List Mgmt. 2023 List Management thread

[Snuffaluphagus]

Mod notice after Mr Bob did a lot of annoying work in moving days of posts out of here. As we are heading into offseason, this thread is for 2023 list management only. Getting upset on previous trades can be taken to the vent thread. Lets keep this thread on track in the part of the year it's actually relevant

 

[apuchar]

Some kicking doesn't translate to AFL. It's only the opinion of AFL coaches that think that the player you get kicking wise is the player you have when they walk in from the draft. That's why I said skill doesn't change, choosing better options does.

Care to comment on the effective kick stat I posted earlier?

Effective kicking needs to take into consideration the level of if difficulty. He is trying the harder more dangerous kick and it isn't coming off. His dinkies are accurate

 

[Taylor]

Effective kicking needs to take into consideration the level of if difficulty. He is trying the harder more dangerous kick and it isn't coming off. His dinkies are accurate

The little dinkies are the only ones that should risk being ineffective for that stat though too, since I wouldn't want a 40m+ kick going directly to an opposition mark (which would be required for that to be considered ineffective).

So for less than half of the kicks the last couple of weeks to find our targets while all the long ones should be excluded - says to me that the short ones are actually the problem.

Which is what you see at the ground when he turns it over 70m from goal kicking it too loopy into the corridor 25-30m away from him turning over and resulting in scores against.

Obviously all turnovers are the same and I've seen Young, Chapman do this too, but those corridor kicks off half back are the worst place to turn it over again.

If we can find a turnover leading to score launch stat, I think Henry would be high up there in average points conceded for the season.

But again, when that flips because we can take a mark in the corridor the score involvement stat from Henry will totally invert.

 

[apuchar]

It's not exactly a complicated opposition planning to have the zone defense open the space 30m away from Henry and one on one closer to the ball.

I've said it a lot but our talls taking marks in the middle of the ground is what will lead to success, it's because of players like Henry and working within their capabilities. If Darcy, Jackson, Treacy particularly are taking contested marks then we get to start the game at half forward.

Fyfe and Taberner are significant marking power outside the team, working that back in might make for that ball movement problem and making Henry better because of it.

I'm looking at it from a "this is what we have to work with" attitude rather than a "I want more of this very rare and expensive elite attribute" headspace. We are lacking the superstar midfielder right now but I think we have four who would be that as soon as next season so that our current superstar forward can light it up inside fifty.

Tweaks and changes, it can turn very fast.

So your "the kicking from inside mids doesn't matter"has resulted in our bandaid, cop-out kick it to 15metres out from goal and scrap on the ground to kick goals. Do you need a forward coach for that.

 

[Taylor]

So your "the kicking from inside mids doesn't matter"has resulted in our bandaid, cop-out kick it to 15metres out from goal and scrap on the ground to kick goals. Do you need a forward coach for that.

Do you see how a marking tall can make that forward entry into a forward stoppage? Most of the inside mid kicking efficiency issues are because they aren't in a set play, we aren't talking about the mark 60m out from goal looking for a target.

It's why Rory Lobb was useful, if nothing else is immediately available kick it long on top of his head and let him bring it to ground. It's fairly common across the AFL.

But our talls aren't quite there yet, and we tend to put it on top of Michael Walters for some reason.

 

[sumavich]

Some kicking doesn't translate to AFL. It's only the opinion of AFL coaches that think that the player you get kicking wise is the player you have when they walk in from the draft. That's why I said skill doesn't change, choosing better options does.

Care to comment on the effective kick stat I posted earlier?

No, coz they have to be taken in context. At one stage he was our highest possession player yesterday.
Depends on the degree of difficulty! Fyfe's kicking stats have always been used to detract from his performance.
He's one of the best I've ever seen, his kicking not so much.
I've watched Liam since he was at school, he's a very good kick

 

[apuchar]

Do you see how a marking tall can make that forward entry into a forward stoppage? Most of the inside mid kicking efficiency issues are because they aren't in a set play, we aren't talking about the mark 60m out from goal looking for a target.

It's why Rory Lobb was useful, if nothing else is immediately available kick it long on top of his head and let him bring it to ground. It's fairly common across the AFL.

But our talls aren't quite there yet, and we tend to put it on top of Michael Walters for some reason.

But the 4 inside mids who can't kick has basically restricted us to that. It is too one dimensional. We need to add some kicking to our best 22 to give us multiple avenues otherwise we are just going to scramble goals with very little system and will be very easy to stop like we were this week. Taberner won't be able to perform miracles in congestion.

 

[Taylor]

No, coz they have to be taken in context. At one stage he was our highest possession player yesterday.
Depends on the degree of difficulty! Fyfe's kicking stats have always been used to detract from his performance.
He's one of the best I've ever seen, his kicking not so much.
I've watched Liam since he was at school, he's a very good kick

Then why is he turning the ball over so much?

 

[apuchar]

Might be focus. Buzz word at Freo is contest.

 

[Taylor]

But the 4 inside mids who can't kick has basically restricted us to that. It is too one dimensional. We need to add some kicking to our best 22 to give us multiple avenues otherwise we are just going to scramble goals with very little system and will be very easy to stop like we were this week. Taberner won't be able to perform miracles in congestion.

I agree we need better kicking but the two sides of the kick story does mean we can make up for a shortfall on one side with a surplus of ability on the other to win contested contests, which is where Fyfe and Taberner's marking can come into it.

Or Naughton's marking. The same sort of player. Treacy could even be that solution. I think Jackson will improve a lot there as well.

Fast ball movement will depend on being predictable.

 

[apuchar]

I agree we need better kicking but the two sides of the kick story does mean we can make up for a shortfall on one side with a surplus of ability on the other to win contested contests, which is where Fyfe and Taberner's marking can come into it.

Or Naughton's marking. The same sort of player. Treacy could even be that solution. I think Jackson will improve a lot there as well.

Fast ball movement will depend on being predictable.

And skilled. Brayshaw can barely hit a handball and Serong can't kick. They need to improve or we are going to be an effort, skilless team like before..If we recruit one more slow, low skilled footballer I'm going to blow a gasket.
They both get a lot of the vall around the ground so they can't turn it over so often or be so ineffective.

 

[Wizard]

Brayshaw can barely hit a handball.

What's the story here?

Was an issue his rookie season, he really cleaned it up in his second year and has since. I really hadn't noticed it as an issue this year either until Pav successfully spoke it into existence yesterday.

Shut the **** up Matthew. You ruined him.

 

[apuchar]

What's the story here?

Was an issue his rookie season, he really cleaned it up in his second year and has since. I really hadn't noticed it as an issue this year either until Pav successfully spoke it into existence yesterday.

Shut the * up Matthew. You ruined him.

It has been an issue for much of the season. Maybe I just look at the negatives with Brayshaw and Serong because someone has to. We didn't end up 14th by accident.

 

[south beach]

What's the story here?

Was an issue his rookie season, he really cleaned it up in his second year and has since. I really hadn't noticed it as an issue this year either until Pav successfully spoke it into existence yesterday.

Shut the * up Matthew. You ruined him.

Pav rarely has a positive word for Freo these days

 

[Paracleet]

What's the story here?

Was an issue his rookie season, he really cleaned it up in his second year and has since. I really hadn't noticed it as an issue this year either until Pav successfully spoke it into existence yesterday.

Shut the * up Matthew. You ruined him.

Brayshaw's field kicking has actually been pretty good this year. He's improved more than I thought he would based on his first 3 seasons. He was poor yesterday but otherwise Pav is simply wrong.

 

[apuchar]

Brayshaw's field kicking has actually been pretty good this year. He's improved more than I thought he would based on his first 3 seasons. He was poor yesterday but otherwise Pav is simply wrong.

Or you are. He has improved his goal kicking.

 

[Paracleet]

Or you are.

No definitely him, and by extension you.

 

[freo1997]

We need JOM decision making and skill in the middle imo. Has better skills than most. Only Young might be better.

I would be placing Andy on the wing. Feel like he would become the competitions best wingman.

Fyfe I would trial as a backman. Wouldn’t put him in the fwd line as he can’t kick for goal and I feel like he’s too banged up for the midfield.

Johnson and Serong are the other two that need to be the middle extractor’s. Young on the outside.

Erasmus needs to clean up his disposal, likewise Brodie. Both shouldn’t be in seniors until they clean it up.

Just to reiterate. We need at least one or two skilled mids and I honestly feel like JOM is the most equipped in that department. Johnson and Serong are both bulls in the contest. Andy I see more of a workhorse between the goalposts up and back (Henry’s role atm)

Brodie/Erasmus depth. Disposal not there.

Aish/Andy on the wings.

Johnson/Serong are the extractors.

Young/JOM on the outside.

Fyfe turned into an intercepting defender.

 

[apuchar]

No definitely him, and by extension you.

Ok we are both wrong and you're right which can happen sometimes. Shame we can't win a midfield battle with those two paragons of virtue and highly skilled individuals

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Fyfe I would trial as a backman.

 

[Wizard]

We need JOM decision making and skill in the middle imo. Has better skills than most. Only Young might be better.

Missed him yesterday.

 

[Footskill]

I think the deficiencies with the dynamic duo of Brayshaw and serong in the midfield was overlooked. When serong first came , both played well playing mid but they had the protection and guidance of Mundy. Now they are the more experienced mids compared to Ras and MJ they running around bit like headless chooks trying hack the ball forward.

No doubt still both good, but need one more elite mid in there that can use the ball.

 

[Taylor]

Fyfe needs to be starting forward and running into the middle of the ground to offer a marking target on transition when he isn't playing in the stoppages.

 

[Docker82]

The issue with kicking efficiency is it does not consider the kicking difficulty and it's measure for what is considered an efficient disposal is bullish**.

For example long bombs to a pack that aren't marked by the opposition are efficient kicks. I wouldn't consider them good kicks whatsoever unless they are to the advantage of our players.

Yesterday I saw Port transition the ball without contested marks regularly. We basically rely on them or the ball bouncing our way when it's a halved contest. It's low percentage and isn't helping us win games. We need to move (both the ball and running patterns) quicker and smarter.

Defenders generally have high disposal efficiency as they usually just bomb it down the line when there's nothing. Inside mids and forwards usually have more pressure on them and usually have lower disposal efficiency.

It's not necessarily a useless stat but by itself I'm not sure it really tells us anything tbh.

 

[Footskill]

Lol I don't think defense is in fyfes vocab, when he was a mid or fwd .but sure put him in defense

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Lol I don't think defense is in fyfes vocab, when he was a mid or fwd .but sure put him in defense

It would be a complete and utter disaster and if I see him start a centre bounce down there I'm supporting WC