List Mgmt. 2024 List Management thread - Trade Targets Part 2

[Alfonz]

Certainly one of the earlier selections for a small or medium.

Serong, Brayshaw, Young…. then who?

You can't lump mediums in with smalls. You need size across the field, so players that Baker is individually superior to would be selected ahead/separately.

You have to limit it to smalls. Serong, Brayshaw, Switta, Bolton all get chosen ahead of him.

Then you're down to Wagner and Freddy.
Wagner is an obvious one, but our backline is good enough and finishing/scoring is the area in most need of improving.

Freddy has more speed and height. Maybe you sacrifice that. View it as Bolton for Freddy, and Baker for Walters.

But then you have to weigh up how much Baker impacts our ability to add Pickett/Warner. Baker won't come cheap and our salary cap needs all the help it can get to fit the big guns in.

 

[arsesmart]

Get Walters to 250 games as a tactical sub, he’s earned it. Fyfe still has something left in the tank. Never been a fan of JOM. Hopefully he gets dropped from the leadership group and team.

Please God, no. Walters is best when he has time to work his way into the game (or we're well on top and there's plenty of ball coming forward).

At this stage he's effective with greater opportunities to work into a game and ratio into those magical moments and sync into the forward team. Often the sub is at it's most effective (especially if the games in the balance or we're behind) when they bring in high energy and power instantly. Which isn't really his go.

 

[eastfreo75]

Yes, I meant as a ‘Mr fix it’ type role that Baker would enable us to cover, if needed.

Baker would still have best 22 position in our side. Just depends where Freo see him as best fit.

We’re not luring a fringe player AND even if that’s people’s opinion we have shown that we do lack depth and we will have Fyfe, Walters, JOM and Aish probably phased out over next 2 years.

Baker is a no brainer to me anyway.

Best trade value is upgrade your weakest area.

Baker is great for structure for sure. Covers all three zones.

Is baker good for money?

Midfield we have a long list of players not being a game. Erasmus, Brodie and Aish.

Forward line we have Bolton coming in pushing Banfield out of the best 22. Simpson could take the next step plus we have access to top 30 draft talent. That 30 talent is the strongest in years.

Backline we have Aish, and Draper. Sure. If Baker comes pushing out Wagner.

Therefore, only improves our backline.

 

[arsesmart]

I'll play along to this nuffie game, seeing as you and a couple of heroes don't seem to understand commonsense.

First bold point - yes we do, hence why we've been chasing him all season. Clean, one touch players that can play multiple positions to a high standard, while also being a proven leader in premiership teams.

Second bold point - you've completely made that up with zero evidence to back that up. You've foolishly assumed it's all about money. It's not, he simply wants to come home. The trade assets Richmond want doesn't have much relevance, given he is out of contract.

Third bold point - explain this logic to me? Player wants to come home, player has both clubs very interested and will receive a good contract wherever he goes. They didn't "stuff this up" at all. Just more make believe bs. You keep beating this stupid narrative that he's coming home purely for money. Will you say the same bs for Chad and Kozzie?

Fourth bold point - Yet again, you assume it's about money. Yet again you're wrong. Players are allowed to want to return home without it being for financial gain.

Here are Bakers last 4 B&F finishes:

2020, flag year - 6th
2021 - 2nd
2022, finals year - 4th
2023 - 6th

It's very easy to see why we want Baker, despite your best efforts of talking him down.

Baker's form has dropped a fair way off this year. That has to be a factor to be considered, whatever you might put it down to. Especially if he's hesitant between such a stark choice as us vs the WC.

Kicking the tyres isn't a bad thing. You want to come to a good understanding of how much you're prepared to pay. I see no value in trying to shut that down.

 

[arsesmart]

I have a feeling we are going to see Banfield on the wing unfortunately...

 

[Quay Club]

Brayshaw and Serong even had dinner with Josh Corbett when he was deciding where to go. You pull every string you can to land a player you want.. There is no pecking order. Love that these guys help sell the vision/culture

With all this wining and dining they are doing Brayshaw and Serong are going to have to double the 100 x 100's this Christmas.

 

[cheesetwist13]

Feel like baker wants freo but is better off with West coast.. honestly don't think i can name once when his changed a game and won richmond a game off his own boot. Isn't worth a first rounder. We only just got a future first out of Collingwood for Schultz and schultz is ten times better then baker.
Need to land players with more experience, so many times this year we lacked experience when walters or fyfe is out and once one of them is on the bench we then rely on omeara. Who I couldn't see opening a packet of chips the right way leather lone guiding freo to a victory.
Would rather brayshaw resigned before throwing money at baker.
Get Darcy's body right and focus on who's taking walters and fyfes spots after next year unless they plan on having a blinder n some how getting another year added.

 

[arsesmart]

With all this wining and dining they are doing Brayshaw and Serong are going to have to double the 100 x 100's this Christmas.

I'm sure it'll all be macro this and keto that...

 

[Alfonz]

Here are Bakers last 4 B&F finishes:

2020, flag year - 6th
2021 - 2nd
2022, finals year - 4th
2023 - 6th

It's very easy to see why we want Baker, despite your best efforts of talking him down.

Those B&F finishes can be misleading. I've gone through the years when Richmond had a good side, and they had a lot of players miss large chunks of games. He was finishing ahead of guys like Cotchin, Riewoldt, Martin, Prestia, Lynch, etc. Durability is indeed an admirable quality. But really he was around the 12th-14th mark for best players.

And he would be the same here. I've listed many players above that he is better than individually. People are not disputing that. But for team balance there are only a couple of people he can replace. And the question is whether that is worth the cost in salary and draft capital. Bringing in a 600k player is awkward when we are stacking the top end and have limited funds (compared with other sides) for the rest.

 

[eastfreo75]

I'll play along to this nuffie game, seeing as you and a couple of heroes don't seem to understand commonsense.

First bold point - yes we do, hence why we've been chasing him all season. Clean, one touch players that can play multiple positions to a high standard, while also being a proven leader in premiership teams.

Second bold point - you've completely made that up with zero evidence to back that up. You've foolishly assumed it's all about money. It's not, he simply wants to come home. The trade assets Richmond want doesn't have much relevance, given he is out of contract.

Third bold point - explain this logic to me? Player wants to come home, player has both clubs very interested and will receive a good contract wherever he goes. They didn't "stuff this up" at all. Just more make believe bs. You keep beating this stupid narrative that he's coming home purely for money. Will you say the same bs for Chad and Kozzie?

Fourth bold point - Yet again, you assume it's about money. Yet again you're wrong. Players are allowed to want to return home without it being for financial gain.

Here are Bakers last 4 B&F finishes:

2020, flag year - 6th
2021 - 2nd
2022, finals year - 4th
2023 - 6th

It's very easy to see why we want Baker, despite your best efforts of talking him down.

Look I made the same argument about

I'll play along to this nuffie game, seeing as you and a couple of heroes don't seem to understand commonsense.

First bold point - yes we do, hence why we've been chasing him all season. Clean, one touch players that can play multiple positions to a high standard, while also being a proven leader in premiership teams.

Second bold point - you've completely made that up with zero evidence to back that up. You've foolishly assumed it's all about money. It's not, he simply wants to come home. The trade assets Richmond want doesn't have much relevance, given he is out of contract.

Third bold point - explain this logic to me? Player wants to come home, player has both clubs very interested and will receive a good contract wherever he goes. They didn't "stuff this up" at all. Just more make believe bs. You keep beating this stupid narrative that he's coming home purely for money. Will you say the same bs for Chad and Kozzie?

Fourth bold point - Yet again, you assume it's about money. Yet again you're wrong. Players are allowed to want to return home without it being for financial gain.

Here are Bakers last 4 B&F finishes:

2020, flag year - 6th
2021 - 2nd
2022, finals year - 4th
2023 - 6th

It's very easy to see why we want Baker, despite your best efforts of talking him down.

What is Fremantle lacking?

Is Player retention and recruitment not important?

Is recruiting players with the same skill set a good idea?

Doesn’t cost in terms of salary cap and draft capital come into?

I never questioned Bakers ability.

Another sport, Melbourne Tigers in the NBL had 6 quality bigs ie 210-2014cm. What happen? They missed the playoffs.

I made the same argument about Neale coming back. Neale is a great player but we had Fyfe, Brayshaw, and Serong. That move might have stopped Young going into the middle.

The number issue is we don’t kick enough goals. Bakers score assist, goals and score involvements are not elite.

You can argue with me, no issue there. Calling me names isn’t a good argument.

 

[King Huskii]

Yeah bugger wining and dining Baker. Lets give Kozzie the Crown towers penthouse and some naughty ladies for the weekend and see if they can work their magic on him!

Sounds like heaven

 

[Taylor]

These rankings are league wide.

2024:
Baker and Bolton considered forwards
14th and 16th ranked score involvement non tall forward players in the league this year.

2023:
Bolton, considered forward is 4th.
Baker, defender, was ranked 2nd for defenders score involvements. Would have been +20% on our best defender this year.

2022:
Bolton, forward is 1st
Baker, defender, 2nd. Would have ranked second for our FORWARDS this year.

These two make good decisions with the ball and create scores.

 

[eastfreo75]

These rankings are league wide.

2024:
Baker and Bolton considered forwards
14th and 16th ranked score involvement non tall forward players in the league this year.

2023:
Bolton, considered forward is 4th.
Baker, defender, was ranked 2nd for defenders score involvements. Would have been +20% on our best defender this year.

2022:
Bolton, forward is 1st
Baker, defender, 2nd. Would have ranked second for our FORWARDS this year.

These two make good decisions with the ball and create scores.

Where did you the rankings?

I’ve looked at footywire and don’t see what you are seeing.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Baker would be fantastic in the backline IMO and give it a bit more competitiveness which it's needs. The only reason we shouldn't get Baker is if his salary then rules out better players.

 

[Alfonz]

Where did you the rankings?

I’ve looked at footywire and don’t see what you are seeing.

Wheelo

 

[eastfreo75]

Baker would be fantastic in the backline IMO and give it a bit more competitiveness which it's needs. The only reason we shouldn't get Baker is because his salary then rules out better players.

Moneyball principles.

You buy wins not players.

 

[mike91]

Those B&F finishes can be misleading. I've gone through the years when Richmond had a good side, and they had a lot of players miss large chunks of games. He was finishing ahead of guys like Cotchin, Riewoldt, Martin, Prestia, Lynch, etc. Durability is indeed an admirable quality. But really he was around the 12th-14th mark for best players.

And he would be the same here. I've listed many players above that he is better than individually. People are not disputing that. But for team balance there are only a couple of people he can replace. And the question is whether that is worth the cost in salary and draft capital. Bringing in a 600k player is awkward when we are stacking the top end and have limited funds (compared with other sides) for the rest.

Think you're hugely overrating our list

 

[eastfreo75]

Wheelo

Lol

 

[Taylor]

Where did you the rankings?

I’ve looked at footywire and don’t see what you are seeing.

You can dig them out by cross referencing the stats on the AFL website with Wheelo ratings

 

[mike91]

Look I made the same argument about

What is Fremantle lacking?

Is Player retention and recruitment not important?

Is recruiting players with the same skill set a good idea?

Doesn’t cost in terms of salary cap and draft capital come into?

I never questioned Bakers ability.

Another sport, Melbourne Tigers in the NBL had 6 quality bigs ie 210-2014cm. What happen? They missed the playoffs.

I made the same argument about Neale coming back. Neale is a great player but we had Fyfe, Brayshaw, and Serong. That move might have stopped Young going into the middle.

The number issue is we don’t kick enough goals. Bakers score assist, goals and score involvements are not elite.

You can argue with me, no issue there. Calling me names isn’t a good argument.

These rankings are league wide.

2024:
Baker and Bolton considered forwards
14th and 16th ranked score involvement non tall forward players in the league this year.

2023:
Bolton, considered forward is 4th.
Baker, defender, was ranked 2nd for defenders score involvements. Would have been +20% on our best defender this year.

2022:
Bolton, forward is 1st
Baker, defender, 2nd. Would have ranked second for our FORWARDS this year.

These two make good decisions with the ball and create scores.

You sure about that?

 

[WilloTree]

So assuming NOd and Sharp play on the wings, Chapman stays back forcing Drapes to play at Peel and Fyfe and Raz wax a midfielder position off and on, who do you drop for Baker?

Dont say Walters as Ive already got Bolton in his position.
Dont say O’Meara, Aish, Emmett or Banners as I already dont have them best 22.

Who are we dropping in the forward line out of J,J,J, Sturt, Freddy, Shai or Switta??
Or are we suggesting he plays back for Wagner or Walker??
I dont get why we would reach for him.
Who exactly are you going to drop?

Good post. IMHO Baker has played his best footy as a small defender, so I assume it's Walker or Wagner who make way.

He's had some good games as a mid, but also some poor ones (and some diabolically poor ones). A bit hit-and-miss.

I'd be pretty annoyed if we ditch a 1st rounder in this draft, just so we can drop someone like Johnson, Sharp or NOD back to the 2s.

He's not a forward in the sense that you set-and-forget, so that's a bit problematic given our current predicament.

edit - I'm not joking when I say this could be the best draft cohort I've seen. Be very careful trading out picks this year - very high chance it will come back to bite....hard.

 

[WilloTree]

You can dig them out by cross referencing the stats on the AFL website with Wheelo ratings

Love the Wheelo. Game changer.

 

[Cobbler]

You can't lump mediums in with smalls. You need size across the field, so players that Baker is individually superior to would be selected ahead/separately.

You have to limit it to smalls. Serong, Brayshaw, Switta, Bolton all get chosen ahead of him.

Then you're down to Wagner and Freddy.
Wagner is an obvious one, but our backline is good enough and finishing/scoring is the area in most need of improving.

Freddy has more speed and height. Maybe you sacrifice that. View it as Bolton for Freddy, and Baker for Walters.

But then you have to weigh up how much Baker impacts our ability to add Pickett/Warner. Baker won't come cheap and our salary cap needs all the help it can get to fit the big guns in.

Well I am lumping him in with the mediums as it’s a collective group. I’m not saying Baker replaces Sturt as a medium tall.

Baker would instantly become our greatest magnet swapping player. He instantly provides mongrel and a bit of getting under the skin of the opposition (we clearly lack this). He’s clean, great decision maker, will switch angles.

Anyway, I’ll leave the Baker discussions. I don’t think he’s coming to us and if people don’t view his worth that’s their opinion.

 

[mike91]

Well I am lumping him in with the mediums as it’s a collective group. I’m not saying Baker replaces Sturt as a medium tall.

Baker would instantly become our greatest magnet swapping player. He instantly provides mongrel and a bit of getting under the skin of the opposition (we clearly lack this). He’s clean, great decision maker, will switch angles.

Anyway, I’ll leave the Baker discussions. I don’t think he’s coming to us and if people don’t view his worth that’s their opinion.

I'm keen on Baker, but I'd be quite surprised if he isn't wearing Blue and Gold next season unfortunately

 

[Taylor]

My belief is that Bolton will make things happen himself, can win games by himself, meanwhile Baker is the sort to turn the good work of his team mates into scoring opportunities - so players like Cox marking the ball and kicking it nearly sideways to Baker will make those marks more valuable and we will see guys like Pearce, Ryan, Cox intercept marking becoming a score launch as opposed to the game of tennis is can be now.

We definitely want Bolton, we should enjoy having Baker.