List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion - part 2

[my name was taken]

Can't believe the AFL still has not closed the Preseason draft loophole. if a team has the asset others want then that should be their leverage in negotiations. But Preseason creeps into conversations most years that a big name wants a trade.

AFL has the shittest list management rules across world sport in every category. The draft, trading, free agency, they just keep tinkering to make it more convoluted.

 

[Minga]

If he wants to sign, he would have signed already. If the issue is money, he should back himself in getting a bigger pay packet 2 years down the track. Holding the club for ransom over a small incremental (club already offered $1.4 a year which is no small amount) is really bad form.

So the most plausible reason would be we're waiting for the 2 SA clubs to bid against each other and come up with the trade packages that will satisfy the saints.

I don’t run on that assumption. I’ll tell u who doesn’t want him to sign, at least up until this point, his manager, because yes - money.

 

[ScrappyDo]

My guess is Nas wants to get to Port but they’ve told him they’re not sure how they’re going to do it.
1. They don’t have the assets without giving some up which is robbing Peter to pay Paul. They have to give up Butters at a minimum who I’d say has indicated no desire to leave
2. How much does it affect the team and salary cap paying 1 player $2m a year
3. Nas has said he won’t leave the saints through the draft and burn them

Until Port can prove to Williams they can get a fair deal done then I don’t think we’ll hear anything

I think this is spot on the money and why we won't get an answer till trade time.

 

[akaifu]

For us or them?

Butters Bergman F1 for NWM is a terrible deal for Port

Butters + F1 for NWM + 2nd/3rd rounder is more reasonable IMO

Or Bergman + F1 + assets for Aleer for NWM

Or NWM stays and everyone is content (except Port fans )

 

[snails13]

How about in future drafts the AFL revert to the system they introduced for AFLW in its infancy.
Each team picks players from their own state.
Who wins out long term in that scenario ?

 

[akaifu]

My guess is Nas wants to get to Port but they’ve told him they’re not sure how they’re going to do it.
1. They don’t have the assets without giving some up which is robbing Peter to pay Paul. They have to give up Butters at a minimum who I’d say has indicated no desire to leave
2. How much does it affect the team and salary cap paying 1 player $2m a year
3. Nas has said he won’t leave the saints through the draft and burn them

Until Port can prove to Williams they can get a fair deal done then I don’t think we’ll hear anything

Do you remember where he said this?

 

[MordySaint]

This is the most recent update from what I can seeView attachment 2389339

Feel for the bloke, $$$ is great but the weight of expectation can be greater.

Hope he has a lot of support around him.

 

[snails13]

Butters Bergman F1 for NWM is a terrible deal for Port

Butters + F1 for NWM + 2nd/3rd rounder is more reasonable IMO

Or Bergman + F1 + assets for Aleer for NWM

Or NWM stays and everyone is content (except Port fans )

Yeah I love the 3rd proposal

 

[Leap of Faith]

Id say its my floor.

Ultimately we have to be reasonable, we can demand whatever we like, we can carry on like pricks and threaten the PSD and all that and all we really do is risk losing face with the AFL and the player managers (which i couldnt really care about) and losing face with NAS (which i do care about).

If its a go home trade for an uncontracted player there has to be a degree of reasonability from the side losing the player, you dont have to like it (ive made it clear i dont) but thats the world we live in.

We wont get fair value for NAS, we have to accept that, what you consider to be something you can live with and something that wont make us look like were being completely pricks to NAS and the footballing world is subjetive.

Bergman and a first (given we were into Bergman) is, IMO at least, something that we will look shitty if we refuse.
Berry and two firsts (or Whitlock and a first i suppose even though i hate it) is getting towards something we look shitty if we refuse.
Three fists is probably the same as the above (although i think its easier to sell three first being shit as theyre more unknown).

If you dont care how we look and how NAS views us then sure, demand Butters and a first, i dont think thats being reasonable personally.

No offence but I can't believe people are rolling over with an 'oh well we just have to accept it" attitude. I also know that what I or anyone else on here thinks is totally irrelevant. Doesn't mean I don't have a strong opinion about it though. Really disagree that we will look like knobs if we baulk at Bergman and a first. No foofin way. That is way unders for one of the best elite players in the comp at 22 y.o. Butters plus a top ten first as a minimum. We've done all the work developing and supporting this kid and if he pulls the pin :
1. He can go and get f*****.
2. We need compensation that is skewed in our favour minimum.

 

[The Punter]

Here's what no one is saying on the Ben Williams bit: it's in Williams' interest to sign the longest, most lucrative deal possible. But it's length is as important as the yearly salary, because it locks in Williams' commission. Any shorter deal increases the risk that Nas changes managers and then any future contract commission goes to that agent and not to Williams.

 

[Michael Scarn]

I just can't see how a trade gets done. Best guess is that Williams will tell Nas to sign for 2 years, and will tell PA and Adel to stockpile plenty of picks over the next 2 years to get a trade done

 

[St Neil]

If we trade that's what is going to happen.
Personally Bergman and two top 5 picks. So that would mean Port losing Bergman, Butters and no frdp for NAZ. The cost is enormous for the list management goi g forward.

Any deal would have to target draft picks from Richmond and Essendon. They both have two picks inside the top seven.

Not sure how Port gets it done if Zac Butters and/or Miles Bergman are not involved in trades for picks. And would those two clubs be remotely interested anyway?

Hawthorn have the first round draft pick tied to Carlton and that could be a top 6-7 pick, but Eagles have the first round pick tied to Hawks.

It’s looks to be way too complicated for any trade to be feasible unless Richmond or Essendon can be dragged into the trade.

 

[CaptainRisky]

The first step is getting to Moorabbin and training first.

Wonder how his latest surgery went?

I'm hoping but cant say i have any confidence that he will be a regular in the lineup , just seems one thing after another with him

 

[phantom13]

No offence but I can't believe people are rolling over with an 'oh well we just have to accept it" attitude. I also know that what I or anyone else on here thinks is totally irrelevant. Doesn't mean I don't have a strong opinion about it though. Really disagree that we will look like knobs if we baulk at Bergman and a first. No foofin way. That is way unders for one of the best elite players in the comp at 22 y.o. Butters plus a top ten first as a minimum. We've done all the work developing and supporting this kid and if he pulls the pin :
1. He can go and get f*****.
2. We need compensation that is skewed in our favour minimum.

Yeh, i dont think im rolling over but were poles apart here.

Butters and a top ten is ridiculous. If you wanna go that way by all means do it. I hope were reasonable (note im not saying soft).

For us or them?

Who do you think?

 

[akaifu]

How about in future drafts the AFL revert to the system they introduced for AFLW in its infancy.
Each team picks players from their own state.
Who wins out long term in that scenario ?

Nah I think letting clubs decide how much risk they want to take on is fine

We knew the risks of NWM's homesickness when we drafted him. We were able to minimise it but can't help when parents want their kids back home. Still think NWM signs because its ultimately his choice and he loves the club. Can always head back in a couple years after Port somewhat stabilise and he gets more clarity around us as a club as we begin our transition into the next generation past Ross + Steele & co

 

[LazarPoodovic]

Not sure if anyone has posted this here but I really enjoyed this!

Only thing missing was in the fullness of time, missed opportunity.

"Don't worry. We can go for the Tassie Devils."

 

[phantom13]

Either
1. Bergman + future first + Berry (with something going back to even up the trade)
or
2. Butters + Berry (with something going back to even up the trade)

I reckon thats pretty reasonable TBH. I think Butters is a pipe dream but thats not ridiculous.

 

[phantom13]

Can't believe the AFL still has not closed the Preseason draft loophole. if a team has the asset others want then that should be their leverage in negotiations. But Preseason creeps into conversations most years that a big name wants a trade.

AFL has the shittest list management rules across world sport in every category. The draft, trading, free agency, they just keep tinkering to make it more convoluted.

How would they close it?

Its sort of on us that we didnt get a contract signed. The whole restriction of trade and non compete stuff is ****ing stupid but suggesting a player who doesnt have a contract with a club come October whatever either MUST stay with the team they last had one or whatever other suggestion youve got isnt gonna be much better.

Best case they could find a way to compendate us with an FA style pick but that further dilutes the draft.

 

[Anythings_sipposible]

Berry, Bergman and a future first probably gets it done.

Saints fans will say it's not enough, but Nas is not contracted, and try as we might we haven't secured his signature.

Port fans will say it's too much, and they can just walk him to the PSD. But Nas is a bonafide star, and I don't think he even nominates without a clear road to the club he wants to get to.

The interesting thing will be if Bergman doesn't actually want to come to us, or if Port are unwilling to let him go. Then they need to find a top 10 picks to go with Berry and their future first. It was an interesting play by Port to secure Bergman f they knew they were going to be making a big play for Nas, but then again Port have made some all round interesting calls in their pursuit of Nas, suggesting that maybe they weren't that interested until his recent spike in form.

It's an interesting year this year as you'd think that all of Gold Coast, Carlton, and Sydney would be looking to move on their first picks in the draft, Brisbane as well but that's probably less relevant here. Could Port move a bunch of B graders on for 2nd and 3rd rounders, and then bundle them up for one of those firsts? Drew, Sinn, Whitlock and Farrell would probably get them picks with points, and they've got their own 2nd and 3rd to play with. Maybe they can, but at the same time, a lot of clubs will be targetting those picks this year.

 

[CaptainRisky]

My guess is Nas wants to get to Port but they’ve told him they’re not sure how they’re going to do it.
1. They don’t have the assets without giving some up which is robbing Peter to pay Paul. They have to give up Butters at a minimum who I’d say has indicated no desire to leave
2. How much does it affect the team and salary cap paying 1 player $2m a year
3. Nas has said he won’t leave the saints through the draft and burn them

Until Port can prove to Williams they can get a fair deal done then I don’t think we’ll hear anything

That's a fair imagination you have going on in your head

 

[snails13]

I reckon thats pretty reasonable TBH. I think Butters is a pipe dream but thats not ridiculous.

Butters not likely for us but we get the pick for him

 

[phantom13]

That's a fair imagination you have going on in your head

Im sure every player sitting in a room with teammates and coaches would say they dont wanna burn them.

Post his exit interview when hes back in SA with family and wants a trade i doubt hell give a rats ass how it all gets done (and nor should he)

 

[phantom13]

Butters not likely for us but we get the pick for him

Butters probably gets them a couple of picks, but agree.

 

[CursingFijian]

I'm finding it excruciating. Finally getting one of the best players in footy but fretting about him leaving constantly. It's like cosmic punishment following St Kilda. Just when anything looks positive we manage to end up back on our arses.

Barracking for the Fiji rugby team used to be my crutch, because they made St Kilda look like a winning side. But alas even the Fiji XV have started stringing wins together and now I have positive expectations that lead to trauma.

But, it's still like crying at work because you have a beautiful dog at home that may leave before you do one day. I find it's better just to treasure all the good moments when I'm home, and pick up and dispose of the poop along the way.

There's green shoots everywhere at the club if we look closely.

 

[chris_h_11]

Let's say Noah Anderson had enough of Dimma. Wants to come play with the Saints. His Dad's club.

Would you consider trading Tauru and Phillipou for him? It just would never happen. We wouldn't do it.

On the flipside, would we go to GC and say here's 2026 and 2027 1st Round picks, probably landing somewhere in the late-teens between acadamies, father sons and Tassie picks, and expect them to agree?