List Mgmt. 2023 List Management

[Jeremias]

Interesting that you write Crocker off for struggling twice in an AFL environment but have no problem with Markov.

Markov is an athlete with limited AFL ability.

Struggling twice in an AFL environment isn't the only reason why I wouldn't look at Crocker.

Doesn't offer any sort of forward pressure, no clear position at AFL level, not a position of need.

Very different to Markov who ticks two of those boxes straight away.

 

[Coona Blues]

Think he starts in the back 7 round 1. Then it's up to him

Soooooo…..we are contending for a flag, and a bloke who has fallen out of two programs walks straight in to our best 22.

Can’t agree with that logic.

For mine, if Doc is staying in the midfield mix, we move McGovern up to the rebounding, distributor role and Marchy (or Kemp) walks in to the 3rd tall spot.

Probably places pressure on Gov’s soft tissue frailties, but seems the best option to me. We likely blood Cowan through he year, and we already have Newman who has been a staple as well as Plowman who can play in the role, albeit in a different stylistic capacity.

As has been mentioned by a couple of us over the journey, it would be interesting to trial Honey out of defence too. We already have plenty of options. I understand the “conservative” mindset with a ready to play Markov, but there is some young talent yet to find a way to a list that is worth a speculative throw at the stumps. Somewhat demotivating also for Leui, Cincotta, even Ramshaw.

 

[Doro]

Markov is another clanger specialist. Not sure we want that out of defence based on the way we set up last season. Turn it over and we usually pay for it on the scoreboard.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Austin would also have first hand knowledge of Markov as Richmond's recruiting officer when they drafted him in 2015.

I've always been a bit of a fan of Markov - has genuine pace that we're currently lacking - so more than happy to sign him up. Although when big Mirkov makes his debut for us, poor ol' BT will have a nightmare.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Would hardly describe Marchbank, Young or Newman as fast. Marchy can run all day, but he's not particularly quick to my eyes. Newman is definitely not a fast runner for someone his size.

Nor did I describe them as fast but i wouldn't call Tom Stewart, Zac Tuohy, Nathan Broad or Tarrant or Grimes fast, or even quick?

 

[Jeremias]

Soooooo…..we are contending for a flag, and a bloke who has fallen out of two programs walks straight in to our best 22.

Stengle
Hickey
Menegola
Caddy
Mumford

Just a few names for your consideration from the last few years alone. Let me know what they have in common.

It's a bit silly to think we're contending for a flag, but then put a line through us because we've taken Markov.

 

[Arr0w]

Soooooo…..we are contending for a flag, and a bloke who has fallen out of two programs walks straight in to our best 22.

Can’t agree with that logic.

For mine, if Doc is staying in the midfield mix, we move McGovern up to the rebounding, distributor role and Marchy (or Kemp) walks in to the 3rd tall spot.

Probably places pressure on Gov’s soft tissue frailties, but seems the best option to me. We likely blood Cowan through he year, and we already have Newman who has been a staple as well as Plowman who can play in the role, albeit in a different stylistic capacity.

As has been mentioned by a couple of us over the journey, it would be interesting to trial Honey out of defence too. We already have plenty of options. I understand the “conservative” mindset with a ready to play Markov, but there is some young talent yet to find a way to a list that is worth a speculative throw at the stumps. Somewhat demotivating also for Leui, Cincotta, even Ramshaw.

We are contending for the 8, a flag would be a bonus this year

A number of what ifs. Ramshaw isn't up to the level and while I like Cincotta, at the next level he is just a break glass general defender

Trialing a guy like Honey off HB, would take time

None of Newman, Plow have the attributes we have lost with Williams and Boyd. Kemp is still developing, Cowan needs development

Targeting Markov isn't conservative and not being a constant in that Tigers side, shouldn't be viewed as not being capable to play a role in our setup

When we lost Boyd and Williams last year, we suffered with run and carry from our defensive 50, Markov helps us maintain the layers that will be added this year

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

We are contending for the 8, a flag would be a bonus this year

A number of what ifs. Ramshaw isn't up to the level and while I like Cincotta, at the next level he is just a break glass general defender

Trialing a guy like Honey off HB, would take time

None of Newman, Plow have the attributes we have lost with Williams and Boyd. Kemp is still developing, Cowan needs development

Targeting Markov isn't conservative and not being a constant in that Tigers side, shouldn't be viewed as not being capable to play a role in our setup

When we lost Boyd and Williams last year, we suffered with run and carry from our defensive 50, Markov helps us maintain the layers that will be added this year

The question being, how much better are we as a team with a Markov replacing ZW rather than giving a Kemp or a Cowan a crack in that spot?

Marginal imo, especially for a guy to walk into a new team/set up etc.

 

[CJMB]

Nor did I describe them as fast but i wouldn't call Tom Stewart, Zac Tuohy, Nathan Broad or Tarrant or Grimes fast, or even quick?

Just saying, the talk was about the defenders suddenly looking a fair bit slower with Saad & Gov the only two with wheels.

How well the defenders use the ball is all good and well when we have the ball, but running a slower back 6 likely means our wings have to get back more often to help cover.

You obviously want as many good users as possible, but a reduction in leg speed probably means a bit more work overall for other defenders (& wings) covering each other & makes you more vulnerable to teams that have multiple smaller forwards with genuine pace/agility/etc.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Happy with a backline of

Weiters Young Saad Newman kemp Markov gov


Got pace, got good kicking, intercepting

Docherty should still play round 1 in defence.

I’d rather see Carroll/Ed/Hollands play than Markov.

 

[marcmurphy3]

The question being, how much better are we as a team with a Markov replacing ZW rather than giving a Kemp or a Cowan a crack in that spot?

Marginal imo, especially for a guy to walk into a new team/set up etc.

Just because we pick him up doesn't mean he walks into the 22 over those guys. He provides us another option, adds depth in a position we are light in and strengthens our vfl program. I'd be surprised if he plays round 1. He will be the 40th player on our list. Plenty of premiership teams have had worse players then Markov on their list.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

The question being, how much better are we as a team with a Markov replacing ZW rather than giving a Kemp or a Cowan a crack in that spot?

Marginal imo, especially for a guy to walk into a new team/set up etc.

There is nothing stopping us giving a Kemp or a Cowan a crack in that spot if their form warrants selection.

Markov's genuine speed gives a point of difference.

 

[Benga]

Soooooo…..we are contending for a flag, and a bloke who has fallen out of two programs walks straight in to our best 22.

Can’t agree with that logic.

For mine, if Doc is staying in the midfield mix, we move McGovern up to the rebounding, distributor role and Marchy (or Kemp) walks in to the 3rd tall spot.

Probably places pressure on Gov’s soft tissue frailties, but seems the best option to me. We likely blood Cowan through he year, and we already have Newman who has been a staple as well as Plowman who can play in the role, albeit in a different stylistic capacity.

As has been mentioned by a couple of us over the journey, it would be interesting to trial Honey out of defence too. We already have plenty of options. I understand the “conservative” mindset with a ready to play Markov, but there is some young talent yet to find a way to a list that is worth a speculative throw at the stumps. Somewhat demotivating also for Leui, Cincotta, even Ramshaw.

Will Brodie says hello

 

[Wickzki]

Thought we were done with the lazy, passive, types.

Fmd.

 

[TwiggleyFanClub]

While markov isn’t the best player going around he does have super pace, has the best mo in the comp(tie with soldo) and has a super hot gf.
I think you should pick him up.

Bolstering the BnF stocks.

 

[Arr0w]

The question being, how much better are we as a team with a Markov replacing ZW rather than giving a Kemp or a Cowan a crack in that spot?

Marginal imo, especially for a guy to walk into a new team/set up etc.

Kemp is more a 3rd tall, Cowan shouldn't be rushed. Even if adding Markov for a year gives us depth while Cowan develops naturally, it's a smart move

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Kemp is more a 3rd tall, Cowan shouldn't be rushed. Even if adding Markov for a year gives us depth while Cowan develops naturally, it's a smart move

I presume Philp on LTI too.

So, we have two spots to fill?

 

[Jimmae]

Dangerous medium forwards are Carlton's biggest deficiency now. Fisher provides no threat or pressure as a forward, Martin(when switched on) is our only quick, hard tackling, marking, threatening medium forward. Cunners, if he can put his injury issues behind him, might allow us to use Martin elsewhere.
Lets play specialist half forwards near goal, not excess midfielders like Walsh last year.

Nothing wrong with having a midfield position rotating off half-forward, which is what Walsh was doing.

As for medium forwards, we've got the option of Akuei and Kemp, who have shown flair for the position and arguably better there than they are in defence (particularly Akeui).

Carroll is another option here too as his endurance base slowly builds. He may never progress to a full-time midfield role if history is any indicator, so it's worth continuing to build his ability to play a role there.

Is he quick enough?

Yes, and he's got an underrated ability in the air which means he won't get outpointed by taller opponents easily. He's got a great defensive mindset, and will have licence to attack the ground ball as he sees fit.

I'd also rate his run and carry from that position when he's probably having to put in about 10% less work than his typical midfield or forward roles. Stocky build, he'll hold his own if his lower leg issues hold up.

Just a question of his defensive read from that part of the ground, but I'd be looking at him over the other position switches mentioned.

Docherty will be in the midfield.


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And as a first option it's a dumb place to start him. We need options more options who can and intercept or set us up off half-back as needed, not less.

We've got more midfielders than we know what to do with, and we're trying to use less of them than ever. It's a coaching misstep and a fixation on something that worked briefly with limited opportunity for opposition planning. As defensively competent as he is, he will get worked over through a season, especially if he's covering for Kennedy and Cripps for 15+ games, which is what happened to Hewett, Walsh, and Cerra.

He doesn't fix the problem comprehensively, he's just another body thrown on the pile.

Not a big fan of the prospect of picking up Markov. The bloke can look impressive on the run, fast and a big boy. He has, however been fringe at two clubs. We are seemingly loaded with defensive small/medium options.

Suggests to me that we want to play as we have rehearsed with two attacking, rebound HBF’s. Trouble is Zac has elite disposal and Markov is ordinary at best.

We have multiple blokes in the twos who could fill a role if we want a defensive option. Surely we want to develop our youngsters rather than grabbing a journeyman gap filler.

Hoping it is just conjecture at this stage. I was somewhat a fan of Markov at his draft year(s), has some admirable traits, but at this stage of his career, we are not fixing his shortcomings in disposal and decision making. I am very focussed on improving connectivity, so am perplexed. Would allow a more similar game style/structure in the seconds I suppose.

Yeah I'd much rather us either going early now on a younger prospect that was needlessly overlooked last year (I can think of a few), or wait for the mid-season draft. There's so much talent going into the state leagues because of current list limits.

Will Brodie says hello

Not the same: in and out of the team at GC before finally starting to pull it together than was traded because GC couldn't stand his contract numbers any more, and he couldn't stand them failing to reward improvement and provide opportunity.

Like Setterfield, just without the despondency having fully set in.

 

[JuddgementDay]

How about kemp comes in for williams?

He must get a chance and then it’s up to him to show us that he belongs in the AFL

 

[FRUMPY]

Struggling twice in an AFL environment isn't the only reason why I wouldn't look at Crocker.

Doesn't offer any sort of forward pressure, no clear position at AFL level, not a position of need.

Very different to Markov who ticks two of those boxes straight away.

you just have to watch him when he doesnt have the ball or not likely to get the ball - definition of a selfish player, can see why he got cut twice.

 

[Benaly28]

Nothing wrong with having a midfield position rotating off half-forward, which is what Walsh was doing.

As for medium forwards, we've got the option of Akuei and Kemp, who have shown flair for the position and arguably better there than they are in defence (particularly Akeui).

Carroll is another option here too as his endurance base slowly builds. He may never progress to a full-time midfield role if history is any indicator, so it's worth continuing to build his ability to play a role there.

Yes, and he's got an underrated ability in the air which means he won't get outpointed by taller opponents easily. He's got a great defensive mindset, and will have licence to attack the ground ball as he sees fit.

I'd also rate his run and carry from that position when he's probably having to put in about 10% less work than his typical midfield or forward roles. Stocky build, he'll hold his own if his lower leg issues hold up.

Just a question of his defensive read from that part of the ground, but I'd be looking at him over the other position switches mentioned.

And as a first option it's a dumb place to start him. We need options more options who can and intercept or set us up off half-back as needed, not less.

We've got more midfielders than we know what to do with, and we're trying to use less of them than ever. It's a coaching misstep and a fixation on something that worked briefly with limited opportunity for opposition planning. As defensively competent as he is, he will get worked over through a season, especially if he's covering for Kennedy and Cripps for 15+ games, which is what happened to Hewett, Walsh, and Cerra.

He doesn't fix the problem comprehensively, he's just another body thrown on the pile.

Yeah I'd much rather us either going early now on a younger prospect that was needlessly overlooked last year (I can think of a few), or wait for the mid-season draft. There's so much talent going into the state leagues because of current list limits.

Not the same: in and out of the team at GC before finally starting to pull it together than was traded because GC couldn't stand his contract numbers any more, and he couldn't stand them failing to reward improvement and provide opportunity.

Like Setterfield, just without the despondency having fully set in.

Doc can also provide leadership around the midfield area.For the short term until Walsh/Boyd get back it just makes sense.

Edit:You need at least 8/9 mids through rotation these days,I don’t see us have a ‘plethora’ of them,bonafides especially.


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[Jimmae]

Given the way injuries are shaping up, I like the look of this line-up for R1:

FB: Marchbank Young McGovern
HB: Docherty Weitering Saad
C: Acres Cerra O'Brien
HF: C.Durdin C.Curnow Fisher
FF: Silvagni McKay Motlop

R: TDK Cripps Hewett

Int: Martin (fwd), Kemp (mid/def), E.Curnow (mid)

Last bench spot is one of Carroll, Kennedy, Dow, and Cuningham, though I expect Cuningham to miss entirely at this stage. My preference is for Carroll, to flex between wing and half forward, with Dow subbed in through the 3rd quarter alongside a directive for Ed and Cerra to drift outside more as the game opens up.

 

[Jimmae]

Doc can also provide leadership around the midfield area.For the short term until Walsh/Boyd get back it just makes sense.

Edit:You need at least 8/9 mids through rotation these days,I don’t see us have a ‘plethora’ of them,bonafides especially.


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What leadership aren't Cripps, Hewett, and Acres providing? Pittonet too if he starts. We're supposed to be a mature outfit, the experience numbers are there, this is lack of confidence that you project is absurd.

As you can see in the 23 I've just listed above, I'm all for the idea of having 9+ midfield options in the mix, and I'm still counting Docherty amongst that.

The only players I expect to staying relatively close to their designated lines are McKay, Motlop (for now), Marchbank, Young, Weitering, and maybe McGovern.

 

[Burgers45]

Five players for Carlton to consider as potential Zac Williams replacements

With the SSP deadline incoming, could the Blues consider one of these five names?

www.zerohanger.com

 

[jooce8891]

pls no markov, can run fast and thats about it for him, rather give cincotta a chance