Preview 2023 Round 3 – GWS Giants vs Carlton, Saturday, April 1, 4.35PM AEST, @Giants Stadium

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Well, that was a bit disappointing.

I don’t know what happened in the second quarter but there’s no way you can let the other side score eight goals and then expect to win the game. As it was we did well to reel them back a bit.

This Saturday’s twilight match with the Blues will be intriguing.

Carlton is thought to be on the rise under Michael Voss, or at least that’s the narrative being pushed by the VFL media. So far, they’ve managed to snatch a draw in a round one and looked great against Geelong (at least for three quarters) last Thursday. They’ve got some real class in the form of Patrick Cripps and two Coleman medallists in Charlie Curnow and Harry McKay.

They’re also going into this off a nine-day break, while we’re on a six-day turnaround from Perth. Pretty tough draw for us, although sometimes, long breaks aren’t that good an idea either.

Let’s have a look at the likely line-up. It’s more a case of fine-tuning than wholesale changes:

FB: Connor Idun, Sam Taylor, Isaac Cumming
HB: Jack Buckley, Nick Haynes, Lachie Whitfield
C: Finn Callaghan, Callan Ward, Josh Kelly
HF: James Peatling, Harry Himmelberg, Daniel Lloyd
FF: Toby Greene, Jesse Hogan, Brent Daniels
RR: Matt Flynn, Tom Green, Stephen Coniglio

Interchange: Cooper Hamilton, Harry Rowston, Conor Stone, Adam Kennedy, Lachie Ash

In: Josh Kelly, Lachie Whitfield

Out: Jake Riccardi (omitted), Jacob Wehr (injured)

Riccardi needs to be dropped for a while and Jacob Wehr will be out after getting hammered with another nasty bump. I put Peatling back in the starting line-up because he did a couple of nice one-percenters up front and deserves reward for effort. I also thought Cooper Hamilton had a pretty good game.

I wouldn’t rush Cadman into the team. He would be better off with a bit of experience in the VFL under his belt.

It’s not panic stations just yet. There were some genuinely exciting passages of play against the Eagles. We’ve just started to learn the new game style and need to be patient, until we find a rhythm.

No-one is really expecting us to win against Carlton, but with the right line-up, we are capable of an upset.

Thoughts?
 
Going to be tough but will be a test of the team and coach on how we respond. This was always going to be the hardest match of the first 5 rounds, with Carlton the only opponent from the first 5 rounds that will probably make the finals. The market skso seems to think we will lose this as we are $2.48 underdogs (Carlton $1.54 favourites). However, it’s at home, and we should get Kelly and Whitfield back and Cadman debut?
 

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I agree that it's another unfortunate quirk of the fixture - given our short turnaround from a WA game (thanks VFL House!) - that reduces the likelihood of us winning this game, which could be winnable given Carlton's habit of dropping away in games. Still, hopefully we'll get Lachie & Chook back, and they should help with our running game to at least make a contest of it.

Presuming that Wehr is out, and Whitfield returns, I'd agree that Cooper Hamilton is likely to get the crack at moving up from the backline to the wing role. The only thing that concerns me is his disposal. He certainly cracks in and has a go, but he turned over a few kicks in the WA game, which I noted he had a habit of doing so last year too. The other options would be Conor Stone, or Adam Kennedy.

If Ward has assumed Pez's midfield role, then Kelly will return for Rowston (presuming he's fit). I thought Rowston cracked in well early against Eagles, and almost kicked a goal, but dropped away in the second quarter and never really came back, so more time in VFL will do him good. But he looks a long-term prospect.

That leaves Riccardi as a separate decision. Like others, I have been hopeful the last couple of years, but a bit despairing of when it will click for him (if ever). I'd be content to pull the trigger this week and debut Cadman at home against the Blues - he could hardly do worse than Jake did this week against the Eagles.

We could also do with some more speed and pressure in the F50 - as we seem to have said for the last several years. Without Bedford for several more weeks, I wonder if we might contemplate Callum Brown as an option. I suspect not - the possible outs would be Kennedy, Lloyd or Peatling - just yet.

I think Kingsley will have weighed up the possible factors in the round 2 defeat, and probably makes less rather than more changes.

The other worry I have is Haynes. While he has intercepted third man up OK, he was really exposed in his 1 v 1 defending, in which he's never been that great. That's a reason why I have postulated Aleer may take his spot sooner rather than later. But it also begs the question of whether HH should take his spot down back in the shorter term. (I wouldn't see HH replacing Buckley, who has been great in these first 2 games of the season IMHO.) HH can do the third man up role pretty well, and I think is a touch better 1 on 1. And HH's counter-attacking kicking is considerably better than Haynes. I'm not saying do it this game, but medium term, if we got Cadman in as KPF, and once Bedford and Jones are raring to go, we could opt for a 2-KPF forward like with more smalls, and Taylor-Buckley-HH-Idun as the tall(ish) defender set-up.

But for this game, I expect L Whitfield & J Kelly in, and J Wehr & H Rowston out. Maybe, also J Riccardi out with A Cadman in. Maybe.
 
After seeing Ward play a full game in the middle I definitely prefer the first game model of him leading the second tier mids, rotating from the forwards. IMO part of his impact in the second half of round 1 was being more rested.
 
Giant Strides said:
I agree that it's another unfortunate quirk of the fixture - given our short turnaround from a WA game (thanks VFL House!) - that reduces the likelihood of us winning this game, which could be winnable given Carlton's habit of dropping away in games.
Click to expand...
Before the West Coast game, I was hopeful of us beating Carlton at home on the strength of the Adelaide comeback. But the shorter turnaround, travel, Carlton’s form and our defeat which took the gloss of our Adelaide win, makes this a hard game for us to win.
Giant Strides said:
If Ward has assumed Pez's midfield role, then Kelly will return for Rowston (presuming he's fit). I thought Rowston cracked in well early against Eagles, and almost kicked a goal, but dropped away in the second quarter and never really came back.

That leaves Riccardi as a separate decision. Like others, I have been hopeful the last couple of years, but a bit despairing of when it will click for him (if ever). I'd be content to pull the trigger this week and debut Cadman at home against the Blues - he could hardly do worse than Jake did this week against the Eagles.
Click to expand...
Yes, 200% agree with Rowston making way for a returning Kelly. Also a good time to debut the number 1 draft pick in front of our home crowd and replacing Riccardi.
Giant Strides said:
I think Kingsley will have weighed up the possible factors in the round 2 defeat, and probably makes less rather than more changes.

The other worry I have is Haynes. While he has intercepted third man up OK, he was really exposed in his 1 v 1 defending, in which he's never been that great. That's a reason why I have postulated Aleer may take his spot sooner rather than later. But it also begs the question of whether HH should take his spot down back in the shorter term. (I wouldn't see HH replacing Buckley, who has been great in these first 2 games of the season IMHO.) HH can do the third man up role pretty well, and I think is a touch better 1 on 1. And HH's counter-attacking kicking is considerably better than Haynes. I'm not saying do it this game, but medium term, if we got Cadman in as KPF, and once Bedford and Jones are raring to go, we could opt for a 2-KPF forward like with more smalls, and Taylor-Buckley-HH-Idun as the tall(ish) defender set-up.

But for this game, I expect L Whitfield & J Kelly in, and J Wehr & H Rowston out. Maybe, also J Riccardi out with A Cadman in. Maybe.
Click to expand...
pity aleer is injured as I agree that he would be a good replacement for Haynes. I don’t think Kingsley will move HH back to the backline, as he had previously stated before the season that HH belongs as a forward. Mind you, Kingsley had Ward training full time as a forward and then moved him back when we had injuries, so it shows Adam can be flexible.

I am very interested to see how Adam reacts to his first defeat as senior coach, and whether he makes minimal changes.
 
MelbourneGWS said:
Before the West Coast game, I was hopeful of us beating Carlton at home on the strength of the Adelaide comeback. But the shorter turnaround, travel, Carlton’s form and our defeat which took the gloss of our Adelaide win, makes this a hard game for us to win.

Yes, 200% agree with Rowston making way for a returning Kelly. Also a good time to debut the number 1 draft pick in front of our home crowd and replacing Riccardi.

pity aleer is injured as I agree that he would be a good replacement for Haynes. I don’t think Kingsley will move HH back to the backline, as he had previously stated before the season that HH belongs as a forward. Mind you, Kingsley had Ward training full time as a forward and then moved him back when we had injuries, so it shows Adam can be flexible.

I am very interested to see how Adam reacts to his first defeat as senior coach, and whether he makes minimal changes.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure how you can feel comfortable debuting Cadman this week with how he played in the VFL? He barely touched it all day and just kicked the one goal, there needs to be real patience with him, fine with dropping Riccardi but don't think Cadman is the answer just yet.
 
Kelly and Whitfield in. We have to win the midfield battle. Will they be without Hewitt and Walsh? Ball coming in quick with their forwards will be game over.
 
Out: Riccardi, Rowston, Wehr
In: Cadman, Kelly, Whitfield

HH got used a bit as the back up ruck i feel this was maybe Kingsley conaidering next week to see if he can backup ruck and almost an in game drop for Riccardi
 
Would be fine with dropping Riccardi but who's the forward that replaces him? Massive ask for it to be Jones, maybe Stone, Cadman, Gruzewski, Mcmullin aren't ready. Happy to give Stone a few games and see what he can deliever but we're not flushed for options, it'll be something we have address again next offseason, adding another small/medium.
 
I agree with what most people are saying. I feel like one possible solution to our forward line issue with Riccardi would be to simply play two rucks. Bring Briggs in and have him combine with Flynn, whoever isn't rucking can be another tall forward for us. So it would look like...

Out: Riccardi, Rowston, Wehr
In: Briggs, Kelly Whitfield
 
Battlepants said:
I agree with what most people are saying. I feel like one possible solution to our forward line issue with Riccardi would be to simply play two rucks. Bring Briggs in and have him combine with Flynn, whoever isn't rucking can be another tall forward for us. So it would look like...

Out: Riccardi, Rowston, Wehr
In: Briggs, Kelly Whitfield
Click to expand...
Definitely couldn’t hurt worse to give it a go considering how Riccardi hasn’t worked at all.
 

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I think that if we are dropping Riccardi it needs to be for Cadman. otherwise, he might as well just keep playing. (unless we change structually and replace a tall with a small)
 
B Cumming Taylor Idun
HB Whitfield Buckley Hamilton
C Callaghan Green Ash
HF Daniels Himmleberg Peatling
F Greene Hogan Lloyd
FOLL- Flynn Coniglio Kelly
I/C- Ward, Briggs, Haynes, Stone
Sub- Kennedy
 
Mikevk123 said:
B Cumming Taylor Idun
HB Whitfield Buckley Hamilton
C Callaghan Green Ash
HF Daniels Himmleberg Peatling
F Greene Hogan Lloyd
FOLL- Flynn Coniglio Kelly
I/C- Ward, Briggs, Haynes, Stone
Sub- Kennedy
Click to expand...
This is pretty much exactly how I would do it, except I think I'd rather have Kenners in the starting 22 and Stone as the sub.
 
so Wehr out for a couple of months and Kelly and Whitfield in as expected. The article talks up the prospect of Cadman debuting (“headline inclusion”/ “continues to firm for his AFL inclusion”) but Kingsley seems to be downplaying that (“He's here for a career but more than happy to bring him in when the time is right."). Kingsley also seems to be considering Brigg as the second ruck.

www.afl.com.au

Wehr and tear: Battered Giant out for months, AA pair set to return

After two big hits in the opening fortnight, Jacob Wehr will be sidelined for a number of weeks
www.afl.com.au www.afl.com.au
 
MelbourneGWS said:
Before the West Coast game, I was hopeful of us beating Carlton at home on the strength of the Adelaide comeback. But the shorter turnaround, travel, Carlton’s form and our defeat which took the gloss of our Adelaide win, makes this a hard game for us to win.

Yes, 200% agree with Rowston making way for a returning Kelly. Also a good time to debut the number 1 draft pick in front of our home crowd and replacing Riccardi.

pity aleer is injured as I agree that he would be a good replacement for Haynes. I don’t think Kingsley will move HH back to the backline, as he had previously stated before the season that HH belongs as a forward. Mind you, Kingsley had Ward training full time as a forward and then moved him back when we had injuries, so it shows Adam can be flexible.

I am very interested to see how Adam reacts to his first defeat as senior coach, and whether he makes minimal changes.
Click to expand...
At least we played them twice last year, should know the players well. No walsh helps alot for us. We need Kelly and Whitfield.
 
My goodness, look at all those quad and hamstring injuries. Never ends.....

Riccardi out, Cadman in.

Would prefer HH down back, but that can't happen if dropping Riccardi.

Not a like-for-like, but agreed with earlier posters, play 2 talls and bring in Briggs for Wehr.

I don't like the use of part-time rucks against specialist ruckmen. Our injury list is bad enough without an undersized ruck getting pummelled.

So 2 players to drop, if Whitfield and Kelly are cleared.
 
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