List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part II

[pebblesofsand]

Well, we'll see how it turns out I guess. I'm pretty sure you understand what my position is. I looks like more gambling over planning again. And in 5 years we'll see where we've gone. I'll back Lyon to maximise what ever he has in front of him but we aren't building for a flag anytime soon IMO. Not really sure we have a clear idea on where we are going again. I guess I'll take what ever s**t we dish up and we'll be back there again next year.

Gambling???? Its all a gamble.

We're gambling if we match an offer for Gresham that's above what we think he's worth.

We are gambling if we pick up Paddy Dow instead of going to the draft.

We are gambling when we go to the draft instead of picking up Liam Henry.

Assuming we have the salary cap space, if coughing up an extra $400K to pay Shiel instead of Gresham, gets us Pick 13 instead of Pick 31 (or overpaying Gresham), that's a pretty reasonable gamble.

 

[gringo2011]

Hotton, Keeler & Van Es to rise next year

I think that they definitely could but once you have too many kids performance starts to get less consistent. We had a younger side than North and West Coast some weeks as it is.

 

[RWB4life]

Pretty ordinary player imo but he’s young and a good size maybe he has plenty of upside, I wonder what richmond supporters think of him as a player.

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiY_arJy7yBAxUPyDgGHStLB1oQFnoECBsQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fcentral.rookieme.com%2Fafl%2Fplayer%2Fhugo-ralphsmith%2F&usg=AOvVaw0X0wUU0h3W241rwjqtImlX&opi=89978449

That‘s an impressive write up, ticks a lot of boxes.

Write up makes him sound like what we want billings to be as that hff

 

[gringo2011]

It’s the first round pick that’s the reason to bother and renting Shiel for a season to provide us a good option. A different midfield option for it.

It’s a great deal

He's not getting us a first, we are getting them a bit more space in their cap to pay more for Gresham to get a 4 place pick upgrade or something.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

I think we can put this down to Ralph being drunk or high. Or stupid, but we all know that's the case anyway.

The quid pro quo doesn't work. The benefit for you would be getting the pick 13 to help with the Henry deal. Which makes no sense for us. The benefit for us would be getting that pick as part of the deal, which makes no sense for you. It's just bizarre

Look at it this way, you guys owe Shiel say $700k for 2024.

We say, we’ll take that $700k on if you pay Gresh another $150-200k that triggers band 1 compo for us. $500k back in your pocket there.

We also flick you a 3rd rounder for your trouble.

So you get Gresh $500k room in your cap & a pick on the late 40’s.

We get pick 13 & someone to keep Dmac company in the rehab group next year.

It makes good sense for both clubs.

And we’re not paying Freo anything close to pick 13 for Henry.


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[BrutThough]

Are we actually guaranteeing him game time in the seniors? He’s had injuries. Young kids will get plenty of time in there. How old is Jones? If he was fit he’d probably be playing.

RTB got a lot of games into the kids this season. He mentioned it constantly. I very much doubt he’d be throwing that plan out the window.

How many of those games were played as midfielders?

 

[gringo2011]

Lol but Shiel is how you get pick 13. Don’t think of Shiel as the Gresham replacement.
Like you said you can’t replace duds with duds that’s why we need pick 13.
Now excuse me while I go get a packet of chips.

13 in a shit draft is unlikely to reap a player as good as Gresham and probably takes 5 years to work out. Guys like Sinclair will be finishing up by the time these kids come on. I reckon we are having a bet each way between full rebuild and playing for now and not really clear on a path.

We'll need to import a bunch of guys Gresham's age and will cost more than pick 13 if we want to find good ones if we aren't looking at another rebuild.

 

[bird_man]

"There will be strong interest from the Bombers, Melbourne, Collingwood and St Kilda, to name a few," AFL reporter Tom Browne revealed to Triple M.

"He is out of contract and a restricted free agent at the end of next year, and clubs will come hard.

Well that's wrong

He's still got 3 years

 

[#gosaintas]

Well that's wrong

He's still got 3 years

bugger

 

[OxSaint]

We don't need the cap relief next year. Plus overpaying for Gresham offsets that and then multiplies it for an extra two or three years.

And Hobbs was getting midfield minutes ahead of Shiel towards the end of the year anyway, if he stays Shiel will probably be mostly half forward next year anyway. So the scenario doesn't work if we're not getting pick 13 as part of the deal.

Considering fitting Parish in seemed to be an issue all year I don’t think you have the salary cap space you think. Not to mention the fact that you can pay 95% and load up for the next year when there are a heap of tall forwards out of contract. Shaking a high price mid you don’t need out of the tree makes more sense than paying an an average key back who barely plays $800K through FA

 

[pebblesofsand]

It’s the first round pick that’s the reason to bother and renting Shiel for a season to provide us a good option. A different midfield option for it.

It’s a great deal

If we don’t get creative with the Gresham deal and end up getting band 2 compo that’s when you end up replacing him with a dud.
Feel way more relaxed replacing him with a band 1 compo pick.
If that means adopting Shiel for a bit I’m all in.

Good choice of words fella's (I'll add "babysit") - sums up perfectly what we have to do to be able to upgrade the compo we get if Gresham leaves.

 

[beside the seaside]

I don't really get the concept of that Shiel/Gresham deal for Essendon. Seems like we get a lot out of it and they get nothing. For example they overpay Gresh so they can get Shiel off the books? If we can make it work then we take it and run but there has to be something more there for Essendon.

 

[BrutThough]

After Geelong GC deal last year, anything is possible

On SM-G988B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Geelong essentially buying a pick off GC is different than openly rorting the AFL compensation system where the AFL has shut down deals trying to do so before.

 

[gringo2011]

Good call, I'll leave it to you experts that fawned over Tom Jonas a week before he retired

You know how the board runs at trade time. We all talk up how brilliant we are at trade time and every year **** it up and stand still. Like a gambling addict that just needs another $100 to bet their way out of their massive debt. We are meant to be building a list not moving a lot of shit around for the sake of it.

 

[eth-dog]

Look at it this way, you guys owe Shiel say $700k for 2024.

We say, we’ll take that $700k on if you pay Gresh another $150-200k that triggers band 1 compo for us. $500k back in your pocket there.

We also flick you a 3rd rounder for your trouble.

So you get Gresh $500k room in your cap & a pick on the late 40’s.

We get pick 13 & someone to keep Dmac company in the rehab group next year.

It makes good sense for both clubs.

And we’re not paying Freo anything close to pick 13 for Henry.


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That would make sense if we needed cap relief, but we're not. In fact we're pretty keen to see the "buy cap space" agreement go through so we can essentially buy a first round pick from someone who needs it.

Our current offer is apparently about band 2 money. You'd get pick 19. If you match you would be getting pick 27 instead. We probably only use 3-4 picks in the draft anyway so trading Shiel for a pick we probably don't use for cap relief that we don't need doesn't really make sense.

 

[eth-dog]

Considering fitting Parish in seemed to be an issue all year I don’t think you have the salary cap space you think. Not to mention the fact that you can pay 95% and load up for the next year when there are a heap of tall forwards out of contract. Shaking a high price mid you don’t need out of the tree makes more sense than paying an an average key back who barely plays $800K through FA

Fitting Parish under the cap? Mate we've been front loading deals to make the floor. We're also not offering 800k to McKay.

 

[saintmike65]

Is Shiel a better kick than Gresh? If yes then get crackin

I’m tipping 90% of players in the comp are better kicks than Gresham!!!

 

[gringo2011]

The material benefit is freeing yourself up from a significantly large contract on a player which is no longer inside your best 22 players.

In a competition which utilises a standardised salary cap across all teams, every team is constantly looking to restructure their TPP to gain as much competitive advantage as possible. Ensuring that the majority of your cap is tied to your regular 22 is a part of this.

Besides, if it's the difference in paying Jade $100-150k more over 3-4 years to ensure we don't match, then why wouldn't you?

Ultimately, we've been up front with him, his manager, and other clubs. Come to the party, get us high compensation, or we will match.. it's that simple.

This is what I don't understand either. Just tell Essendon that we'll match and and make them pay him enough to trigger pick 13. Why end up with Shiel? Seems like SOS and Gubby fetishising their ex GWS stuff ups as well as the Carlton ones.

 

[saintmike65]

If we don’t get creative with the Gresham deal and end up getting band 2 compo that’s when you end up replacing him with a dud.
Feel way more relaxed replacing him with a band 1 compo pick.
If that means adopting Shiel for a bit I’m all in.

I’m starting to doubt the validity of this Shiel thing…you’d think all outlets would be all over this if it’s legit?

 

[PoppedCorn]

Get this season over with already
Can’t wait for the trade meltage to start

 

[Tommy Wigs]

I don't really get the concept of that Shiel/Gresham deal for Essendon. Seems like we get a lot out of it and they get nothing. For example they overpay Gresh so they can get Shiel off the books? If we can make it work then we take it and run but there has to be something more there for Essendon.

I was asking the same question yesterday, but they also avoid paying a pick for Gresham (let’s say their second rd) and probably get something back (maybe our second).

 

[gringo2011]

Oh come on Gringo.. based on this year’s output, apart from Howard who regularly played although on questionable form (his brain fades and lack of awareness is Harry Maguire esque), others have been injury hit or can’t break into the side.. how many years do you stick with a player before you say enough is enough? Billings (10 years), Clark, Coffield (6 years), yes we have not had much luck in the last 10 years, but that’s not the reason to base your future on hope, hope that Billings will become a superstar after 10 years in the system.

You have to replace them with an upgrade or there is no point. Are any getting us enough return to replace with an upgrade? Getting late picks for middling players won't make us better. We paid a fortune to get a lot of similar level players in a few years back.

Remember when the nuffies on here wanked off on how great we did selling McEvoy....then spent more on Hickey and Longer to replace him? So far we've had to pay ups lot to replace the middlers and lost a generation of talent to do it. We'll be straight back to buying up middlers for top dollar in 2 seasons. These guys haven't been stars but not every player needs to be.

 

[gringo2011]

Pretty ordinary player imo but he’s young and a good size maybe he has plenty of upside, I wonder what richmond supporters think of him as a player.

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiY_arJy7yBAxUPyDgGHStLB1oQFnoECBsQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fcentral.rookieme.com%2Fafl%2Fplayer%2Fhugo-ralphsmith%2F&usg=AOvVaw0X0wUU0h3W241rwjqtImlX&opi=89978449

That‘s an impressive write up, ticks a lot of boxes.

I spoke to my Tigers mate who used to love him. Seems to have stalled. Probably a bit of Clark/Coff type of player who's lost the new car smell and is now just a filler on a list but still young enough to maybe come good. Better player than the Sandy level guys we delisted I guess.

 

[saintmike65]

The material benefit is freeing yourself up from a significantly large contract on a player which is no longer inside your best 22 players.

In a competition which utilises a standardised salary cap across all teams, every team is constantly looking to restructure their TPP to gain as much competitive advantage as possible. Ensuring that the majority of your cap is tied to your regular 22 is a part of this.

Besides, if it's the difference in paying Jade $100-150k more over 3-4 years to ensure we don't match, then why wouldn't you?

Ultimately, we've been up front with him, his manager, and other clubs. Come to the party, get us high compensation, or we will match.. it's that simple.

It’s a not dissimilar situation to the Brad Crouch one…Adelaide were keen for band one comp for him!

 

[Diehard Saint]

How many of those games were played as midfielders?

Not many this season, granted, but very few kids go straight into midfield permanently. I think he’ll continue to drip feed them in through the season. Don’t see where it’ll hurt to have Shiel there as a back up as well.

I believe Ross is definitely going about things with an eye to the future. He mentioned the Cats earlier on on a few occasions, he likes their plan - they always introduced youth while still contending. Think that’s what he’ll be trying to do.

My thoughts anyway.