List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part II

[George]

So true George. As a former top 10 pick now heading into his prime years, I've got no doubt that we're going to sign him on a lucrative long term contract that will ensure such a talented player will stay with us and help shape our future moving forward.

Despite getting dropped/being named sub multiple times this year in a team who is openly in the market for more mids.

No doubt at all that we will be rushing for his signature.

Who is saying we're going to sign him on a lucrative long term deal that'll help shape our future?

My point is that he has played 16 games, clearly part of our best side in 2023, and the talk about him not being good enough is hilarious.

 

[George]

Josh Gabelich -

STARRING SAINT TO HIT TRIGGER​

ST KILDA has a backlog of list management decisions to make in the second half of 2023, but Mason Wood won't be one of them.

The 29-year-old is about to hit a trigger that will secure him another year at Moorabbin.

Wood signed a one-year extension last October with a games clause that will see him remain at RSEA Park for a fourth season.

So is Jade Gresham, who's played 19 games.

Do you understand the point I'm making, or no?

What does a player being out of contract have to do with them having no place in our best side for 2023? That's what I'm discussing. Couldn't give a stuff about what he does at the end of the year. There's talk that he is no good for our side right now. That's hilarious stuff.

 

[saintmike65]

Not sure it would make sense to replace a 28 year old with a 19 year old who won't grow into his body for 5+ years.

As opposed to a 28 year old prone to brain fades who’s body shape hasn’t changed in 7 years!!

 

[stavro#4]

So is Jade Gresham, who's played 19 games.

Do you understand the point I'm making, or no?

What does a player being out of contract have to do with them having no place in our best side for 2023?

The point is that after being close to a new deal and 3 months later nothing has happened, Clark is now on the periphery of the side. It’s doesn’t back up your point of him being in our best side when the whips are cracking.

It points to Clark being on the outer.

 

[Bertha]

I think because when you watch them as very biased spectators in a stressful scenario, then every little mistake is magnified. And when you notice a mistake or two, then the next ones are amplified even more. If we were to do it, then this would seem to be peak time given almost desperation for some teams to grab one.

it's a great point and possibly as supporters that bias might mean we miss some of the positives as well.

That said, get Gresh out of the middle and bump his contract value up at his next club as a forward, hahaha

 

[George]

The point is that after being close to a new deal and 3 months later nothing has happened, Clark is now on the periphery of the side. It’s doesn’t back up your point of him being in our best side when the whips are cracking.

It points to Clark being on the outer.

We've been fighting for a spot in the bottom half of the eight for the majority of the season and Clark has played a majority of the season.

As for his place in the team moving forward, I'm not wedded to any player anymore. I'm sick of waiting so I don't particularly care who stays or goes if it ultimately makes us better.

 

[saintmike65]

The point is that after being close to a new deal and 3 months later nothing has happened, Clark is now on the periphery of the side. It’s doesn’t back up your point of him being in our best side when the whips are cracking.

It points to Clark being on the outer.

Ross Lyon has 1 non negotiable…100% effort, anything less & you don’t play.
Hunter Clark plays within himself, doesn’t have either the tank or the inclination to be a two way runner!

 

[SaintsofSteel]

bird_man lets also talk about Paton.
I like Paton. I’d prefer to keep
Him. But again, he is also limited as a footballer and I’m not sure what his strength is anymore. Does a lot of things okay and nothing brilliantly at AFL level.

Personally I’d give Coffield a 1 year deal.

I can understand players wanting more stability than 1 year deals, particularly when their value drops due to injuries in the work place rather than form, ability or age. As a club its a about finding the right balance of potential re list requirements. Coffield would be entitled to ask for a longer contract to lock in his future, I dont think offerring a 1 year deal to a young player like Coffield serves anything other than forcing him out of the club. Hopefully that is not the case?

Many players have significant injuries and return to be very good players - I believe Coffield would be one.

 

[saintmike65]

Who are you dropping from our current 22 for Coffield?

Battle - no
Wilkie - no
Sharman - no
Cordy - no

You need to have a squad mentality, besides, Jimmy Webster is getting towards the end!

 

[stavro#4]

I can understand players wanting more stability than 1 year deals, particularly when their value drops due to injuries in the work place rather than form, ability or age. As a club its a about finding the right balance of potential re list requirements. Coffield would be entitled to ask for a longer contract to lock in his future, I dont think offerring a 1 year deal to a young player like Coffield serves anything other than forcing him out of the club. Hopefully that is not the case?

Many players have significant injuries and return to be very good players - I believe Coffield would be one.

I would be shocked if a club offered Coffield an outright 2 year deal - especially if he doesn’t string together some good AFL games this season - which looks highly unlikely right now.

It’s a cut throat industry. You can’t keep holding players because of perceived talent. They need to get on the park and show it.

Which unfortunately Coffield hasn’t been able to and I’m huge fan of him. But a 1 year deal would seem more then fair

 

[saintmike65]

Maybe instead of having a go at me, get down to training and see for yourself. Jesus, I tell you what I see with my eyes, but get shItcanned for it.
Anybody else who goes to training, is there a noticable change to Coffield's size or not over the past two seasons?

Coffield has certainly filled out, he’s now a similar size to his mate Jack Hayes

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

I would be shocked if a club offered Coffield an outright 2 year deal - especially if he doesn’t string together some good AFL games this season - which looks highly unlikely right now.

It’s a cut throat industry. You can’t keep holding players because of perceived talent. They need to get on the park and show it.

Which unfortunately Coffield hasn’t been able to and I’m huge fan of him. But a 1 year deal would seem more then fair

I'd have no issues with Coff getting 2 years.

It's not like he's a 25+ bloke who's injury prone.

 

[stavro#4]

I'd have no issues with Coff getting 2 years.

It's not like he's a 25+ bloke who's injury prone.

There is absolutely no guarantee he is at the level anymore unless he can get on the park and show us.

You wouldn’t throw him a 2 year deal unless he could

 

[StCicatriz]

because Clark played this year doesnt mean he will be playing there next year. if you look at it from Ross's POV what other option does he have other than to try and use Clark effectively? there is no one else to draw from? Bytel has bigger problems with his tank, doesn't get near it enough. there are no more options. Jones was probably it and hes been injured. so you're left making the best of a bad situation, hence his public comments on the midfield and why someone like Ross continues to get game time.

this is part of the reason Ross has had issues with the midfield. there are no more options to pull from.

but to think it will continue like this into next year and Clark will continue to get games is a huge assumption to make.
1) Pou, Owens and Windhager will each have another year of development. Pou is the one that will take Clarks spot in a heart beat,
2) we will have more players coming through the door. new draftees and existing senior players. some of which will force the previous mentioned group to go from time fwd/back to pushing more minutes in the midfield. but if there are existing senior players coming through that can play midfield it means Clark is effectively done in there.

it's just not sustainable. he has to be moved on. otherwise we'll end up delisting him and getting nothing for him in a couple of years.

 

[StCicatriz]

There is absolutely no guarantee he is at the level anymore unless he can get on the park and show us.

You wouldn’t throw him a 2 year deal unless he could

he's in the lonie camp IMO his management will be pushing for a 2 year deal and we'd probably offer 1. hence there's talk.

 

[StCicatriz]

I think he was gassed to be fair.

He ran continuously for a good 2 minutes before we turned that particular ball over. He runs defensively, then spreads to the right forward pocket when Higgins gets a free, and when we switch behind play he crosses over to the left forward pocket in order to try and get on the end of a passing chain.

And while he is struggling in that clip you can visibly see him put his head down and try.

So his mindset is right. His capability is not.

I think Ross values his ball skills, and the boss just might believe he can motivate Hunter to transform his body shape and make him more productive.

This trade period will reveal all.

you can re-watch the footage but there was no hard running that lead up to this. it's worth nothing he hasnt even played a full qtr at this point. the guys around him have played near on a full game.

there are no excuses here. the spread just aint there. he has no pace. he's clearly doing everything he can to keep up when in the moment but he physically just can't.

the only out i'd give him is if he's carrying injury. given the knee is heavily bandaged but that's guess work.

 

[LeonardHayes87]

I really like Clark as a player.. kicks off either foot, great balance and toughness, but he strikes me as a guy who loves playing the game but not necessarily all the extra physical requirements associated with it. For a player to be in their 5th year and have arm definition equivalent to my 14 year old niece tells me they don't exactly enjoy the weight room. So when you consider his lack of leg speed (can't really play outside) and his lack of strength (can't really play inside), where does he fit in?

He's got enough talent to jog around and get 20 touches at AFL level but is that what you want from a pick 7? I suspect if a club offered a second round pick the Saints would take it and run because players like Mitchito and Phillipou will go past him in the pecking order for midfield minutes next year, if they havent already.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

I would be shocked if a club offered Coffield an outright 2 year deal - especially if he doesn’t string together some good AFL games this season - which looks highly unlikely right now.

It’s a cut throat industry. You can’t keep holding players because of perceived talent. They need to get on the park and show it.

Which unfortunately Coffield hasn’t been able to and I’m huge fan of him. But a 1 year deal would seem more then fair

Twomey seemed pretty confident he wont be at the club next year, so he must know something about his future? I guess if the club are offered something reasonable for him and have another player in mind to fill that position than he is expendable. We have held onto similiar players in the past and they havent improved or remained injury prone and consequently have lost any trade value. So perhaps its the club making some very tough calls in the interest of improving the list?

Otherwise surely the club could offer a deal with triggers, if he doesnt meet the triggers then move him on. Its not like he hasnt played decent footy in the past, he has and he would be the perfect replacement for Webster who is 30 yo.

 

[Captain Paddy]

what's peoples thoughts on this? personally i don't think there's anything we can do with Clark with two way running like this. the guy looks absoluely gassed and he hasn't even played a qtr, everyone else on the field has played near on 4. if richnmond didnt fumble that ball its a certain goal purely because he cant run with a guy.

clark

Image clark hosted in Gifyu

gifyu.com

He's come on fresh as the sub and is running up the middle like it's the last 100m of a 5km sprint

Jesus christ, as a club we probably should've got someone in to work on his technique tbh. Looks like he over strides which can go back to a lack of calf strength possibly.

People with bad/weak calfs tend to stride further thinking it will make them be quicker when it's really the propulsion from the calves that help

 

[StCicatriz]

I really like Clark as a player.. kicks off either foot, great balance and toughness, but he strikes me as a guy who loves playing the game but not necessarily all the extra physical requirements associated with it. For a player to be in their 5th year and have arm definition equivalent to my 14 year old niece tells me they don't exactly enjoy the weight room. So when you consider his lack of leg speed (can't really play outside) and his lack of strength (can't really play inside), where does he fit in?

He's got enough talent to jog around and get 20 touches at AFL level but is that what you want from a pick 7? I suspect if a club offered a second round pick the Saints would take it and run because players like Mitchito and Phillipou will go past him in the pecking order for midfield minutes next year, if they havent already.

you are absolutely spot on and its already happened. check out the time on ground... anyone wanna pick out the first year player vs the 6th year player... the arrow indicates they played as a sub or were subbed out:




ones got the tank to potentially move into the midfield. the other doesn't and never will unless something drastically changes.

 

[Captain Paddy]

Imagine Ross in the box watching that run through the middle from Clark lol

Release the tapes on that conversation

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Coffield has certainly filled out, he’s now a similar size to his mate Jack Hayes

Not true!!!, on Saints profile list anyways. He's more like Owens size. Owens 191cm-91kg, Coffield 191cm-90kg, +2kgs from his previous season. Just for comparison, Phillipou is 190,88kg.
Jack Hayes is 194cm-94kgs, +2 kgs from his previous season

 

[Captain Paddy]

Not true!!!, on Saints profile list anyways. He's more like Owens size. Owens 191cm-91kg, Coffield 191cm-90kg, +2kgs from his previous season. Just for comparison, Phillipou is 190,88kg.
Jack Hayes is 194cm-94kgs, +2 kgs from his previous season

Never seen a group of people so invested in the size of other men

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Never seen a group of people so invested in the size of other men

Hawkins 197cm-105kgs v King Cordy 195cm-92kgs Battle 193cm-93kgs, Wilkie 191cm-89kgs

 

[gringo2011]

Blacres has has a turn in form that has matched Carlscum's turnaround.

He was ordinary at best for the 1st half of the season (& cost them the game v Richmond from memory).

The hyperbole is that he's a better player than Hill.

In good form currently but he's done that before & dropped off.

Was that the first round of the year? He's had a great season. My Blues family members all love him and laugh at how cheap they got him. He seemed to get them on side very early and they are still fans. Makes me want to spew hearing them call him "Blakey" and "Bakers" and shit. ****ing cringe.

Just looked at his stats, looks like his best form started in our first game in round 6 with 36 and backed it up the next with 34 and a goal. He looks to have had a very even season but he's had some match winning moments in the last month and half.