List Mgmt. 2025 Draft & Trade Hypotheticals

[The King!]

We also had to give Green time and he is fronting up well in the VFL but is clearly not going to be ready for another 12 months as he needs another PS. Grundy got smoked after QTR time today but still has shown in the previous 3 weeks what he can be and thats one of the top rucks in the comp. Think the heat got to him somehow much like the rest of the Swans

I thought he started so well and it's like we forgot to rotate him out for Ladhams. But either way we needed a ruck and his deal was discounted can't pretend the deal didn't make sense. Even if he retired tomorrow it was worth it imo

 

[The King!]

Grundy been great tbh Adams made complete sense at the end of 2023.

Cap is going up it shouldnt be a big issue unless everyone is on 1million lmao

Adam's played well enough last year thought we ****ed around a bit with him .

2023 midfield needed something , i guess Adams wasn't a it, time again would get kennedy instead from the blues if you could for instance

 

[Kbroome]

Adam's played well enough last year thought we ****ed around a bit with him .

2023 midfield needed something , i guess Adams wasn't a it, time again would get kennedy instead from the blues if you could for instance

For about the fourth time Kennedy and Macrae didn't want to leave Victoria, they were off the table

 

[The King!]

For about the fourth time Kennedy and Macrae didn't want to leave Victoria, they were off the table

Meant that type of player sorry - he wasn't leaving end of 23 anyway

 

[Adnico26Parker]

SAD SWANS TRUTH STARTING TO BITE BACK

Coming into this weekend the Swans had 10 players on their injury list, including notables like Errol Gullden, Tom Papley

11

Tom Papley

Age

29

Ht

177cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

9.1

4star

HB

5.0

4star

M

3.7

4star

T

3.2

5star

G

1.5

5star

D

12.3

3star

K

8.9

4star

HB

3.4

2star

M

4.5

4star

T

1.5

2star

G

2.4

5star

D

13.4

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

3.4

5star

G

1.6

5star

, Callum Mills

14

Callum Mills

Age

29

Ht

188cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.2

5star

K

10.8

4star

HB

7.4

5star

M

5.3

5star

T

2.6

4star

MG

287.0

4star

D

18.4

4star

K

11.5

4star

HB

6.9

4star

M

5.4

5star

T

3.4

4star

MG

293.4

4star

D

17.0

5star

K

9.4

4star

HB

7.6

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

2.8

5star

MG

284.4

5star

, Harry Cunningham, and key forward pair Logan McDonald and Joel Amartey.

Any team would be worse with that sort of jump in injuries. But it’s particularly bad for the Swans because of their drafting, which has been poor for more than half a decade with only a few exceptions.

Dogs’ glaring Bevo contract ‘fumble’ fear; ‘buyer beware’ in Dons’ trickiest call — AFL Talking Pts

Dogs’ glaring Bevo contract ‘fumble’ fear; ‘buyer beware’ in Dons’ trickiest call — Talking Pts

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[The King!]

SAD SWANS TRUTH STARTING TO BITE BACK

Coming into this weekend the Swans had 10 players on their injury list, including notables like Errol Gullden, Tom Papley, Callum Mills, Harry Cunningham, and key forward pair Logan McDonald and Joel Amartey.

Any team would be worse with that sort of jump in injuries. But it’s particularly bad for the Swans because of their drafting, which has been poor for more than half a decade with only a few exceptions.

Dogs’ glaring Bevo contract ‘fumble’ fear; ‘buyer beware’ in Dons’ trickiest call — AFL Talking Pts

Dogs’ glaring Bevo contract ‘fumble’ fear; ‘buyer beware’ in Dons’ trickiest call — Talking Pts

www.foxsports.com.au

Mcdonald just ok says the media who banged on about us desperately needing to re sign him last year - he's been better than ok imo. The rest is accurate

 

[JackHiscoxWasFast]

Just run an online poll and go with the highest votes for our next round 1 draft pick. Has to be better than the duds we pick year in year out.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

I hope we dont plan on finishing bottom 4 only for Tassie to sweep the draft..

 

[strauchanie59]

Looking back at the Swans' first round picks from 2016-2022, some of the players immediately after our pick are painful to see:

2016: Ridley
2017: Bailey, Richards, Higgins and Starcevich - all consecutively after Ling
2018: Matched bid for Blakey - Caldwell came after
2019: Well documented, but McAsey was taken directly after Stephens
2020: Happy with McDonald and Campbell - weak top 10, but we got two of the better ones
2021: van Rooyen, Lohmann and Freo's Johnson
2022: Jones and Gruzewski (showing fantastic form in the VFL)

 

[Olian]

Mcdonald just ok says the media who banged on about us desperately needing to re sign him last year - he's been better than ok imo. The rest is accurate

Looking at those around the McDonald pick, Phillips or DGB (axed by the Hawks). McDonald was the best of the lot.

Stephens at 5 was a bad miss but he had good wraps at the time. Hindsight says we should have gone elsewhere.

Article fails to mention that we have tried to recruit players, focussed on key backs like Barrass, McKay. Also linked to DeKoning, Larkey and Naughton.

Rest of picks haven’t worked out.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Looking back at the Swans' first round picks from 2016-2022, some of the players immediately after our pick are painful to see:

2016: Ridley
2017: Bailey, Richards, Higgins and Starcevich - all consecutively after Ling
2018: Matched bid for Blakey - Caldwell came after
2019: Well documented, but McAsey was taken directly after Stephens
2020: Happy with McDonald and Campbell - weak top 10, but we got two of the better ones
2021: van Rooyen, Lohmann and Freo's Johnson
2022: Jones and Gruzewski (showing fantastic form in the VFL)

2019 is the only disaster.

2020 was a shocking draft & we did about as well as we could.

2021 & 2022 were shallow drafts. We entered at the end of round 1 & there wasn’t much left.

I think it’s useful to compare to Hawthorn, who everyone is raving about. They haven’t exactly nailed it, despite having constant top 10 picks:

2020: Grainger Barass (6)
2021: Ward (7)
2022: MacKenzie (7)

The difference is 2019. Hawthorn got it right with Will Day (13).

2019 was a super draft & most sides got a top quality player with their first rounder. We didn’t & that really hurts. In fact, several clubs got 2 or 3 very good players out of that draft. We got none.

Having said all that - if Green & Dattoli bust …. we have a problem.

 

[Kbroome]

2019 is the only disaster.

2020 was a shocking draft & we did about as well as we could.

2021 & 2022 were shallow drafts. We entered at the end of round 1 & there wasn’t much left.

I think it’s useful to compare to Hawthorn, who everyone is raving about. They haven’t exactly nailed it, despite having constant top 10 picks:

2020: Grainger Barass (6)
2021: Ward (7)
2022: MacKenzie (7)

The difference is 2019. Hawthorn got it right with Will Day (13).

2019 was a super draft & most sides got a top quality player with their first rounder. We didn’t & that really hurts. In fact, several clubs got 2 or 3 very good players out of that draft. We got none.

Having said all that - if Green & Dattoli bust …. we have a problem.

I think the problems of our drafting have been a little magnified to start this season because:
1. Basically our whole 2024 class are injured bar Bice (who is a mature ager so people expect him to almost be a finished product from the start)
2. 2023 class (Cleary has been in the vest and also had the drug suspension but he is starting to kick into gear, Green is a ruck so naturally takes time, Patty Snell takes time and has had injuries but looks like he is banking back to back VFL top 3 games)
3. We have generally been a young side so even guys like JMac is turning 25 in August yet has almost 100 games, 11 guys under 26 years old that have 50+ games and of which 7 of them have 90+ already.
4. We stuffed up the 2022 class like there is no tomorrow and they would be in year 3 which is breakout year
5. Our 2021 year we got role players in Sheldrick, Roberts and Cor Warner

What I am saying here is that our 2024 class is injured, 2023 we went LT development, 2022 we stuffed and 2021 we got role players out of it and thats probably the reason it looks bad this year is just due to the timing of the drafts. If you swapped 2023 with 2021 we would be flying imo with an extra 2-3 players putting their hand up

 

[caesar88]

Lengthy post here, so I've used the 'ol spoiler tactic so folks can ignore it if they want.

Spoiler

I still think our nucleus of best players is as good as any - Heeney, Gulden, Rowbottom, Warner, Blakey, Papley, Mills. Yes they can be frustrating and questions remain over a few of their durability, but they're fantastic players who are among the very best in the competition at what they do.

I think we need to almost do a mini-rebuild to better surround this nucleus with players who will actually complement them. I'm not sure that many of the players in our team actually do so.

The flanker issue in our side has been well-documented and I think remains a significant one for us. Too many of them just aren't capable of playing hard, tough, selfless, disciplined roles that allow the aforementioned nucleus to do what they do best.

Jordon is the only one who has shown a certain adaptability in this regard, going from an outside runner at Melbourne to someone who can contribute on the inside for us and, importantly, perform disciplined roles even at the expense of his own game.

But Lloyd, Florent, McInerney, Hayward & Roberts... oy.

Lloyd I give a slight pass to, given he is 31 and has played 250+ games, and is now winding down what has been a great career. Roberts I also give a slight pass to, because it can be easy to forget that he is only 21, has not even cracked 50 games yet, and is still finding his way in the team.

But the other three it is dire. Florent & Hayward are perennial disappointments. They have kept us on this hamster wheel year in, year out: they disappoint, they're put under pressure for it, they respond with great performances where their advocates say, "See?", then they return to disappointing performances where their critics say, "See?"

So I'm not disputing that they haven't played great footy. I'm just exhausted with all the poor footy from them. It's too much, it's never rectified, it's two steps forward and three steps backward and we're left to argue and debate about it til we're blue in the face, all the while nothing changes with either of them.

170+ games in for both of them and we're having the same discussions over them that we were having 100 games ago. Enough is enough.

As for McInerney, he is my favourite of the three, but I am starting to wonder why. He is obviously two years younger, and has played about 80 games less, give or take, so is a little further behind in his development than those two. But it's starting to feel like he's just behind in his development for his age in general. He is 24 and played 96 games.

When I think about what my enthusiasm for McInerney is based on, it's based on patches... about a dozen good games last year before getting injured; a couple of good games at the back end of 2023; a couple of good games before signing his contract in 2022; about half a dozen good games in the middle stretch of 2021; and a couple of good games at the back end of 2020 when he first broke into the senior team.

All up, about 25-30 games... out of 96. It would be unfair of me to criticise Florent & Hayward for their frustratingly uneven form across their careers without applying the same objectivity to McInerney, regardless of the promise I think he has. At some point you have to start delivering on that promise. I've always believed that the majority of what you show is what you are. If you're a great player, you'll be great most of the time. If you're average at best, you'll be average most of the time. McInerney's strike rate is not good.

I'll note that he has been unlucky in terms of getting injured when hitting peak form, but that still doesn't account for the games where he is generally just very disappointing; perhaps he's the kind of player who really cannot play underdone and/or without substantial blocks of form underneath him.

If & when we have something close to a full list to choose from, I think we need to seriously look at holding these three accountable for their form, and beyond that, if accountability doesn't succeed in getting the best out of them, exploring the possibility of seeing what we can get for them on the open market. Anyone who can tackle effectively, perform reliably, or string together even three or four games in a row that look alike, would potentially be an upgrade.

I think we owe it to ourselves to be bold and not settle for mediocrity or attachment to players who produce it.

 

[bedford]

Be good if all long posts have the spoiler alert , it won't worry my mate the King

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Lengthy post here, so I've used the 'ol spoiler tactic so folks can ignore it if they want.

Spoiler

I still think our nucleus of best players is as good as any - Heeney, Gulden, Rowbottom, Warner, Blakey, Papley, Mills. Yes they can be frustrating and questions remain over a few of their durability, but they're fantastic players who are among the very best in the competition at what they do.

I think we need to almost do a mini-rebuild to better surround this nucleus with players who will actually complement them. I'm not sure that many of the players in our team actually do so.

The flanker issue in our side has been well-documented and I think remains a significant one for us. Too many of them just aren't capable of playing hard, tough, selfless, disciplined roles that allow the aforementioned nucleus to do what they do best.

Jordon is the only one who has shown a certain adaptability in this regard, going from an outside runner at Melbourne to someone who can contribute on the inside for us and, importantly, perform disciplined roles even at the expense of his own game.

But Lloyd, Florent, McInerney, Hayward & Roberts... oy.

Lloyd I give a slight pass to, given he is 31 and has played 250+ games, and is now winding down what has been a great career. Roberts I also give a slight pass to, because it can be easy to forget that he is only 21, has not even cracked 50 games yet, and is still finding his way in the team.

But the other three it is dire. Florent & Hayward are perennial disappointments. They have kept us on this hamster wheel year in, year out: they disappoint, they're put under pressure for it, they respond with great performances where their advocates say, "See?", then they return to disappointing performances where their critics say, "See?"

So I'm not disputing that they haven't played great footy. I'm just exhausted with all the poor footy from them. It's too much, it's never rectified, it's two steps forward and three steps backward and we're left to argue and debate about it til we're blue in the face, all the while nothing changes with either of them.

170+ games in for both of them and we're having the same discussions over them that we were having 100 games ago. Enough is enough.

As for McInerney, he is my favourite of the three, but I am starting to wonder why. He is obviously two years younger, and has played about 80 games less, give or take, so is a little further behind in his development than those two. But it's starting to feel like he's just behind in his development for his age in general. He is 24 and played 96 games.

When I think about what my enthusiasm for McInerney is based on, it's based on patches... about a dozen good games last year before getting injured; a couple of good games at the back end of 2023; a couple of good games before signing his contract in 2022; about half a dozen good games in the middle stretch of 2021; and a couple of good games at the back end of 2020 when he first broke into the senior team.

All up, about 25-30 games... out of 96. It would be unfair of me to criticise Florent & Hayward for their frustratingly uneven form across their careers without applying the same objectivity to McInerney, regardless of the promise I think he has. At some point you have to start delivering on that promise. I've always believed that the majority of what you show is what you are. If you're a great player, you'll be great most of the time. If you're average at best, you'll be average most of the time. McInerney's strike rate is not good.

I'll note that he has been unlucky in terms of getting injured when hitting peak form, but that still doesn't account for the games where he is generally just very disappointing; perhaps he's the kind of player who really cannot play underdone and/or without substantial blocks of form underneath him.

If & when we have something close to a full list to choose from, I think we need to seriously look at holding these three accountable for their form, and beyond that, if accountability doesn't succeed in getting the best out of them, exploring the possibility of seeing what we can get for them on the open market. Anyone who can tackle effectively, perform reliably, or string together even three or four games in a row that look alike, would potentially be an upgrade.

I think we owe it to ourselves to be bold and not settle for mediocrity or attachment to players who produce it.

And here I was thinking the spoiler would be “George Hewett was our biggest trade mistake!”

Which, on current form, is looking eerily true.

 

[caesar88]

And here I was thinking the spoiler would be “George Hewett was our biggest trade mistake!”

Which, on current form, is looking eerily true.

 

[bedford]

And here I was thinking the spoiler would be “George Hewett was our biggest trade mistake!”

Which, on current form, is looking eerily true.

I loved George and new it would comeback to haunt us

 

[Olian]

And here I was thinking the spoiler would be “George Hewett was our biggest trade mistake!”

Which, on current form, is looking eerily true.

Credit to George, missed a few games with a back complaint early on at the Blues. Also been dropped and sub a few times last year but has managed to work his way back into the team and find some form.

 

[Adnico26Parker]

Going by this player by player review, Chamberlain did not play in the AFL Academy game

Lachie Carmichael: Took a couple of smart intercept marks and was hard to beat even when caught out of position.

AFL Draft: Player-by-player notes from Academy game, Mid-Season Draft latest, Blues father-son shines

Plenty of top 10 contenders pressed their draft cases on Sunday, while Mid-Season prospects were also on show over the weekend.

www.zerohanger.com

From the CTL game:

Max King, the player widely considered the best outside the AFL Academy, kicked the first goal of the game and finished with 1.4, looking dangerous in the forward half.

Nicholas Andreacchio, who represented the Allies as a bottom-ager, was the dominant midfielder with 32 possessions.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Looking back at the Swans' first round picks from 2016-2022, some of the players immediately after our pick are painful to see:

2016: Ridley
2017: Bailey, Richards, Higgins and Starcevich - all consecutively after Ling
2018: Matched bid for Blakey - Caldwell came after
2019: Well documented, but McAsey was taken directly after Stephens
2020: Happy with McDonald and Campbell - weak top 10, but we got two of the better ones
2021: van Rooyen, Lohmann and Freo's Johnson
2022: Jones and Gruzewski (showing fantastic form in the VFL)

That 2017 one is a horror watch, we literally picked the only dud in between 5, yep us and our reaching, but apparently that's all sweet on here. It was a horrid idea, any of Bailey, Richards (who I wanted) or those and we'd be in a better place.

2018 was fine Blakey is an AA, Caldwell wouldn't have helped us at all, like GWS would have wanted to go home and had hammy issues to boot, we got Rowbottom in a controversial pick swap that year through astute trading with WCE though so I'd say that draft we nailed. If you get Rowy plus Blakey in your two picks you are happy as.

Stephens one, well lets just say it was bad, Serong being a Swans fan at the time and not picking him looks bad, at the time I did understand it as there was a mover towards (and still is) hybrid midfielders. Unfortunately Stephens was as soft as butter.

2020 is fine especially adding Gulden later, but that was basically an easy one, helped by North being well North and taking Phillips over Logan.

2021 was an awful draft another reach but apart from Van Rooyen there wasn't a complete miss there, Lohmann was a bolter and a half, credit to the Lions but they could after nailing the Bailey draft!

2022 was just such a hard draft with a lot less exposed form. Hustwaithe is a very annoying miss though many said that at the time on here, just ultra annoying Hawthorn got him on the cheap.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Going by this player by player review, Chamberlain did not play in the AFL Academy game

Lachie Carmichael: Took a couple of smart intercept marks and was hard to beat even when caught out of position.

AFL Draft: Player-by-player notes from Academy game, Mid-Season Draft latest, Blues father-son shines

Plenty of top 10 contenders pressed their draft cases on Sunday, while Mid-Season prospects were also on show over the weekend.

www.zerohanger.com

From the CTL game:

Max King, the player widely considered the best outside the AFL Academy, kicked the first goal of the game and finished with 1.4, looking dangerous in the forward half.

Nicholas Andreacchio, who represented the Allies as a bottom-ager, was the dominant midfielder with 32 possessions.

Oh goody another forward that loves a miss, he'll fit in well for sure! Any chance of a forward that you know kicks straight?

 

[Adnico26Parker]

Oh goody another forward that loves a miss, he'll fit in well for sure! Any chance of a forward that you know kicks straight?

He's not a forward, he was forced there because Chamberlain wasn't playing, and McCartney kicked 0.3

 

[LukeParkerno1]

He's not a forward, he was forced there because Chamberlain wasn't playing, and McCartney kicked 0.3

Even better let’s add them all to the blokes that struggle to kick straight.

Have to say we will likely have a selection before these boys we better use it well. No flankers please.

 

[bedford]

That 2017 one is a horror watch, we literally picked the only dud in between 5, yep us and our reaching, but apparently that's all sweet on here. It was a horrid idea, any of Bailey, Richards (who I wanted) or those and we'd be in a better place.

2018 was fine Blakey is an AA, Caldwell wouldn't have helped us at all, like GWS would have wanted to go home and had hammy issues to boot, we got Rowbottom in a controversial pick swap that year through astute trading with WCE though so I'd say that draft we nailed. If you get Rowy plus Blakey in your two picks you are happy as.

Stephens one, well lets just say it was bad, Serong being a Swans fan at the time and not picking him looks bad, at the time I did understand it as there was a mover towards (and still is) hybrid midfielders. Unfortunately Stephens was as soft as butter.

2020 is fine especially adding Gulden later, but that was basically an easy one, helped by North being well North and taking Phillips over Logan.

2021 was an awful draft another reach but apart from Van Rooyen there wasn't a complete miss there, Lohmann was a bolter and a half, credit to the Lions but they could after nailing the Bailey draft!

2022 was just such a hard draft with a lot less exposed form. Hustwaithe is a very annoying miss though many said that at the time on here, just ultra annoying Hawthorn got him on the cheap.

I was biased , but wanted Higgins

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I was biased , but wanted Higgins

i really liked him, he's a guy that needed a change in scenery to make it work though won't hold that too much against the recruiters. It's the other ones, the Ling disaster and the Stephens one just really hurt