List Mgmt. 2023 List Management thread

[Snuffaluphagus]

Mod notice after Mr Bob did a lot of annoying work in moving days of posts out of here. As we are heading into offseason, this thread is for 2023 list management only. Getting upset on previous trades can be taken to the vent thread. Lets keep this thread on track in the part of the year it's actually relevant

 

[Joao]

At the end of the day they still have Weller and Ballard, two bonafide best 22 players they should get a decade's service from. I wish we were fleeced like that more often! It's one of the more overrated "infamous trades" and I'm a huge Andrew Brayshaw fan.

Trading and drafting have to be separate though. That they found a quality player at 40odd does not mean they got value. They got absolutely smashed at the trade. Also isn't Weller injured again? Poor dude having his best years taken from him.

We're usually on the other side of those trades.

 

[pK75]

Clearly we overreacted last year to Lobb leaving and the need for additional forwards, Corbett is a bust after last night and Emmett doesn’t look like he’ll make it either, jury still out on Reidy but as a back up ruck, we should have gone for a more mature journeyman who could fill the breach when Darcy gets injured. All in all a poor draft for Walls and co.
Thought Hamling played well last night, wish we’d tried playing him earlier when Chapmen first went out, we have struggled with teams who play 3 tall forwards all year.
I will be sorely disappointed if we lose Sturt and Hamling purely because their contacts are up this year and we need the spots opened up.
On a positive note:
Stanley looks good, he, NOD and Henry could make a dynamic trio on the wing.
Chapman replacing Hughes in the backline will improve our rebound.
Need to play Switowski, Erasmus, Johnson, Brodie and Jackson more at CB as the JOM, Serong, Brayshaw combination all the time isn’t working.

 

[Ausbenito]

Good points the centre bounce mix definitely needs looking at what has happened to Brodie? We really need either Johnson or Erasmus to become top shelf that could be the missing link
Chapman yes needed to come in for his rebound.

 

[eastfreo75]

Seeing Gold coast rest of the fixture or could very well be pick 4

On SM-A205YN using BigFooty.com mobile app

If that is the case, Suns will likely to try to trade up to avoid a bid on their academy players.

 

[Lach72]

Clearly we overreacted last year to Lobb leaving and the need for additional forwards, Corbett is a bust after last night and Emmett doesn’t look like he’ll make it either, jury still out on Reidy but as a back up ruck, we should have gone for a more mature journeyman who could fill the breach when Darcy gets injured. All in all a poor draft for Walls and co.
Thought Hamling played well last night, wish we’d tried playing him earlier when Chapmen first went out, we have struggled with teams who play 3 tall forwards all year.
I will be sorely disappointed if we lose Sturt and Hamling purely because their contacts are up this year and we need the spots opened up.
On a positive note:
Stanley looks good, he, NOD and Henry could make a dynamic trio on the wing.
Chapman replacing Hughes in the backline will improve our rebound.
Need to play Switowski, Erasmus, Johnson, Brodie and Jackson more at CB as the JOM, Serong, Brayshaw combination all the time isn’t working.

Someone better tell the coach

From a team balance point of view, would you like to keep him in there or send him back forward?
We went with a different structure tonight than when Sean was missing last time and I thought ‘Corbs’ (Josh Corbett) gave us a decent contest ahead of the ball when he had to and brought it to ground and created some opportunities himself as well. So we will keep tinkering with personnel but I think that structure is a better structure for us.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Oleg Markov, Will Hoskin Elliot, Billy Frampton, Darcy Cameron, Nathan Kruger, Patrick Lipinsky, Tom Mitchell, Daniel McStay, Taylor Adams, Bobby Hill, Jack Crisp, Jeremy Howe.

Under your method none of those players would be playing for Collingwood…none of them would be A graders according to any method I can think of.

Mitchell not at this stage of his career. Crisp maybe.

So what does that leave us with?

Coaching… and three A grade father sons and Isaac Quaynor and Pendlebury and De Goey

Let me add, Collingwood had done a brilliant job at topping up there list by identifying good players.

Our player identification for existing players is shit, and we don't pick players that 1. Compliment our list, 2. Peak when our list will peak.

The other key difference was in 2016 our list was in a shocking state, and the only way I have seen club rebuild a bad list is through the draft. Collingwood list over the last 10 years was always OK, sometimes it just didn't perform for a few years. Our list is still not in a great state, but it is getting better.

While looking at Collingwood, they are very good at trading out players they don't want for good picks.
Aish, Treloar, Grundy.

In summary, we should build the core of our list through the draft and then top up. If we had kept a few more draft picks, I think we would be ready to start topping up.

 

[apuchar]

Someone better tell the coach

From a team balance point of view, would you like to keep him in there or send him back forward?
We went with a different structure tonight than when Sean was missing last time and I thought ‘Corbs’ (Josh Corbett) gave us a decent contest ahead of the ball when he had to and brought it to ground and created some opportunities himself as well. So we will keep tinkering with personnel but I think that structure is a better structure for us.

The structure is three talls. Not necessarily Corbett. Corbett was ok until he stopped leading up the ground.

 

[Superkoops]

If that is the case, Suns will likely to try to trade up to avoid a bid on their academy players.

Unlikely GC will trade up. Jed Walter most likely to bid on at 2/3. The strong consensus is that they will trade down. They have two other players rated top 15-20. I guess technically they could trade with North for pick 2 but the cost would set them back when they need good range of late first to good early seconds to pay for their academy players.

 

[eastfreo75]

Unlikely GC will trade up. Jed Walter most likely to bid on at 2/3. The strong consensus is that they will trade down. They have two other players rated top 15-20. I guess technically they could trade with North for pick 2 but the cost would set them back when they need good range of late first to good early seconds to pay for their academy players.

Most teams try to get in front of the bid if they can.

Roos pick 2, 38, 57 to the Suns for pick 4 and 2024 first round pick.

They can’t get that done, they will downgrading pick 4 for sure.

 

[sherrif]

Unlikely GC will trade up. Jed Walter most likely to bid on at 2/3. The strong consensus is that they will trade down. They have two other players rated top 15-20. I guess technically they could trade with North for pick 2 but the cost would set them back when they need good range of late first to good early seconds to pay for their academy players.

Gold Coast appear likely to have three academy players receiving bids in the top 15 picks and tow bid matches required for two of three bids likely to be top ten which is a staggering advantage. Its more likely they'll keep their first pick and live trade it to the highest bidder on draft night as they'll be plenty of times wanting to get their hands on an early pick that could trade for way more points than what the GC first rounder would be worth alone. Eg Melbourne could trade two seconds and two thirds. Gold Coast has nine picks currently with a lot of third and 4th rounders so they benefit from those picks moving up to match their second points match bid likely to be Ethan Read in the 8-10 pick range if they trade 4 picks in to match heir first bid.

 

[Superkoops]

Most teams try to get in front of the bid if they can.

Roos pick 2, 38, 57 to the Suns for pick 4 and 2024 first round pick.

They can’t get that done, they will downgrading pick 4 for sure.

That is possible but the problem is they will need a large bevy of pts for 3 boys in top 20. Cal Twomey rates the three of top 11. Two top 10 and another that will most likely slip a bit but still go top 25.

Anyway point is. Should they do a trade like that and get pick 2 the next club bid on Walter at 3. They need a lot of points for that selection (even with discount) and then after having picks essentially wiped out need to butter up with a heap more picks for second academy player around 7. Having to trade that Future first for second round picks. Then after doing that another bid comes at 15 (for eg.) for their third academy player and going through the same process and trading out another F1 etc.

If they could get all that done and have completed selections 2, 3, 7, 15 and manage to retain some value next season and avoid too much draft deficit then all kudos to GC recruiting team.

 

[Taylor]

If we were in their position I would hope we trade to get ahead of the bid, take one or two picks prior to the academy bid coming in and leave with two or three top ten pick, as we did last time..

 

[wakojako]

We don't just need an elite small forward but an elite half forward as well. If there is one in the first round than we need to trade up. There are none projecting top ten at this stage which means you can find a bargain but they are not guaranteed to be elite.

 

[Ysaye]

We don't just need an elite small forward but an elite half forward as well. If there is one in the first round than we need to trade up. There are none projecting top ten at this stage which means you can find a bargain but they are not guaranteed to be elite.

Well I don't see Watson as anything other than a small forward, but he will go Top 10 (I just don't reckon he will go Top 5 because of size).

If we go by Twomey's early draft from earlier today, non-tall forwards that will be available from 20 onwards will include (in no particular order) Lance Collard, Jack Delean, Koltan Tholstrup, Koen Sanchez and Ashton Moir. I don't know what you mean by Elite, but I think that some of those have the potential to be as good or even better than say (for example) Cody Weightman at the Dogs or K.Pickett at Melbourne. They all have different strengths, attributes and deficiencies.

 

[wakojako]

Well I don't see Watson as anything other than a small forward, but he will go Top 10 (I just don't reckon he will go Top 5 because of size).

If we go by Twomey's early draft from earlier today, non-tall forwards that will be available from 20 onwards will include (in no particular order) Lance Collard, Jack Delean, Koltan Tholstrup, Koen Sanchez and Ashton Moir. I don't know what you mean by Elite, but I think that some of those have the potential to be as good or even better than say (for example) Cody Weightman at the Dogs or K.Pickett at Melbourne. They all have different strengths, attributes and deficiencies.

Eh I am not convinced 170cm is tall enough to play footy, I wouldn't pick Watson top 10.

We need a small forward with pace and goal nous and there are none in the first round really.

 

[Taylor]

We don't just need an elite small forward but an elite half forward as well. If there is one in the first round than we need to trade up. There are none projecting top ten at this stage which means you can find a bargain but they are not guaranteed to be elite.

I'm not sure there is such as thing as an elite half forward at U18s level. They are all mids or projected to be mids, medium forwards who would rather be mids and aren't playing there because they are lacking the traits that would make them elite small forwards at AFL level.

 

[wakojako]

I'm not sure there is such as thing as an elite half forward at U18s level. They are all mids or projected to be mids, medium forwards who would rather be mids and aren't playing there because they are lacking the traits that would make them elite small forwards at AFL level.

Actually that's a very good point. We need someone similar to Rozee's draft profile:

• Athleticism
• Speed
• Foot Skills
• Cleanliness
• Overhead Marking
• Tackling
• Versatility

I don't think we have the draft capital to land someone like that though and I haven't really seen any players that fit that mould in the projections. Funnily enough that might be Stanley.

 

[Ysaye]

Actually that's a very good point. We need someone similar to Rozee's draft profile:

• Athleticism
• Speed
• Foot Skills
• Cleanliness
• Overhead Marking
• Tackling
• Versatility

I don't think we have the draft capital to land someone like that though and I haven't really seen any players that fit that mould in the projections. Funnily enough that might be Stanley.

Remembering that Rozee was a forward originally and has transitioned into after arguably a couple of "not quite there" (2020,2021) years. If we can create that out of an existing player that will be a lot faster.

Matt Johnson might have been down recent games but he has that kind of Rozee profile - would expect that he is the chosen one atm. I always felt though that he is more the complementary player than the primary play-maker, which might be fine with a Serong in there to lead.

Profile-wise Sam Sturt has those same attributes and funnily enough Ross Lyon was having him play wing/midfield in his first year of WAFL (subsequent to the concussions), but Longmuir since favored using him more in a Will Hoskin-Elliott role. I am surprised we haven't explored the originally RTB concept a little more when we haven't needed another forward.

 

[blue shark]

Remembering that Rozee was a forward originally and has transitioned into after arguably a couple of "not quite there" (2020,2021) years. If we can create that out of an existing player that will be a lot faster.

Matt Johnson might have been down recent games but he has that kind of Rozee profile - would expect that he is the chosen one atm. I always felt though that he is more the complementary player than the primary play-maker, which might be fine with a Serong in there to lead.

Profile-wise Sam Sturt has those same attributes and funnily enough Ross Lyon was having him play wing/midfield in his first year of WAFL (subsequent to the concussions), but Longmuir since favored using him more in a Will Hoskin-Elliott role. I am surprised we haven't explored the originally RTB concept a little more when we haven't needed another forward.

Duursma is the Rozee type, and he will probably end up at the Dees
I liked Sturt at first but he is still slight and that’s a blight on the club.

 

[theGav56]

No that was Rosich overriding him ( I want bell sacked btw but that was not him)

We never did a true rebuild until Rosich and RTB left.

Serong, Young, Henry, Amiss, Johnson and Erasmus are high talent we’ve drafted in since 2019.

AB and Darcy are the only high talent in the squad between 2016-2019. Cox and Ryan were good later picks.

My issue with Bell stems from the last offseason. The trade bundle for Jackson, the amount of years given to JOM and last years draft picks. Yes they were later picks, but I think we picked poorly and not needs.

Rebuilds aren't just about young players. And you don't go scorched earth rebuild with a list containing players like Fyfe, Mundy and Walters.

Plus, if Hogan and Lobb had played to their potential we are right in the zone for contending.

The biggest stuff up at the club is underestimating the performance risk of appointing a rookie coach. It could perhaps have been mitigated by bringing in someone like Pyke or Williams, but we chose the sink or swim method.

 

[Joao]

Duursma is the Rozee type, and he will probably end up at the Dees
I liked Sturt at first but he is still slight and that’s a blight on the club.

Rozee is slight as well. Sturt's body is fine unless you want him to emulate Cripps or play key position.

 

[FreoRicci]

Stanley looks to be a great pick up.
But couldn’t help be wondering gee there’s a few developmental players, yet made finals last season. Is this just a mini rebuild?
Henry and Stanley in - Acres out. Tucker out.

Clearly we overreacted last year to Lobb leaving and the need for additional forwards, Corbett is a bust after last night and Emmett doesn’t look like he’ll make it either, jury still out on Reidy but as a back up ruck, we should have gone for a more mature journeyman who could fill the breach when Darcy gets injured. All in all a poor draft for Walls and co.
Thought Hamling played well last night, wish we’d tried playing him earlier when Chapmen first went out, we have struggled with teams who play 3 tall forwards all year.
I will be sorely disappointed if we lose Sturt and Hamling purely because their contacts are up this year and we need the spots opened up.
On a positive note:
Stanley looks good, he, NOD and Henry could make a dynamic trio on the wing.
Chapman replacing Hughes in the backline will improve our rebound.
Need to play Switowski, Erasmus, Johnson, Brodie and Jackson more at CB as the JOM, Serong, Brayshaw combination all the time isn’t working.

Agree with Hamling. Actually does a bette job one on one no fuss then Pearce.
Really hope we sign him on. For leadership and help. There’s no depth defensively yet.
Sturt deserves another contract. Feel like he’s building and just needs better connection.

 

[s_wd6]

Stanley looks to be a great pick up.
But couldn’t help be wondering gee there’s a few developmental players, yet made finals last season. Is this just a mini rebuild?
Henry and Stanley in - Acres out. Tucker out.

Agree with Hamling. Actually does a bette job one on one no fuss then Pearce.
Really hope we sign him on. For leadership and help. There’s no depth defensively yet.
Sturt deserves another contract. Feel like he’s building and just needs better connection.

Unless we have eyes on a good mature KPD who would come to us for cheap, then re signing Hamling has to be non negotiable. We can’t carry injury prone KPDs through another season with no backup.

 

[Johnny Dalmas]

Agreed we have made some abysmal trades, this one is up there with them. Picks 4, 13 and 22 for someone that wouldn't be in the top 6 ruckman in the competition at the moment.

We didn't recruit him as a ruckman. We recruited him as a forward

 

[Taylor]

Hamling was playing Pearce's role. That's why Moose was taking marks on the fifty where Cox usually does. Next season I want them both doing that.