List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion - part 2

[gubby88]

If Ryan was still known as a match winner his age would be fine, but he is not. In the past couple of years he has kicked 35 : 33 @ 50% accuracy, surely we already have enough players who are unreliable in front of goals. Saints supporters see players from other clubs wanting to come to the club and get stars in their eyes, because they remember how good they were 5 or 6 years ago and the fact he takes a decent mark once a season.

The next obvious question is there are miriad of mid sized players in the state leagues who are consistently kicking bags of goals why not try something different rather than a burnt out small forward who doesnt apply that much pressure. Surely we can find a natural goal kicking midsized player that is actually better value than playing Wilson, Phillipou and Henry forward. They who offer very little in the way scoring power and are only sitting there because the club wants to get games into them. Even Owens as strong as he is forward his goal kicking is a liability.

Yes we are a young list but lets not get sucked into thinking these nearly 30yo's are going to make a significant difference. Not one 'quick fix' has ever been a sucess at St Kilda and its not about the start now!

Boyd was last years years example of a quick fix, we grabbed him thinking he would do something when really he is as I was suggesting a complete spud. We gave up a list spot for a spud in one of the strongest draft years in a long time. You only have to look at the other SSP and MSD draft players taken around the league to see how poor that decision was. Ryan is far from a spud but he is another short term fix, they simply dont work!

how can ANYONE be a match winner at West coast?

pretty hard to be a match winner when you dont get close to winning 95% or your games....

 

[CaptainRisky]

I totally agree. I would assess as:

No chance of being re-signed: Cordy, Boyd, McLennan
Very small chance: Jones, Heath
Some chance: Webster, Schoenmaker, Carroll, Byrnes
We want to re-sign them and work is underway: Windhager

But I can totally see Windhager getting sorted in the next week or so, the top three getting thanked for their service next week, and the other six being made to wait until after trade period. For example, if the TDK thing falls through, that might offer Heath a chance.

Regardless if TDK comes ( which im sure he will) or he doesn't i think Max is just going to be very limited as he really has no athletic traits , the kid tries but i just don't think he has it

 

[Dr Spaceman]

I will fondly remember those 24 hours when all were happy and full of hope.

When we all as a collective saw a future filled with promise. Where the club was making a stand and where the goings on behind the scenes became apparent.

And with that we had great faith that those empowered to drive us forward actually know what they’re doing.

Even the media and opposition fans seemed to be genuinely happy for our little, success starved club.

Memberships were selling like hot cakes and merchandise was flying off the shelves.

It seemed we were finally on track and things were looking up.

Oh yes, what a wonderful 24 hours




Anyways,

 

[TheJackal]

Recommend everyone go onto the afl app and watch Liam Ryan’s specific highlights v Adelaide 2 weeks ago.

Still has the hops. Still has 50+m goal kicking range. Still has IQ to draw frees from panicking defenders.

Unless you are in a brewery, I find the word hops to be such an unusual word to use when describing anything.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

My only concern with bringing in Ryan would be the length of contract. Even three years is too much imo. Players hit the wall pretty hard once they hit it.
Plus does he even give anything that Butts doesn’t??? I know Butts has had his injuries this year but don’t forget we’re all hinging our hopes on King who doesn’t just have weeks off he has seasons off.

 

[bergholt]

Ryan's efforts the last few years have been deplorable.
Can't blame him but, it remains to be seen if he can get back in form.
Personally, I think he is cooked.

A rising tide floats all boats and vice versa. Playing in a good/improving team makes everyone look better; playing in a bad team makes everyone look worse.

Ben Long suddenly looks like a superstar playing for an improving Gold Coast side. Charlie Curnow suddenly looks like a GOP playing in an underwhelming Carlton side.

Cam Guthrie was AA playing for Geelong when they were good. Jack Steven was never AA despite being a way better player than Guthrie.

etc etc etc

If we signed Ryan the logic would be that his efforts have been crap because the whole team's been crap and a small forward is at the mercy of those around him. I don't know if we'll be a good/improving team but I could imagine him coming over and having an exciting few years if we get upswing from everyone else at the same time.

 

[billings2paddy]

A rising tide floats all boats and vice versa. Playing in a good/improving team makes everyone look better; playing in a bad team makes everyone look worse.

Ben Long suddenly looks like a superstar playing for an improving Gold Coast side. Charlie Curnow suddenly looks like a GOP playing in an underwhelming Carlton side.

Cam Guthrie was AA playing for Geelong when they were good. Jack Steven was never AA despite being a way better player than Guthrie.

etc etc etc

If we signed Ryan the logic would be that his efforts have been crap because the whole team's been crap and a small forward is at the mercy of those around him. I don't know if we'll be a good/improving team but I could imagine him coming over and having an exciting few years if we get upswing from everyone else at the same time.

Big question is what is the plan with his 700k salary next year?
Rumour in the west is during contract discussions he has to take a large pay cut and is now shopping.

 

[stavro#4]

1-2 years out of player how does that justify the move. Its just lazy recruiting and talent identification in my view. FFS Geelong grabbed Mannagh out of Werribee he is twice the value of player as Ryan in my view.

Well I would first start at Ross and Ben Williams painting a nice picture about us needing to build something successful to retain Nas long term.

Then I would go look at Geelong recruiting over the years.

• Jack Martin 29 years old
• Jon Ceglar 30 year old
• Shaun Higgins 32 years old
• Isaac smith 31 years old
• Josh Jenkins 30 years old
• Jack Steven 29 years old

Re Mannagh, I point you in the direction of Max Hall.

Lists can be built many different ways

 

[akaifu]

Recommend everyone go onto the afl app and watch Liam Ryan’s specific highlights v Adelaide 2 weeks ago.

Still has the hops. Still has 50+m goal kicking range. Still has IQ to draw frees from panicking defenders.

Why would anyone need to actually watch football when you can just look at stats and jump to conclusions?

 

[OxSaint]

Twomey has Dovaston around our 1st draft pick

Hard pass for me. Surely we have access to better talent than that at our first.

From what I just saw in his champs package he is an average ball user, doesn’t like his head over the ball and lacks speed.

 

[stavro#4]

Why would anyone need to actually watch football when you can just look at stats and jump to conclusions?

I thought after the 2025 Nas saga that we have shown we are further evolved than the monkeys on other boards.

Jack Whitlock. First round pick

 

[Red White Black]

I will fondly remember those 24 hours when all were happy and full of hope.

When we all as a collective saw a future filled with promise. Where the club was making a stand and where the goings on behind the scenes became apparent.

And with that we had great faith that those empowered to drive us forward actually know what they’re doing.

Even the media and opposition fans seemed to be genuinely happy for our little, success starved club.

Memberships were selling like hot cakes and merchandise was flying off the shelves.

It seemed we were finally on track and things were looking up.

Oh yes, what a wonderful 24 hours




Anyways,

I swear even if we won a GF 24hrs would pass and we'd be complaining we have no good draft picks

 

[SaintsofSteel]

yeh but saints fans aren't the ones in list management. if theyre targeting Ryan, there'd be a good reason for it. yes he may not be a quick fix on his own, but even one different cog in the machine can start to make everything work a bit better. Is max king a quick fix? doubt it. Would we have won more games with him in the side this year? probably.

Who knows the impact Ryan could have in the forward line, as a senior player who was a key part of a GF win, as a leader in the first nations community? How many potted Wood? And now how many are praising him as a component as to why Nas has thrived at the Saints?

Some keep potting them, but the current admin have been nothing but solid (if not great) so far. and as i have said numerously, judge sos and co. after the fact, but otherwise you have to let them cook or else what are we even doing?

it takes risks to win flags, they won't always succeed and most teams fail, but you've gotta have a strategy and commit to it. And it seems they're commiting to a tilt whilst we have Steele/Sincs/Wilkie/Marshall whilst also bringing through our under 18-25s group in what will a finals competing culture.

for the right price, Ryan makes sense, and I'd be excited to see him and TDK in the side next year personally.

The admin are great but we are not discussing admin its list management.

Firstly we recruited Mason Wood at 26yo as a DFA we didnt have to pry him out of a contracted situation. There is a fair bit if difference and he is now 31yo and is starting to show the signs of slowing. I will be surprised if others dont go past him quickly next year.

As far as our list management is concerned it has not been perfect, but of course its all subjective.

I would suggest that the salary we took on for Macrae 1.1-1.2m per year was poorly spent $$$. He is cooked and the WB knew that hence they were so happy to get him off their books and add Matt Kennedy who has done really well for them. The Dogs had to give up a pick 6 positions short of what we gave for Macrae and I bet they are paying Kennedy much less than what we inherited with Jacks salary. Thats not good business in my view.

The recruiting of Boyd was an absolute cluster and a wasted list spot.
Adding Carroll has another questionable decision.
Hunter Clark being so injury prone should have been traded several years ago.
Re-signing Paddy Dow for me was more a compassionate move than anything else.
I believe losing Battle was poor management particularly if we are looking to become competitive in the next couple of years.
As good as Tauru may become he is going to take years before he can match it with the big boys.

The list/recruiting managers have arguably not got every thing right and I believe looking to recruit Ryan is another error. He is contracted WCE are a rebuilding side they are not going to let him go for anything short of a 2nd round selection. Unless of course we are prepared to send Collard there way.

Some supporters have the head up their backsides demanding a first round pick for Marshall and then believing we are going to Ryan cheaply.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Could it be outside the realms of conspiracy that the reason we’re going so hard on tdk is that the club knows/thinks that Max will never play again?????

 

[akaifu]

Yeah, nah Steeley Boy. I'm just going to copy and paste my post from last night.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You have got to be joking

Go to bed, Steeley Boy.

Macrae has been an excellent recruit. Avg. 25 disposals and 7 clearances a match.

He is ranked 4th in the AFL for clearances per game, 5th in the AFL for contested possessions per game, top 20 in the AFL for tackles.

A poor investment? How can you get things so wrong over and over again?

We also don't know what kind of impact he is having off the field as a leader on the likes of Garcia, Boxshall etc.

This might be your worst call yet

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, would love to see a source on Macrae being paid that much?

Only thing up anyone's backsides is where he pulled that number from

 

[stfan]

Another point to note, is that you can only buy what is available to you.


This trade period, there is only a tiny pool of players at other Clubs who:

• 1/Will improve our Best 22,
• 2/ And who are "gettable" by St Kilda.

The Cats by contrast have built up a creditable track record as a team regularly playing finals, combined with a "Country Lifestyle" that is attractive to some players as well.

The Cats pool of players who would be willing to join them is much bigger than St Kilda's.


So much as some might wish we were not getting TDK or Ryan, you have to then ask who St Kilda could actually secure who would improve us instead of them?

Remember too, that we have built a War Chest and the Club has to spend a big chunk of it now. It cannot be kept indefinitely. Spending it now has been Vears in the making. The Club needs to act now.

Ryan is by reports available and wants to play with Nas. So TICK
The two most indigenous oriented Clubs in the AFL are St Kilda and Port. So TICK
It sounds like WCE are ok to lose him, and his salary. So TICK. It probably also means his trade cost will quite reasonable, so BONUS

TDK we have done to death. High $$$, but is FA so trade cost is 0.

Mystery Player X. It seems there is another player the Saints fancy. How gettable he is, an how he would improve our best 22 I have no idea, as I do not know who he is. The rumoured Flanders would certainly have a trade cost though.


Aleer. Aleer is the questionable one. But big backs are hard to get.


Box Office. One aspect too is that re-signing Nas and acquiring TDK and Ryan is going to make St Kilda more watchable team in 2026, not just for St Kila fans, but for opposition fans too.

This will boost Club Revenues in Memberships, Gate Receipts and will help to land new and better sponsorship deals.
And it will also most likely mean better Time Slots for St Kilda Games, which then in turns hep us increase revenue.

 

[stavro#4]

The admin are great but we are not discussing admin its list management.

Firstly we recruited Mason Wood at 26yo as a DFA we didnt have to pry him out of a contracted situation. There is a fair bit if difference and he is now 31yo and is starting to show the signs of slowing. I will be surprised if others dont go past him quickly next year.

As far as our list management is concerned it has not been perfect, but of course its all subjective.

I would suggest that the salary we took on for Macrae 1.1-1.2m per year was poorly spent $$$. He is cooked and the WB knew that hence they were so happy to get him off their books and add Matt Kennedy who has done really well for them. The Dogs had to give up a pick 6 positions short of what we gave for Macrae and I bet they are paying Kennedy much less than what we inherited with Jacks salary. Thats not good business in my view.

The recruiting of Boyd was an absolute cluster and a wasted list spot.
Adding Carroll has another questionable decision.
Hunter Clark being so injury prone should have been traded several years ago.
Re-signing Paddy Dow for me was more a compassionate move than anything else.
I believe losing Battle was poor management particularly if we are looking to become competitive in the next couple of years.
As good as Tauru may become he is going to take years before he can match it with the big boys.

The list/recruiting managers have arguably not got every thing right and I believe looking to recruit Ryan is another error. He is contracted WCE are a rebuilding side they are not going to let him go for anything short of a 2nd round selection. Unless of course we are prespared to send Collard there way.

Some supporters have the head up their backsides demanding a first round pick for Marshall and then believing we are going to Ryan cheaply.

Macrae would be leading our BnF during the first part of the season and has come to a side that has made him at worst our second best midfielder.

Kennedy has come into a side where he is likely the 4th or 5th best midfielder

Boyd was a break glass emergency. Is likely gone. Hurt no one. Had a crack wasn’t good enough. Played 1 game.

Carroll actually has some fans. I think he has something. I’d give him another year.

Battle doesn’t move us into finals this year. Without rehashing that entire scenario. You allow for the growth of Tauru next to some other key backs and develop his potential which is evidently superstar high.

Even gringo is pretty upbeat right now. I’m not sure what we have to be negative about. We have a great group of kids with elite potentials. Our first superstar and top 5 player in 15 years. We are bringing in some experienced bodies in the right age demographic for key needs and we are still shopping for a good/great mid.

There won’t be split camps next year. I think everyone has watched or listened or read every available media this week and has got the message from the club that they need to go now whilst they have Nasiah.

As of yet, nothing looks like a gamble of the future. Really our biggest decision rests on Windy being offered similar to his North offer / getting him on our offer or trading him.

Ross was crystal clear about the Marshall scenario. Must benefit us or not deal.

Then it really just leaves Steele.

We are well placed to push it now.

 

[billings2paddy]

The admin are great but we are not discussing admin its list management.

Firstly we recruited Mason Wood at 26yo as a DFA we didnt have to pry him out of a contracted situation. There is a fair bit if difference and he is now 31yo and is starting to show the signs of slowing. I will be surprised if others dont go past him quickly next year.

As far as our list management is concerned it has not been perfect, but of course its all subjective.

I would suggest that the salary we took on for Macrae 1.1-1.2m per year was poorly spent $$$. He is cooked and the WB knew that hence they were so happy to get him off their books and add Matt Kennedy who has done really well for them. The Dogs had to give up a pick 6 positions short of what we gave for Macrae and I bet they are paying Kennedy much less than what we inherited with Jacks salary. Thats not good business in my view.

The recruiting of Boyd was an absolute cluster and a wasted list spot.
Adding Carroll has another questionable decision.
Hunter Clark being so injury prone should have been traded several years ago.
Re-signing Paddy Dow for me was more a compassionate move than anything else.
I believe losing Battle was poor management particularly if we are looking to become competitive in the next couple of years.
As good as Tauru may become he is going to take years before he can match it with the big boys.

The list/recruiting managers have arguably not got every thing right and I believe looking to recruit Ryan is another error. He is contracted WCE are a rebuilding side they are not going to let him go for anything short of a 2nd round selection. Unless of course we are prespared to send Collard there way.

Some supporters have the head up their backsides demanding a first round pick for Marshall and then believing we are going to Ryan cheaply.

I agree
Ryan won't come cheap
Eagles list management has been disastrous especially last year with trading pick 3 and the barass trade
Eagles wanted to burn down Laithlain last trade period
They will play handball because they have to after previous terrible list management decisions.
If you ever want to know true delusion just talk to an eagles supporter

 

[CaptainRisky]

Probably not worth repeating but Chicken Nixon thinks we might be into Shiel and an Oliver.

You were right , who would listen to that crap piece of work

 

[saintkildaman]

Could it be outside the realms of conspiracy that the reason we’re going so hard on tdk is that the club knows/thinks that Max will never play again?????

View attachment 2401819View attachment 2401819

Could be because Roma needs ruck support; we are dead last in the competition for hit outs, bottom 5 for centre clearances.

Either that or Max King will never play again and is actually a lizard who feeds off 5g

 

[Broski]

Where does everyone want to see Tauru settle positionally long term?

On blokes heads preferably haha

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Could be because Roma needs ruck support; we are dead last in the competition for hit outs, bottom 5 for centre clearances.

Either that or Max King will never play again and is actually a lizard who feeds off 5g

Feasible

 

[stavro#4]

I agree
Ryan won't come cheap
Eagles list management has been disastrous especially last year with trading pick 3 and the barass trade
Eagles wanted to burn down Laithlain last trade period
They will play handball because they have to after previous terrible list management decisions.
If you ever want to know true delusion just talk to an eagles supporter

A second rounder should do it.

It’s worth remembering, when you’re down the bottom and a stalwart of your success isn’t going to get the deal from you he can get elsewhere. You tend to help these players.

All clubs do that.

He is 29. A flag winner and done a fair bit of good for west coast. Can’t really see a situation where they demand the world. Otherwise they would just give him the same deal themselves. He isn’t 22 and has the world infront of him at this age to argue for first rounders etc.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Probably not worth repeating but Chicken Nixon thinks we might be into Shiel and an Oliver.

Ha Ha , Shiel FMD that ship sailed about 4 years ago , the chicken is fried

 

[thekizzler]

I agree
Ryan won't come cheap
Eagles list management has been disastrous especially last year with trading pick 3 and the barass trade
Eagles wanted to burn down Laithlain last trade period
They will play handball because they have to after previous terrible list management decisions.
If you ever want to know true delusion just talk to an eagles supporter

If the club ends up paying too much for Liam Ryan, then it's worth melting about.

Other than that, you are just assuming we will - speculation.

As pointed out by stavro#4, the club has walked away from plenty of trades in recent years because they believe it isn't value - namely Brodie Kemp.

Also Tristan Xerri, which is hindsight was a bad call but a right call at the time.

All St Kilda has shown in recent years is that if someone wants play 'hardball' and it's out of our value, we will walk away.

Three years and a trigger for fourth. 500-600k salary. Roughly second to third round pick. Sounds okay to me.