List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part II

[SaintsSeptember]

Ross has stated a million times that the Saints want to keep Gresham, but Gresham does not want to stay. Why would we keep him then?

Also, Gresham barely played any midfield this season. The times he did play well, he played zero midfield. He plays full time forward and still only averages a goal a game.

We would keep him because we can.
We would let him go because they are offering him more than we are prepared to pay him.
Gresham doesn't want to go, Gresham wants more money.

 

[Remboy]

I’m getting more confused with every post. Can someone please clarify what flavour chips we‘re getting as part of the Shiel mega deal?
My main concern is we won’t have enough currency for Heeney after we give up 12 & 13 for Shiel.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I’m getting more confused with every post. Can someone please clarify what flavour chips we‘re getting as part of the Shiel mega deal?
My main concern is we won’t have enough currency for Heeney after we give up 12 & 13 for Shiel.

The theory is , that Essendon won't want to pay Gresham enough to make him a first round pick compensation for free agency.
But ...if we did a Shiel trade , at his high salary, they would be happy to pay Gresham a bit more to make him a first round pick.

BUT

You would need it to be a handshake agreement. Either the Free agency deal , or the trade would need to go through first, as a separate event. Leaving the second team with the opportunity to stiff the first team.

Whole thing is highly shonky and won't happen because these things never do.

 

[MordySaint]

really trying to stay away from this dumpster fire of a thread but the lack of understanding of the proposal is infuriating.

Quite simply

1. Essendon offer Gresham enough to activate band1 which would be pick 13.

Advantages for Essendon - they wont need to trade for a matched Gresham
Advantage for St.Kilda - pick 13 to go with pick 12

2. For doing the above, St.Kilda trades for Dylan Shiel with a later pick

Advantage for Essendon - the difference in the extra they offered Gresham to Sheils full salary.
Advantage for St.Kilda - still the same as above but get a ready made mid who would bolster the depth of our thin midfield.

Scenario - Essendon what a higher pick that originally worked out in the deal (say 13 instead of 31).

They can't offer Gresham less as FA is much earlier than trading so Saints still get band 1 and they still have 5 to 7 hundred k on their books with a player behind about 7 other mids, and don't have the extra draft pick.

the deal will have to be worked out prior and in good faith...but as outlined above the Saints would have the whip hand if Dildoro tried any shenanigans.

It is not a difficult concept. Will it eventuate? Who knows, but the gnashing of teeth and howling at the moon when the basic premis is a first for a player leaving anyway is astounding.

Understand this, but I reckon Shiel is cooked. The thought of getting an aging Bomber on our list has triggered me.

Don't want him anywhere near Moorabbin.

There's a perfectly good midfield position for him on the Gold Coast at the Suns.

 

[kernelT]

I’m getting more confused with every post. Can someone please clarify what flavour chips we‘re getting as part of the Shiel mega deal?
My main concern is we won’t have enough currency for Heeney after we give up 12 & 13 for Shiel.

I'm hearing the chips are deja vu vindaloo flavour, tasty as… but you pay through arse when it's all too late x rinse repeat.

 

[bird_man]

With McKay set to leave, I’m sure we could package up #13 (sheil compo) and Dougal Howard for Norf #3

Norf will pick up an experienced KPD plus a look in at either Sullivan or Murphy as a KPD.

If they want Clark to sweeten the deal then I’m sure more changes of picks could occur.

Zero chance I reckon

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Understand this, but I reckon Shiel is cooked. The thought of getting an aging Bomber on our list has triggered me.

Don't want him anywhere near Moorabbin.

There's a perfectly good midfield position for him on the Gold Coast at the Suns.

What did you think about The Cats getting a first round pick to get a spud player from GC last year?
I'd have happily taken Bowes for a while to get that pick.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Wow - I didn't know Ameet Bains was involved in this as well. Winmar2Lockett will have me over a barrel for referring to these non-facts

You mean our list manager made a comment in the media?

I take back everything I said.

[emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[akaifu]

We would keep him because we can.
We would let him go because they are offering him more than we are prepared to pay him.
Gresham doesn't want to go, Gresham wants more money.

We're not gonna keep someone that doesn't want to be here, that never works. Especially someone who isn't a top player and is expendable. Gresham is leaving for more playing time at the MCG and the money

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Understand this, but I reckon Shiel is cooked. The thought of getting an aging Bomber on our list has triggered me.

Don't want him anywhere near Moorabbin.

There's a perfectly good midfield position for him on the Gold Coast at the Suns.

He can go fishing for a year for all we care, we'd be paying his Salary in exchange for them paying Gresham a bit extra.

 

[akaifu]

Understand this, but I reckon Shiel is cooked. The thought of getting an aging Bomber on our list has triggered me.

Don't want him anywhere near Moorabbin.

There's a perfectly good midfield position for him on the Gold Coast at the Suns.

Wouldn't be surprised if youre right, but also have a look at his start to this season when he was playing full time mid. It's worth the risk

 

[Diehard Saint]

I'm the opposite. Absolute Lyon fan but his list management has never been good at either club. What he wants doesn't always leave lists in a better places. He'll dilute the talent for soldiers that do his bidding.

I don’t believe that for one minute. Every coach wants stars.
Just because he is known for getting the best out of GOPs does not mean he wants a list full of them.

Lyon has been out of clubland for a while. I find it hard to believe he wouldn’t have learnt and changed from his time in the media.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Check behind the mirror, loads of smoke

Thanks Trav.

 

[austinnn]

It’s a not dissimilar situation to the Brad Crouch one…Adelaide were keen for band one comp for him!

Except for a couple of differences:


Brad requested to leave, and iirc nominated us

Adelaide didn't incentivise us to trigger a higher band of compensation, just made threats about matching

 

[MordySaint]

Understand totally. Made my mind up weeks ago we had to get a top 5 pick to get a Duursma or Sanders as we will never get that opportunity with the AFL allowing GC free picks and Norf free picks to take all the good young mids.

I will take a giant bite of the Shiel s.hit sandwich, if it means we can do that.

This is way too much dejavu for me to take.

Give up Pick 7 for Bombers "star" Carlisle and the eventual Gresham

Trade Gresham to the Bombers and get another Essendon "star" in return

Lets hope we nail the return pick on some young superstar like Duursma or Sanders.

 

[JediSaint]

Gold Coast #4 = 2,034

St Kilda #12 = 1,268
Theoretical #13 = 1,212

Total of #12 and #13 = 2,480
(Allowing for one pick movement lower due to matching, this becomes 2,373)

That is more points than any other team could reasonably offer (with the exception of GWS who might offer both #6 and #15 for a two pick upgrade, they have a history of doing this - see Cadman last year - whether they do it again??).

So, yeah.
That might be the end game.

#4 definitely gets Sanders, and one of McKercher or Duursma you’d think.

Plus GC will have all these later picks that they cannot use.
They might have value to someone.

Suns have already amassed a bunch of picks for their Academy kids, but not enough. You wouldn’t need to offload both Frnd picks.

Draft pick enough for them to qualify and possibly a wanted player might sweeten the deal

 

[kernelT]

Understand totally. Made my mind up weeks ago we had to get a top 5 pick to get a Duursma or Sanders as we will never get that opportunity with the AFL allowing GC free picks and Norf free picks to take all the good young mids.

I will take a giant bite of the Shiel s.hit sandwich, if it means we can do that.

If we can orchestrate a 10+ year elite mid from all of this then I have no problem with the proposed deal.

But it's hard to get excited about it with our track record of utter carnage.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Surely this isn't accurate?

Why would we do a deal to take on Shiels salary to get a first round compo for Gresh only to give them a high end pick?

OMG it’s the Gresh, Carlisle, David King saga all over again!

 

[stavro#4]

Relevant to the Gresham state of play?

 

[Diehard Saint]

So its:

In: Pick 13
Out: Gresham and a 2nd rounder

But it’s what we can potentially do with pick 13.

 

[akaifu]

McKay nominates Essendon on a massive contract. Even more reason for them to need to salary dump Shiel now

 

[Silkie]

This is way too much dejavu for me to take.

Give up Pick 7 for Bombers "star" Carlisle and the eventual Gresham

Trade Gresham to the Bombers and get another Essendon "star" in return

Lets hope we nail the return pick on some young superstar like Duursma or Sanders.

Isn’t that the whole point? It’s just icing on the cake if Shiel plays a few games and takes the load off our mids.

 

[Mangus]

I reckon the only reason you'd move up is to get to 4 to get McKercher or maybe Duursma which would probably be a good get in McKercher's case. Or a pick around 8 for Sanders which is more of a gamble. Looks more of a GOP type. I'd rather take the 2 later picks and gamble on Wilson or Windsor and Demattia or something. If we get mid table there is no guarantees the player we want is there still and then you are looking at KPs which I don't think should be spending up big on.

All my opinion but generally consistent with Cal Twomey and others.
There are a clear top 6 in the draft that seem to be locked those early picks then another 6 of quality before the steep drop off in class this draft. Fairly normal draft year similar to last year where Phillipou was the last of the top end ranked at 10 before it became more speculative.

However this year:

• 3 of the 12 are GC Academy so untouchable
• North will be a FA comp pick for McKay at pick 3
• and seems like they will also get the mid first round comp pick at pick 11

Elite
1. WC - Reid (clear number 1)
2. GC - Walter (clear number2) GC Academy

Next batch
3. Nth - McKercher
4. Nth - Dursma (Ben McKay FA Comp)
5. Haw - Watson
6. GC - Curtin (Original pick 4 up for grabs)

Then (in my order of preference)
7. Mel - Sanders
8. GWS - O'Sullivan
9. Geel - Caddy
10. GC - Ethan Reid GC Academy
11. GC - Rodgers GC Academy
12. Ess - Wilson
13. Adel
14. WB
15. Nth - (Comp Pick for very poor performance)
16. Syd
17. StK
18. Stk - (Highly speculative Band 1 Comp pick for Gresham)

After 12 it is a throw of the dice different clubs will have wildly different draft orders after that

Of the top 12 only the GC pick 4 (6) is up for trade and I can't see anyone else wanting to split a pick for two in the teens

If we are keen on Sanders the GC pick is the only option and if we hold 12 and 13 (17,18) that out bids the WB.

So if that is our strategy it seems sound if McKercher or Dursma slide to 6 which I think is unlikely well you have a lucky choice to make but Sanders will be there and equally he will be gone by Essendon's current pick 8 (12)

Saying all that seems unlikely we pull off both the Gresham Band 1 and the GC pick 4 deal and Sanders would have a lot of pressure to be the gun mid we need.

Also he is Tasmanian and a likely target for them in a few years

Still I prefer we have a plan to move in the draft to get the players we rate rather than sit and take best available at our picks. Sitting still in both Trade and Draft will not move the needle.

 

[nobhead]

really trying to stay away from this dumpster fire of a thread but the lack of understanding of the proposal is infuriating.

Quite simply

1. Essendon offer Gresham enough to activate band1 which would be pick 13.

Advantages for Essendon - they wont need to trade for a matched Gresham
Advantage for St.Kilda - pick 13 to go with pick 12

2. For doing the above, St.Kilda trades for Dylan Shiel with a later pick

Advantage for Essendon - the difference in the extra they offered Gresham to Sheils full salary.
An extra pick.
Advantage for St.Kilda - still the same as above but get a ready made mid who would bolster the depth of our thin midfield.

Scenario - Essendon what a higher pick that originally worked out in the deal (say 13 instead of 31).

They can't offer Gresham less as FA is much earlier than trading so Saints still get band 1 and they still have 5 to 7 hundred k on their books with a player behind about 7 other mids, and don't have the extra draft pick.

the deal will have to be worked out prior and in good faith...but as outlined above the Saints would have the whip hand if Dildoro tried any shenanigans.

It is not a difficult concept. Will it eventuate? Who knows, but the gnashing of teeth and howling at the moon when the basic premis is a first for a player leaving anyway is astounding.

Suns have already amassed a bunch of picks for their Academy kids, but not enough. You wouldn’t need to offload both Frnd picks.

Draft pick enough for them to qualify and possibly a wanted player might sweeten the deal

If we end up with pick 12 & 13 could we use one of those picks and a future 1st pick to entice north or west coast or gold coast to part with their top 5 picks guaranting us a top midfielder .

 

[Diehard Saint]

Understand this, but I reckon Shiel is cooked. The thought of getting an aging Bomber on our list has triggered me.

Don't want him anywhere near Moorabbin.

There's a perfectly good midfield position for him on the Gold Coast at the Suns.

Because a five year contract to an even more cooked Hanners was ok because we don’t mind the Swans