List Mgmt. 2024 List Management thread - Trade Targets Part 2

[eastfreo75]

Think you're hugely overrating our list

Maybe.

4th youngest list and best 22 is young.

Best players with more growth and mostly 26 and under.

Out of the 10 losses we lead at the end of the 3rd Quarter 5 times. Darcy only played in 3 losses.

Out of 5 losses where we lead at three quarter into 2 wins we would be too 5. If one of those wins were against either Port and Cats we are top 4.

We fixed our composure and mindset in the last quarter we are challenging for a flag

 

[dont bowl there]

Maybe.

4th youngest list and best 22 is young.

Best players with more growth and mostly 26 and under.

Out of the 10 losses we lead at the end of the 3rd Quarter 5 times. Darcy only played in 3 losses.

Out of 5 losses where we lead at three quarter into 2 wins we would be too 5. If one of those wins were against either Port and Cats we are top 4.

We fixed our composure and mindset in the last quarter we are challenging for a flag

Maybe getting in someone that has a heap of finals experience and is known for his clean one touch play would help?

 

[Alfonz]

Think you're hugely overrating our list

No, I am not. You are not properly comprehending what I said. I literally said he was in the 12th-14th bracket on our list. Meaning there's around 10 players in our best team and 30+ players on our list who I have said he is better than. But it's not that simple, because due to his tiny size there is a limited selection from the best team who he can actually replace to maintain team balance.

 

[malpaso]

I think Baker would be great for us, he makes other players better because he does the hard stuff and makes good decisions. He also has mongrel, something we are sorely lacking.

 

[Polo342]

“Nothing but a complete disaster”: Cornes takes aim at Freo list calls after B&F results

“It is unbelievable.”

www.sen.com.au

Just Corned having another Rant Sighhhh

 

[Vintage]

Why does it require two of our guns to meet and have coffee with him in order to "convince" him Freo is where it's at, he's Liam bloody Baker not Kozzy Pickett or Chad Warner for heavens sake.

Both sides are trying to figure out if it’s a good fit. It makes perfect sense for us to do this, and it should be seen as a positive that any respective players wants to understand what they’re potentially moving into.

You’re allowing personal bias against someone to interfere with logic.

 

[Bigger]

Some fans acting like Baker is a Colin Sylvia type pick up. Criminal under rating of a genuine excellent player.

Bolton and Baker arguably 2 of Richmond’s top 5 most valued players.

Bolton fits a massive need.

Baker a massive Aish type player upgrade. Hard at it and will suit our style. Provides large flexibility. This can only be good.

Anyway, we all have opinions, but some of you are carrying on like we’re wining and dining a fringe player.

He’s not a fringe player. He’s a meat and three veg genuine footballer and a particularly campaignery one. That’s good. You need those types who would skin their nan for a win.

But you don’t pay haute cuisine prices for meat and three veg.

I’d like to have him, but I don’t want to overpay or **** our cap for a textbook West Coast supporter.

 

[Cobbler]

“Nothing but a complete disaster”: Cornes takes aim at Freo list calls after B&F results

“It is unbelievable.”

www.sen.com.au

Just Corned having another Rant Sighhhh

He went quiet when they did play together and we went well.
Then he just unloads constantly at a time when there’s nothing we can currently do. He really is a knob. Personally, I hate ‘negative’ media posts, but I accept that’s just life.

To continue to make a point when players are injured or it’s an off season just smacks of someone with a massive ego who has to prove he’s right.

Time will tell. He may be right, but he’s a deadset flog and one day he’s going to cause someone to have health issues and I hope he gets taken to the cleaners.

He’s actually just a nasty person.

 

[eastfreo75]

You sure about that?

Goals ranked 146th averaging 0.8
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_rankings?year=2024&rt=LA&pt=&st=GO&mg=1

Score involvements 62th averaging 5.6

2024 AFL League Score Involvements Per Game Leaders

2024 AFL League Score Involvements Per Game Leaders.

www.footywire.com

Goal Assists 158th averaging 0.5

2024 AFL League Goal Assists Per Game Leaders

2024 AFL League Goal Assists Per Game Leaders.

www.footywire.com

 

[arsesmart]

I think Baker would be great for us, he makes other players better because he does the hard stuff and makes good decisions. He also has mongrel, something we are sorely lacking.

I think being "the mongrel" also had him making very bad decisions. Saw that several times in the space of a few minutes when we were well and truly in the process of taking the game away from them this year.

 

[s_wd6]

“Nothing but a complete disaster”: Cornes takes aim at Freo list calls after B&F results

“It is unbelievable.”

www.sen.com.au

Just Corned having another Rant Sighhhh

Isn't Kane telling us that we don't need Darcy because Jackson is good enough? But Brandon Walker (spud apparently?) almost beat him so doesn't that mean Kaneo that you were wrong?

I'm surprised he didn't find a way to throw in Cox not finishing top 10 with his six year deal too.

 

[arsesmart]

He went quiet when they did play together and we went well.
Then he just unloads constantly at a time when there’s nothing we can currently do. He really is a knob. Personally, I hate ‘negative’ media posts, but I accept that’s just life.

To continue to make a point when players are injured or it’s an off season just smacks of someone with a massive ego who has to prove he’s right.

Time will tell. He may be right, but he’s a deadset flog and one day he’s going to cause someone to have health issues and I hope he gets taken to the cleaners.

He’s actually just a nasty person.

He basically gets rewarded for taking highly black and white opinions (not the only one, but probably one of the most extreme in mainstream medialand). This means he leans heavily into simplistic ideas and consequentially basically crap and rigid analysis...more and more fitness as a cure for injuries is one of his overly simplified hobby horses.

It also means he has to cherry pick to prove he's right all the time.

 

[eastfreo75]

Maybe getting in someone that has a heap of finals experience and is known for his clean one touch play would help?

Great point.

Strong possibility Baker helps that but directing play and showing leadership on the ground.

 

[Vintage]

So assuming NOd and Sharp play on the wings, Chapman stays back forcing Drapes to play at Peel and Fyfe and Raz wax a midfielder position off and on, who do you drop for Baker?

Dont say Walters as Ive already got Bolton in his position.
Dont say O’Meara, Aish, Emmett or Banners as I already dont have them best 22.

Who are we dropping in the forward line out of J,J,J, Sturt, Freddy, Shai or Switta??
Or are we suggesting he plays back for Wagner or Walker??
I dont get why we would reach for him.
Who exactly are you going to drop?

There are always injuries from the best 23. A couple of weeks ago someone put up total games played by some of those fringe players that baker and Bolton would upgrade - it was well over 100 games.

If you don’t believe that, just look round by round at who actually played.

Round 1 - Aish, Hughes, Fyfe, Emmett, Banfield, Walters, Ras, worner
2 - Emmett, Walters, tabs, Fyfe, Hughes, Aish, banfield
3 - pretty much same
4 - no change
5 - Ras in, Fred out

And so it goes. The point is that it is extremely rare to have all of the best 23 available.

And baker is better than most on here think.

 

[DocT]

“Nothing but a complete disaster”: Cornes takes aim at Freo list calls after B&F results

“It is unbelievable.”

www.sen.com.au

Just Corned having another Rant Sighhhh

Cornes makes a valid point.
jackson is supposed to be a generational/unicorn/could be anything player.
Darcy had a known injury record when we did the Big Deal.
Positionally they substantially overlap.
To have only 1 in the Top 10 for 2024, and that 9th, is a very poor return on our massive investment.
Not saying the die is cast.
But if Darcy/Jackson deliver 80% on what we signed them up for in 2025 then we will play a GF with no other list changes whatsoever.
Over to you, lads...

 

[eastfreo75]

There are always injuries from the best 23. A couple of weeks ago someone put up total games played by some of those fringe players that baker and Bolton would upgrade - it was well over 100 games.

If you don’t believe that, just look round by round at who actually played.

Round 1 - Aish, Hughes, Fyfe, Emmett, Banfield, Walters, Ras, worner
2 - Emmett, Walters, tabs, Fyfe, Hughes, Aish, banfield
3 - pretty much same
4 - no change
5 - Ras in, Fred out

And so it goes. The point is that it is extremely rare to have all of the best 23 available.

And baker is better than most on here think.

Good point.

Baker replacing one of the depth player and strong possibility we would have been 5-0 or at least 4-1.

 

[Cobbler]

He basically gets rewarded for taking highly black and white opinions (not the only one, but probably one of the most extreme in mainstream medialand). This means he leans heavily into simplistic ideas and consequentially basically crap and rigid analysis...more and more fitness as a cure for injuries is one of his overly simplified hobby horses.

It also means he has to cherry pick to prove he's right all the time.

It’s the relentlessness of his approach that does my head in. Especially when nothing can be done to prove otherwise.

It’s bully behaviour.

 

[arsesmart]

And baker is better than most on here think.

I think this is too fuzzy, broad and generic a claim to really provide any real genuine value.

The real debate lies in how much we should be willing to pay for Baker and maybe what that might cost us with other potentially trades and list management.

On the flipside we don't want to ignore what Baker can bring either.

But he is a player who enter the AFL as an honest scrapper. Elevated himself to elite or near elite performances as the Tigers did. But then experienced a significant drop off in form this year and now is prevaricating over a team on the cusp vs one with a hefty rebuild in front of it.

 

[mike91]

Goals ranked 146th averaging 0.8
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_rankings?year=2024&rt=LA&pt=&st=GO&mg=1

Score involvements 62th averaging 5.6

2024 AFL League Score Involvements Per Game Leaders

2024 AFL League Score Involvements Per Game Leaders.

www.footywire.com

Goal Assists 158th averaging 0.5

2024 AFL League Goal Assists Per Game Leaders

2024 AFL League Goal Assists Per Game Leaders.

www.footywire.com

You're using one whole season as evidence, not his career? I'm going out on a limb here, you don't watch much non freo games do you?

 

[eastfreo75]

Cornes makes a valid point.
jackson is supposed to be a generational/unicorn/could be anything player.
Darcy had a known injury record when we did the Big Deal.
Positionally they substantially overlap.
To have only 1 in the Top 10 for 2024, and that 9th, is a very poor return on our massive investment.
Not saying the die is cast.
But if Darcy/Jackson deliver 80% on what we signed them up for in 2025 then we will play a GF with no other list changes whatsoever.
Over to you, lads...

He forgot one stat.

70% of our losses Darcy didn't play.

 

[eastfreo75]

You're using one whole season as evidence, not his career? I'm going out on a limb here, you don't watch much non freo games do you?

not this year.

Let's look at 2022 and 2023.

2023
0.5 Goals
0.6 Goal assists
5.3 score involvement

2022
0.5 goals
0.3 goals
5.1 score involvement

To be fair he was played over the shop.

Still, it's not elite numbers.

 

[Vintage]

These rankings are league wide.

2024:
Baker and Bolton considered forwards
14th and 16th ranked score involvement non tall forward players in the league this year.

2023:
Bolton, considered forward is 4th.
Baker, defender, was ranked 2nd for defenders score involvements. Would have been +20% on our best defender this year.

2022:
Bolton, forward is 1st
Baker, defender, 2nd. Would have ranked second for our FORWARDS this year.

These two make good decisions with the ball and create scores.

Yes but, but, but… their 2024 score involvements only look that good because they played in a winning, high scoring team.

 

[arsesmart]

You're using one whole season as evidence, not his career? I'm going out on a limb here, you don't watch much non freo games do you?

It all depends what you might interpret the drop off this year being down to.

Some players elevate out of the mid-tier (or whatever tier) due to things, like effort or finding a niche, that may all of a dissipate due to things they can't control.

This may or may not be the case for Baker, but it needs to be considered.

 

[mayne iac]

Some fans acting like Baker is a Colin Sylvia type pick up. Criminal under rating of a genuine excellent player.

Bolton and Baker arguably 2 of Richmond’s top 5 most valued players.

Bolton fits a massive need.

Baker a massive Aish type player upgrade. Hard at it and will suit our style. Provides large flexibility. This can only be good.

Anyway, we all have opinions, but some of you are carrying on like we’re wining and dining a fringe player.

Its like some people have never seen him play - for me he's in out top 10 players, straight away.
He's like a Shultz type with a huge tank.

 

[s_wd6]

Four pages of this and he hasn't even decided he wants to come here yet. Can't imagine how bad its gonna be if he does choose us.