Preview 2024 Pre season trial game 2 - Vs West Coast - Hisense Sat Mar 2 @2:40

[FR0GGY]

There are many facets which go to make an AFL footballer - skills, desire, competitiveness, fitness, athleticism. It's quite feasible that a player can have all the skills, but lack the fitness & athleticism to make it at the top level. Fitness & athleticism are not pre-requisites for being a good coach.

What matters most when coaching, particularly skills coaching, is an understanding of the skills and the ability to communicate. Neither of these require having played at the highest level.

History has shown that few real champions go on to make good coaches. Leigh Matthews is an obvious exception - but most other champions have failed badly as coaches (think Voss & Hird). Players who often seem to make the best coaches are the gritty back pocket types, who had to work hard for everything they got. Examples of this type include Chris Scott, Damien Hardwick, and Alastair Clarkson.

I don't know whether Baulderstone will make a good coach, or not, but I am certainly willing to see how he performs before passing judgement.

I wasn’t suggesting someone needed to be a champion.

 

[Vader]

I wasn’t suggesting someone needed to be a champion.

That's fair. The fact is that they also don't need to have played at the highest level - a high level, certainly, but not the highest. Baulderstone had a very successful career in the SANFL, which is high enough that nobody should be doubting his coaching qualifications.

 

[FR0GGY]

That's fair. The fact is that they also don't need to have played at the highest level - a high level, certainly, but not the highest. Baulderstone had a very successful career in the SANFL, which is high enough that nobody should be doubting his coaching qualifications.

I guess I feel it’s a bit like a young captain telling senior ex captain what he should be doing game wise.
I dunno it just feels odd to me.

 

[Vader]

I guess I feel it’s a bit like a young captain telling senior ex captain what he should be doing game wise.
I dunno it just feels odd to me.

It's no different to having former Sheffield Shield cricketers coaching the Test Team, as has frequently happened in the past.

For example... Michael Di Venuto played 9x ODIs for Australia, and never played a Test, but he's been Australia's batting coach on & off since 2013. John Buchanan only played 7x Shield matches for Queensland, but he went on to become one of Australia's most successful coaches.

 

[FR0GGY]

It's no different to having former Sheffield Shield cricketers coaching the Test Team, as has frequently happened in the past.

For example... Michael Di Venuto played 9x ODIs for Australia, and never played a Test, but he's been Australia's batting coach on & off since 2013. John Buchanan only played 7x Shield matches for Queensland, but he went on to become one of Australia's most successful coaches.

The head coach is more of a manager though than a skills or technique coach though.

 

[Vader]

The head coach is more of a manager though than a skills or technique coach though.

Australia's current coaches are:
Andrew McDonald - head coach
Michael Di Venuto - batting
Andre Borovec - fielding & wicketkeeping
Dan Vettori - bowling

Dan Vettori had a long & decorated career, playing Test Cricket for NZ. He's the only member of the coaching group with extensive experience at the national level, as a player.

McDonald played 4 tests in 2009, in Australia & South Africa, largely as a result of injuries to Symonds & Watson.
Di Venuto played 9x ODIs for Australia, but never played a Test Match.
Borovec never even played a First Class cricket match, topping out in Victoria's 2nd XI.

All of this goes to show that while experience at the top level can be helpful, it is by no means a pre-requisite for coaching successfully at the top level.

 

[FR0GGY]

Australia's current coaches are:
Andrew McDonald - head coach
Michael Di Venuto - batting
Andre Borovec - fielding & wicketkeeping
Dan Vettori - bowling

Dan Vettori had a long & decorated career, playing Test Cricket for NZ. He's the only member of the coaching group with extensive experience at the national level, as a player.

McDonald played 4 tests in 2009, in Australia & South Africa, largely as a result of injuries to Symonds & Watson.
Di Venuto played 9x ODIs for Australia, but never played a Test Match.
Borovec never even played a First Class cricket match, topping out in Victoria's 2nd XI.

All of this goes to show that while experience at the top level can be helpful, it is by no means a pre-requisite for coaching successfully at the top level.

What about the wicketkeeper, have they got their own coach, as essentially that’s what we are talking about, a position that’s different to everyone else on the team.

 

[Vader]

What about the wicketkeeper, have they got their own coach, as essentially that’s what we are talking about, a position that’s different to everyone else on the team.

Borovec's role covers wicket keeping.

Source: cricket.com.au

 

[Elder van Berlo]

Legendary AC Milan manager Arrigo Sacchi, a shoe salesman who never played professional football, upon being questioned as to his qualifications:

I never realised that in order to become a jockey you have to have been a horse first.

 

[FR0GGY]

Borovec's role covers wicket keeping.

Source: cricket.com.au

Completely missed that.

 

[Cap]

All of this goes to show that while experience at the top level can be helpful, it is by no means a pre-requisite for coaching successfully at the top level.

Which is why I never understood AFL clubs limiting themselves to virtually ex AFL Players

 

[StickerMan]

Baulderstone, from memory, was a pretty smart ruckman, who used his smarts to dominate at SANFL level, despite having limitations on his physical attributes., which probably limited him in going to the next level.

 

[Alwaysacrow]

There are many facets which go to make an AFL footballer - skills, desire, competitiveness, fitness, athleticism. It's quite feasible that a player can have all the skills, but lack the fitness & athleticism to make it at the top level. Fitness & athleticism are not pre-requisites for being a good coach.

What matters most when coaching, particularly skills coaching, is an understanding of the skills and the ability to communicate. Neither of these require having played at the highest level.

History has shown that few real champions go on to make good coaches. Leigh Matthews is an obvious exception - but most other champions have failed badly as coaches (think Voss & Hird). Players who often seem to make the best coaches are the gritty back pocket types, who had to work hard for everything they got. Examples of this type include Chris Scott, Damien Hardwick, and Alastair Clarkson.

I don't know whether Baulderstone will make a good coach, or not, but I am certainly willing to see how he performs before passing judgement.

Let's not forget Blight. '97&'98.....

 

[FR0GGY]

I think people have got what I said out of context, I mainly wonder about the dynamic of someone with less experience (or no experience) telling someone more experienced what they should do.
Not that it doesn’t work or shouldn’t be done.

 

[Peter Doherty]

I think people have got what I said out of context, I mainly wonder about the dynamic of someone with less experience (or no experience) telling someone more experienced what they should do.
Not that it doesn’t work or shouldn’t be done.

You've let that V badge get to your head.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I think people have got what I said out of context, I mainly wonder about the dynamic of someone with less experience (or no experience) telling someone more experienced what they should do.
Not that it doesn’t work or shouldn’t be done.

Executing the skills and teaching the skills are two different things

David Leadbetter (average golfer) coached Nick Faldo, Ernie Els. Butch Harmon (even worse golfer) coached Tiger Woods.

There's a misconception that it would be great to get Darren Jarman in to do some skills coaching. Teach our boys how to kick.

Wrong mindset and D Jars was awful as a skills coach in the brief period he was here. Get in the guy who taught Darren Jarman how to kick

 

[FR0GGY]

Executing the skills and teaching the skills are two different things

David Leadbetter (average golfer) coached Nick Faldo, Ernie Els. Butch Harmon (even worse golfer) coached Tiger Woods.

There's a misconception that it would be great to get Darren Jarman in to do some skills coaching. Teach our boys how to kick.

Wrong mindset and D Jars was awful as a skills coach in the brief period he was here. Get in the guy who taught Darren Jarman how to kick

Again not my point.
Would someone be more likely to listen to Darren Jarman or John butcher?
It’s the dynamic I’m more curious of not the results.
I guess it’s down to the player as to how they accept someone teaching them.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Again not my point.
Would someone be more likely to listen to Darren Jarman or John butcher?
It’s the dynamic I’m more curious of not the results.
I guess it’s down to the player as to how they accept someone teaching them.

Coaches have to earn their stripes

If John Butcher had coached the last three Coleman medallists then people would listen to him and not give a toss about his own kicking

If D Jars never coached at any level with success...?

The name opens doors no doubt. Especially at poorly run organisations

Andrew McDonald is coaching the Aussie team on the back of a solid first class career and a handful of Australian games.

Bill Belichick never played NFL

 

[Southerntakeover]

Coaches have to earn their stripes

If John Butcher had coached the last three Coleman medallists then people would listen to him and not give a toss about his own kicking

If D Jars never coached at any level with success...?

The name opens doors no doubt. Especially at poorly run organisations

Andrew McDonald is coaching the Aussie team on the back of a solid first class career and a handful of Australian games.

Bill Belichick never played NFL

Extremely talented players more often seem to find it frustrating that other players don't understand why they can't do something that they just know how to do.

I think Carey or someone said that once about his coaching career.

It makes a lot of sense that it's less talented players who have to consciously battle and think about what they're doing to get there that make better coaches.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Of course, the counter argument is pretty straight forward. Malcolm Blight and Leigh Matthews.

Both had a particular temperament though.

 

[Concussion test]

Of course, the counter argument is pretty straight forward. Malcolm Blight and Leigh Matthews.

Both had a particular temperament though.

Many more options available now so most really successful players choose a lucrative and comparatively stress free life in the media.

 

[Betts are off]

Was rewatching the game last night, and 1 piece of play that stood out was when Rankine took the ball at absolutely blistering pace on the close wing and outside of the boot kicked the ball perfectly on the chest of a leading Rachele...

It was as good a I50 as you will ever see. And the type of play that shows why Rankine can be so much more than just a small forward!

He was moving so fast the rest of the players looked like they were set to Slow Motion by comparison!

 

[Alwaysacrow]

That won’t stop our selectors pumping games into him

Yeah pump up his price. Not that we'd get much anyway.

 

[Crowman32]

Pedlar struggles to find the ball