List Mgmt. 2023 List Management and Trading

[Redline]

I agree in general terms .....however take Davis

Davis was an "almost" player ....at anytime you could not be blamed for thinking he could breakout & secure a best 22 spot at any moment

Likewise, some ....lets look at the bulk criticism of Elliot Himmelberg ...plenty wanted him jettisoned, and yet there was always latent talent bubbling just under the surface ....predicated on a very good footy IQ

So the question with some is ...how long do you wait, b4 giving up

The playstation traders would turnover players after 2 years

Half agree with this. Part of job is the identification of players though. Your right some players you have to back in and give time.

I would never have even recruited Davis, I never once thought he would be a decent AFL player

On the flipside Himmleberg could be a good average AFL player still in my mind. The type of player makes a didference. I think there would be a thought that Himmleberg still has as much chance of making it as any pllayer outside the AFL so may as well stick with him.

 

[martyparty]

You don't think the coaches knew what he was/wasn't capable of, having seen him competing against his peers at training?

I really don't understand this fallacy. Just because a player isn't picked at AFL level, supporters think "we'll never know if he could have made it". This is, and always has been, utter garbage. Coaches see the players, at close quarters - and they see them competing against their peers, both at training and in SANFL games. They have an excellent idea of what they are & are not capable of. Nobody should ever conflate supporter ignorance with coaching/selection ignorance, and yet it happens all the time.

Tell this to the people who say that Davis and Rowe were being played to see if they could impress. According to you the coaches should have worked this out at training. Even the commentators knew Rowe wouldn’t be at the Crows this year (listen/watch the Fogarty highlights).

 

[rabidcrow]

Come on. Davis was a known quantity, a not too bad player who everyone, including him, knew was overdue for delisting.

Turner was an unknown quantity at AFL level who was delisted on no evidence at all, and in a rebuilding phase where wins don’t matter. Would he have made it? No one knows.
No wonder he was pissed.

After the bottom out year of 2020 all wins matter. Every win builds confidence and team spirit. Particularly when the great majority of players have played so few games



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[Apsaalooke]

You don't think the coaches knew what he was/wasn't capable of, having seen him competing against his peers at training?

I really don't understand this fallacy. Just because a player isn't picked at AFL level, supporters think "we'll never know if he could have made it". This is, and always has been, utter garbage. Coaches see the players, at close quarters - and they see them competing against their peers, both at training and in SANFL games. They have an excellent idea of what they are & are not capable of. Nobody should ever conflate supporter ignorance with coaching/selection ignorance, and yet it happens all the time.

These are the same coaches who have been bog ordinary at best for years compared to the top teams in team selection, preparation and tactically as shown by our results in the last few years.

So no I don’t don’t have much confidence that they somehow got this one right when they’ve gotten so many other things wrong.

 

[Vader]

These are the same coaches who have been bog ordinary at best for years compared to the top teams in team selection, preparation and tactically as shown by our results in the last few years.

So no I don’t don’t have much confidence that they somehow got this one right when they’ve gotten so many other things wrong.

Our performance for the last few years has had **** all to do with "team selection, preparation and tactically", and everything to do with having the youngest & least experienced list in the competition, as a result of doing the first ground-up rebuild in the club's 30+ year history.

 

[Apsaalooke]

Our performance for the last few years has had **** all to do with "team selection, preparation and tactically", and everything to do with having the youngest & least experienced list in the competition, as a result of doing the first ground-up rebuild in the club's 30+ year history.

Great so the players are no good but the rest of the club are all at the top of their game

 

[AFC979810]

Perfect sub Ben Davis. Versatile , didn’t matter if he didn’t get a game. Provided more opportunity for game time for our younger players in the Sanfl.

That’s how


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You massively over rate SANFL game time. Its a sub standard league and the gap between it and the AFL is massive.

 

[Tex Danger]

I find the ongoing outrage by some over the handling of turner baffling.
Even more so when you factor in our juggle on available list spots and then the fact that no one else picked him up or even has had him as a train o player since.

 

[FR0GGY]

I find the ongoing outrage by some over the handling of turner baffling.
Even more so when you factor in our juggle on available list spots and then the fact that no one else picked him up or even has had him as a train o player since.

So picking an already injured player on a short term contract isn’t baffling?

 

[Tex Danger]

So picking an already injured player on a short term contract isn’t baffling?

It’s not the people criticizing the selection I’m referring to

 

[rabidcrow]

You massively over rate SANFL game time. Its a sub standard league and the gap between it and the AFL is massive.

Exactly. So young players - like Berry early in the year - can get a number of weeks as the number 1 player in their best position - learn how to do it at that level and then step up to the big stuff

Rather than play forward pocket, or be sub and get a quarter, or play at a standard their body isn’t ready for and so they break down.




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[Mutineer]

Exactly. So young players - like Berry early in the year - can get a number of weeks as the number 1 player in their best position - learn how to do it at that level and then step up to the big stuff

Rather than play forward pocket, or be sub and get a quarter, or play at a standard their body isn’t ready for and so they break down.




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Shush you, you talk too much sense for this board...

 

[Vader]

Great so the players are no good but the rest of the club are all at the top of their game [emoji2957]

I didn't say that the players are no good. I said they are young and inexperienced. They are still developing, and are still well short of their full potential. This is what happens when you play a team with 15+ players with less than 50 games each.

The problem here is not the team's performance, it's your completely unrealistic expectations, which are completely divorced from the reality of our team list's demographics.

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[Vader]

So picking an already injured player on a short term contract isn’t baffling?

His selection in the MSD is baffling. His non-selection in our AFL team, once he had been drafted, was not.

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[FR0GGY]

It’s not the people criticizing the selection I’m referring to

But surely once we pick him we should at least see if he’s got anything to offer?

 

[Jeffcrowe]

So picking an already injured player on a short term contract isn’t baffling?

The whole mid season draft work by us was completely baffling from start to finish

Firstly picking an injured player

Then delisting him at first opportunity

It was kind of like a mystery draft where we just plucked someone out of the hat with no planning on why we were doing it

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Exactly. So young players - like Berry early in the year - can get a number of weeks as the number 1 player in their best position - learn how to do it at that level and then step up to the big stuff

Rather than play forward pocket, or be sub and get a quarter, or play at a standard their body isn’t ready for and so they break down.




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Was perfect handling at selection and result speaks for itself

Wouldn’t mind us trying the same thing with Jones next and seeing if he can be a good sanfl midfielder to give him a base to launch from as right now no one knows his best position other than a capable at best shut down small defender

 

[Mutineer]

The whole mid season draft work by us was completely baffling from start to finish

Firstly picking an injured player

Then delisting him at first opportunity

It was kind of like a mystery draft where we just plucked someone out of the hat with no planning on why we were doing it

Everything points to our recruiting staff/scouts not having a lot of input and our SANFL coaching staff having a lot of input.

Still find the Tyler Brown deal surprising too.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

The whole mid season draft work by us was completely baffling from start to finish

Firstly picking an injured player

Then delisting him at first opportunity

It was kind of like a mystery draft where we just plucked someone out of the hat with no planning on why we were doing it

We basically paid for Turner's rehabilitation... truly bizarre!

 

[Truck25]

I didn't say that the players are no good. I said they are young and inexperienced. They are still developing, and are still well short of their full potential. This is what happens when you play a team with 15+ players with less than 50 games each.

The problem here is not the team's performance, it's your completely unrealistic expectations, which are completely divorced from the reality of our team list's demographics.

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Oh Vader, you do say some questionable comments sometimes, but that was the most spot on comment, and it needs to be said to multiple posters on here.

 

[Big Dub]

Was perfect handling at selection and result speaks for itself

Wouldn’t mind us trying the same thing with Jones next and seeing if he can be a good sanfl midfielder to give him a base to launch from as right now no one knows his best position other than a capable at best shut down small defender

I don't mind this approach.

His problem is not getting enough ball. Let him beat up on some 2nd grade players and learn to get 30 disposals a game again. Then give him 3 games at AFL. If he racks up 20-25 disposals a game, leave him in. Otherwise rinse and repeat until he gets there.

 

[Scorpus]

Everything points to our recruiting staff/scouts not having a lot of input and our SANFL coaching staff having a lot of input.

Still find the Tyler Brown deal surprising too.

Yep, we took the guy that cut us up in the SANFL that one time. Seems to be the only thing we considered

 

[Carmo]

I didn't say that the players are no good. I said they are young and inexperienced. They are still developing, and are still well short of their full potential. This is what happens when you play a team with 15+ players with less than 50 games each.

The problem here is not the team's performance, it's your completely unrealistic expectations, which are completely divorced from the reality of our team list's demographics.

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You would think ( actually I don't anymore, I just write heaps of people off on here as will-never-learns but anyway) that with the introduction of hugely talented young teams in GC and GWS that proceeded to get belted for their first few years that
1) full rebuild teams are gonna lose a lot of games no matter how good they may be down the track and
2) drafting is still a pretty uncertain science given the amount of good draft picks that have never made it in both those teams and therefore
3) talent is one thing but development is as important if not more important (and crows have traditionally been good at that).

 

[Tex Danger]

But surely once we pick him we should at least see if he’s got anything to offer?

How many mid season draft picks followed exactly the same path? Plenty I’m sure

Once a player in inside the system there’s plenty of ways to assess them that weren’t available to us when he wasn’t.

 

[Carmo]

Regarding our offseason and the whole turner thing, I think it points towards our offseason this year being far more uncertain than people think.

Lots take it as a given Rankine was always coming. I take it as 50/50 as best. Imagine he didnt come.
Imagine McAsey is still here.
Imagine Seed is good and back playing.
Imagine Sholl went.
Imagine Crouch went.
Imagine Himmelberg went.
Imagine Billy stayed.
If someone bid on Michalanney at say pick 12, would we have matched, probably not, then he wouldn't be on our list.

There is 256 different list combinations just based on these go vs stay possibilities.
I feel for Turner and Rowey, and there was a lot of combos where they stay on, but as it fell, they landed in the reality where they were delisted.