List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion - part 2

[Joffaboy]

Signing and managing Dodson with two rucks will be challenging
Ruck isn't our weakness on the ground.

Finally. Rucks and mids have been pretty abysmal for 15 years.

 

[jwikked]

Lol, its all fun, nobody takes offence, except gringo of course, he is a triggered snowflake

He's not triggered at all, and the constant sniping at him is pathetic.

Over the last few years, he's right far more often than he's been wrong. Has a fantastic eye for spotting talent early, and (rightfully) doesn't blindly believe everything the club puts out.

 

[PJays]

We've had a great week as a club, and yet the same suspects barely skipped a beat in their morose never-ending tale of how shit we are

Every single poster here agrees on

1. Nas was the most important signing for St Kilda since.... who knows. A looooong time ago.

2. We would've been screwed without him

3. It's bloody awesome he's coming back

But, that leaves nothing to discuss. When there's 100% agreement.

The disagreement is what to do next.

I honestly think the TDK signing has potential to - in the long-term- massively hurt St Kilda.

Obviously, I hope that doesn't happen.

There are a range of possibilities. But when I consider the possibilities, the likelihood of each, and whether the reported salary makes this a risk worth taking- my view is no. Don't do it. Stick with Marshall, develop Dodson, Keeler etc, and a mature backup (Campbell/Boyd type) and spend the money elsewhere. And if you don't use the 105% that's ok. We'll surely cover 95% given Nas salary increase.

If people disagree with that I want to know why.

Of course we'll discuss things on points of disagreement.

 

[gringo2011]

Confirm this is yourself?

If he'd signed both 6 months ago he could have had them done at half the cost. You said he didn't think that they'd improve.

 

[stavro#4]

If he'd signed both 6 months ago he could have had them done at half the cost. You said he didn't think that they'd improve.

Who and what?

 

[hangdog]

Except that post was totally incorrect in the opening sentence!

Based on publicly available information.

So how can anyone have confidence in the rest?

Oh look, it's PJays, the forum bot.

Because PuBlIcAlLy AvAiLaBlE iNFoRmAtIoN about actively negotiated AFL contracts is always completely accurate.

 

[Joffaboy]

It's crazy money for TDK and an area of the ground we already have a consistent ruck and a young promising potential A grade ruck.
Add in kings contract 1 mill and we are at 4.7 mill
We are all in for NAS and Lyon next/last 2 years.
If we don't sign Windy, Wilson and Dodson we drop back again

What is TDK's money and King is not on a million a year. Was front loaded and he had KRA's and triggers. Would have been on the lowest possible of his contract this year. Probably 600k, but for arguments sake raise it to 700k. It will get smaller still if his knee is still a bother, games played, b&f etc.
Really your keep ignoring all the available evidence that TDK is not on 1.7 for the duration of the contract, King is not on a million, no contracts have the SC increases built in and 3.8 million saved in SC.
But continue to just parrot the same misleading information post after post if it gives you jollies.

 

[jwikked]

Was front loaded and he had KRA's and triggers. Would have been on the lowest possible of his contract this year. Probably 600k, but for arguments sake raise it to 700k. It will get smaller still if his knee is still a bother, games played, b&f etc.

Why would King sign a contract that is lower than the one he was on lol?

 

[Joffaboy]

He's not triggered at all, and the constant sniping at him is pathetic.

Over the last few years, he's right far more often than he's been wrong. Has a fantastic eye for spotting talent early, and (rightfully) doesn't blindly believe everything the club puts out.

Oh dear, wow gringo must be so glad he has you to defend him

 

[Joffaboy]

Why would King sign a contract that is lower than the one he was on lol?

Hasn't, lol. You ever been involved in contracts? The reported figure was a maximum if triggers are met. You reckon playing no games in a year and a handful last year would trigger the bonuses in the contract? Ok mate

 

[jwikked]

Oh dear, wow gringo must be so glad he has you to defend him

Not defending him, the constant sniping at him is pathetic.

 

[jwikked]

Hasn't, lol.

He has, if your figures are true - which they clearly aren't.

 

[Yawkey way]

No.....the permanent sackcloth and ashes routine, espousing that everything our club ever does is the worst, and not missing a beat in the routine for the days after we just closed the most important contract we've signed in 20 years...that's what gets labelled as bed-wetting nancy boys.

We've had a great week as a club, and yet the same suspects barely skipped a beat in their morose never-ending tale of how shit we are and how everyone should be sacked........it gets ****ing boring eventually.......

Skip over it, it’s no less annoying than the rainbow and lollipop brigade.

Let's get this straight instead of Joffa going off half cooked as always, I don't normally read his garbage but on this occasion I had too since it was clear he was banging on about me.
First of all I tried to message him directly to ask what his problem was with giving me the disagree thumbs down every post I put up, even when I wrote something not even the pope would be offended by out comes the disagree again, it was boarding on harassment and since I couldn't message him due to his profile settings I asked a Mod , no i didn't run to the chief as he said to ask him to stop the thumbs down every post.
I couldn't care if he or anyone gives me a thumbs down but each post should be judged on its merit, not being a vindictive clown like King Joffa ,

Seems fair enough to me.

The thumbs down was rarely seen for quite some time, since the will he won’t he Nas saga it’s back with a vengeance.

 

[gringo2011]

Really strongarmed Williams on that one. SoS really won that round

Didn't say he was any good at it. Chest beats then folds.

 

[gringo2011]

The sos hatred is a weird sword to fall on.

Literally praised by Bassat and Ross this week.

Oh and these nuggets..

What was the length of contract that St Kilda had on the table?

“They were really fair, they would offer whatever Nas wanted.
“So if it was two years, four years, or a big 10-year deal, they were open-minded to all.
“They were flexible and when Nas said that he wanted to do two years, they were happy with that.”

Did they came back again after that performance and offer more?

“Yeah, they did.

“To be fair, we didn't have to keep pushing them. They were sitting back respectfully, letting us just do his thing.
“They would have wanted us to come back to them with another price. At that stage, Nas was looking more and more likely that he was going to stay at St Kilda, so we didn't want to drag them along too much more.”

Who hates him, he's just on watch because he's not been able to lock away players in a timely manner and at round 24 we are still waiting for him to get shit done.

Going to be worse next year when he has bulk players out of contract again. You're a nugget alright.

 

[PJays]

105% spend every year to match the underspend?

4 years at 95% allows 4 years at 105%?

Almost. Don't forget the cap is increasing

I calculated the numbers a while ago

From memory

- If Saints paid 95% 22-25 they've got $3.1 mil

- Paying 105% 26 and 27 means $1.8m excess, leaving the remaining $1.3m across 28 and 29

$3.1 excess to spend across 4 years sounds a big amount (assuming they were at 95% back in 22...)

Until you realise Nas and TDK are on more than that every year.

Clearly there's an AFL arms race happening. Recent reported offers, and Nas confirmed figure have raised the bar.

Many clubs will have one player on huge money. Reid, Butters etc.

St Kilda has to compete in this context.

My view is its ok having one player in this new salary stratosphere.

But two is too many.

And again, their cumulative yearly salary is more than the maximum possible excess amount St.Kilda has banked for the next four years.

The best case scenario here is TDK and Nas both make multiple AA. They'd both be earning their salaries.

So the best case scenario is break even, value-for-money wise.

The worst case scenario doesn't bear thinking about.

In a hard cap environment, it's hard to overstate how important good cap management is.

I've always thought Bassat had the vibes of an excited fan. His public comments in this space don't fill me with confidence.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

No, but don't let that stop you. It will probably be in the media next week.

Tom Morris just called the BF Saints hotline. Wants to get in touch.

 

[Grav]

Has NAS re-signed. Out of contract in two years. Should start working on it. If we don’t hear something by the end the season he’s gone.

Tuesday

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Where did you hear this garbage

Miha has some inside word IIRC. Could well be a gag about bidding.

 

[PJays]

Oh look, it's PJays, the forum bot.

Because PuBlIcAlLy AvAiLaBlE iNFoRmAtIoN about actively negotiated AFL contracts is always completely accurate.

Publicly available facts from the CBA are always accurate.

Here it is for your reading pleasure

CBA

Find out more about The Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA) and what this means for players.

www.aflplayers.com.au

 

[gringo2011]

Lol wat? You carry on about having different opinions on here, but when someone disagreed with that bully he ran to the administrator.
The only person encouraging anything was Hubnestor who said best to put that bully on ignore, which I did. Maybe you can take it up with the mod.
As for him being a good poster, entirely disagree, but I am sure you won't run to the mods because of that, as you aren't a hypocrite.

Dude, for a guy who rubs nearly everyone up the wrong way, you're probably not self rejecting enough. I appreciate your training reports but you are a bit of a snowflake bully most of the time. If you are going to judge others perhaps hold yourself to those standards.

 

[Yawkey way]

If he'd signed both 6 months ago he could have had them done at half the cost. You said he didn't think that they'd improve.

Nas was an important signing to say the least but I can’t get too excited by signing our own player for triple what he was on.

Unavoidable I guess if we’ve been talking to him all year but it still stings. We won’t be the last this will be the new normal just watch.

In the NFL even with the franchise tag you have players who won’t play without an upgraded contract. The cowboys have a
hold out at present who has 1 year to run on his current contract and potentially two where he can be franchised and has been sitting out and wants out.

Players and their managers aren’t stupid, they know you can extort what you want out iof clubs. Here’s the interesting thing though, the great players who leave money on the table win super bowls , Brady, Mahomes for example.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Adelaide’s shit midfield coming through strong today, smashed by 20 in clearances and 30 in contested possession they will get knocked out in straight sets

I think I’m alone in thinking the whole list is a bit ho hum.

 

[hangdog]

In answer to that, I haven't got a missus for many reasons
Thank God it's not for that one
I can only imagine the worst, going on some of the Prince charming's in here.

I'd love to be in a same sex relationship! People look at me funny when i take my missus to the nets and bowl bouncers at her.

 

[PJays]

3.8 million saved in SC.

That's Impossible

The maximum possible excess from the last 4 years is less than this

But even if true, we're paying Nas $4mil over the next 2 years.

Which is more than your "saved SC" figure (that gets spread over 4 years anyway).

So where do we find the $12mil for TDK over 8 years?

From the existing cap.