oliver - yep we had 2 days to formulate something

I'm unaware of what moves we made to get Day but that he stayed at Hawks says a bit about how he views either club - or maybe its how we viewed Day?

Burgess? I'm not sure he was on our radar at all until GC said ' psst how bout it''

tl:dr the club said we would target established players - our success hinges on a player contracted for 2 years at another club

At last we agree on things. And if you did have an idea, as many others on here can attest, you WOULD know we went as hard as possible at Day. We “didn’t die wondering” from 2 x Club Execs. Not in question. Now ask yourself why a clearly up and coming side with bucketloads of $$ throw around and ask what other key variable may be adversely impacting our ability to successfully chase desired players for the Adelaide Crows

 

[Soggy2112]

Sounds easy don’t it but by definition it’s a tough ask because you’re counting on being smarter than the current club.

Also, and my main point, I would suggest other clubs would look at our fringe players like Berry, Sholl, Shoenberg, Himmelberg, Strauchan and think that these players could play first team and improve their chances.

We don’t need more Berry’s and Sholls. We actually need to get rid of them.

I agree with your point mostly, but I don’t think Berry belongs in that category.

In 2022 he was rated elite for tackling and above average in contested possession and clearance as a second year player.

Good midfields are complemented really well by that kind of player, you can see the impact Libba has at the Dogs and Viney at Melbourne.

I’m not sure you just discard a 3rd year player who has elite traits after one bad year.

 

[El Doederino]

I agree with your point mostly, but I don’t think Berry belongs in that category.

In 2022 he was rated elite for tackling and above average in contested possession and clearance as a second year player.

Good midfields are complemented really well by that kind of player, you can see the impact Libba has at the Dogs and Viney at Melbourne.

I’m not sure you just discard a 3rd year player who has elite traits after one bad year.

Oh I agree about Berry and he is the obvious player who another club would ask the question of.

If he doesn’t get into our team next year, then fair enough he’ll go looking for a new club that will give him that opportunity.

For us, he has Crouch and Laird in the way, and Shoenberg and Taylor among others fighting for that spot too.

 

[Bearded Clam]

I’d argue Worrell deserves a spot in our 22 over Doedee. Shane I agree hurts but he also only played in 2 wins for the year, he didn’t make an impact on our ladder position. I just look at league wide player movement and I can’t fail Reid for this trade period thus far.

Strategy to target immediate talent is there. I don’t think our list is worse off next year, it’s a shame we couldn’t trade ourselves into a premature window, but considering how dead this trade period has been, that would’ve been a mammoth task I’m not failing Reid over.

“Shane I agree hurts but he also only played in 2 wins for the year, he didn’t make an impact on our ladder position”

Really?..

So you dont think having Shane in our side (when we lost that game against the pies by 2 points ) instead of that useless hack Murphy, who barely scraped together 7 possesions, wouldve made a difference..

What about the essendon game? Wouldnt have been better having mcadam in our forward line over this garbage?…



On every single measure.. keeping a spud Murphy and letting go of a talent like Mcadam is just fxxkn dumb list management.

And dont get me started on keeping Sloane over him..

 

[PeterSalt]

“Shane I agree hurts but he also only played in 2 wins for the year, he didn’t make an impact on our ladder position”

Really?..

So you dont think having Shane in our side (when we lost that game against the pies by 2 points ) instead of that useless hack Murphy, who barely scraped together 7 possesions, wouldve made a difference..

What about the essendon game? Wouldnt have been better having mcadam in our forward line over this garbage?…

View attachment 1832950

On every single measure.. keeping a spud Murphy and letting go of a talent like Mcadam is just fxxkn dumb list management.

And dont get me started on keeping Sloane over him..

*4 disposals .. not 7

 

[craig crowing]

Are you going to keep spamming this?

We’re obviously not interested, and it doesn’t seem like many others are either

Wonder what the price will be. Not much I’d guess

Whilst last poster need to respond to as you head for another ban .
But like to note that many of posters on here were keen on Hollands especially when obvious that could be traded for late 2nd round .
Then King on AFL says he will be the bargain buy of trade period with a trade that looks in 3rd round price.
Lot of us thought with picks we had worth a gamble but not happening and time will tell but not sure going to Carlton will be easy to get a run in mid.

 

[MRB37]

No, we've tried to get some key players who would benefit us, not just trade the picks so we can get any old rubbish.

I have absolutely no issues with being a young side that goes back to the draft, IF we can get genuine quality. I'd rather that than be desperately trading for any clapped out piece.

I'd probably be more annoyed at just hitting the draft if we'd gone in with a standard set of picks, but feeling more confident with it based on the fact we have and appear to continually be trying to consolidate those picks as high as we can. 3 top 20 picks, if we could move 14/20 into the top 10 then that's an even better result.