List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[gringo2011]

Gutted.

I reckon a lot of us here underrate him & his potential. I think he’s a genuine asset to the team (elite tagger, 2 way player big bodied, seemed to be involved in a lot of our midfield clearance highlights), and a standard setter.

Mostly gutted because I wanted to keep that core of Windy/Owens/Nas together. He’s a local boy, and represented a bit of the future of the club to me.

Really didn’t think this would eventuate, so perhaps the rumours he isn’t rated internally are true (wasn’t in the best 22 presented to nas still seems bizarre).

Still holding hope we keep him, however, now I’m beginning to think this mystery mid thing is true.

Wondering if we’ve got our eye on one or two players which if eventuates then genuinely no room for windy to play mid. That’s kinda the only thing that would make sense to me as to why we’d let him walk, don’t buy into the idea that his want for money is so high, but perhaps that’s the only other reason I could understand.

If he does leave, I hope most who are vocal on here about not rating him, and the coaches who allegedly don’t rate him so highly are correct in their analysis, because otherwise it’s gonna sting like a bitch to watch him play elsewhere personally.

Fascinating trade period coming up.

We are going to get Walsh because SOS wants to kick Carlton some more and his back is totally stuffed. You can smell it from here. Hanners II.

 

[gringo2011]

You dont pay taggers big money. If finding people to the play other roles he's played is fairly easy to do, matching the big offers for him would essentially be meeting demand due to his tagging ability which is the more unique skill set he has.

Yeah, yeah, we all know you are the number one fan. Nothing the club does is ever wrong.

 

[_Maximus_12]

There’s a gap between how much we rate windy, and how much windy rates himself.

If he’s unhappy staying at St Kilda for approx $600k a year for another four years he can take the extra money and prove us wrong.

One of our young talents for one of yours Dees. We’ll take Windsor.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

Give me Windy and a first round pick over Cmac or Flanders

 

[BrutThough]

Phillipou is looking as a reliable as King at the moment and Wilson played one exceptional game and for the rest of the season looked a long way off the best 22. Garcia looks closest to a full time mid and then probably Boxshall in his first year.

Flanders and CMac have both had their clubs say that they aren't moving. Not sure you can't bank on either coming over. Henry looks cooked. He's barely VFL standard at the moment.

Windhager is easily in our best side, nearly everyone you have counted on except Hall is a hope rather than a plan.

Sure, if you take the most pessimistic outlook on every player. The other side of the coin says Phillipou's issues this year are very fixable with a proper conditioning block. Wilson's one game this year showed a higher ceiling then Windy's best and was better then anything Windy has produced at the same point of their careers. Henry also just needs a conditioning focused preseason.

As much as GC can say Flanders isnt going, the same reports have also said we've been talking with GC all season so their public comments might not be the whole truth. Same with CMac, where the situation might change if a Merrett or Petrecca becomes gettable for them.

Now the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle of both sides of the coin. It's never all optimistic and all pessimistic.

But all plans are based on hope. If you wait until you know how absolutely everything will turn out, it's too late.

 

[CHBench]

If you're Windhager's mgmt, and you know there is so much cap room available - you agitate for a slice of the pie. The question is, when push comes to shove, does he really want to leave?

Melbourne is a strange selection with no coach atm. And no obvious asset to trade, unless Lever/Trac/Oliver are going. I'd hold firm and see this out to trade week

 

[BrutThough]

Yeah, yeah, we all know you are the number one fan. Nothing the club does is ever wrong.

Nothing shows how insecure and emotional you are about an argument then turning to a cheap, personal shot like this.

I criticise plenty.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

Do we think Windy will ever be an A grader? I'm guessing list management dont think so based on rumours and what our initial offer had been. So if we think he is just a B grader, then his type does grow on trees.

As much as people are emotionally invested in him. He's replaceable so if somewhere else is offering him a better deal, so be it. That's how the system works. Not every player is worth breaking the bank to keep.

If the club can't see Windy's potential and value to the side, then there is something very wrong.

I've read posters referring to him as just a tagger and not worth the $$$, how many A grade players started their careers in those roles.

I have major concerns with the club throwing huge money to bring in GOP's like Silvagni, Ryan and Aleer, yet can't see the value in their own kids.

Its a real blind spot for our club that outside players too often look like shiny new toys, when the reality is they are just another clubs cast offs.

 

[Armoooo]

If we lose Windhager for Silvagni and Ryan type players it will be a disgrace.

Would lose all the momentum we've had since the Nas re-signing.

 

[Bob Butter]

If the club can't see Windy's potential and value to the side, then there is something very wrong.

I've read posters referring to him as just a tagger and not worth the $$$, how many A grade players started their careers in those roles.

I have major concerns with the club throwing huge money to bring in GOP's like Silvagni, Ryan and Aleer, yet can't see the value in their own kids.

Its a real blind spot for our club that outside players too often look like shiny new toys, when the reality is they are just another clubs cast offs.

I think the same can be said re some fans rating our players too highly. Windy can’t kick and his decision making isn’t the best. These types of players are not in vogue at the moment. Teams are looking for skilful players who can break the game open (Nas), not the Oliver and Steele types.

Would I like to keep Windy? Of course, he’s a heart and soul type player, but only at the right price. I think that if we want to be a well run and competitive club, then not being pressured into overpaying players because other clubs are willing to is a big part of that.

Also, Ryan and Aleer are also not on huge money at all.

 

[stavro#4]

Each to their own.

I think there's a chance he can be, but even if he is just a good B grader, he's a very handy weapon to have on your list.

Other clubs obviously agree. I think if we let him go we have our priorities wrong. Time will tell.

He's a really good quality young player. Well ahead of where a lot of excellent A grade level AFL players were at his age.

He can tag yes but I doubt as he matures more he does a lot of that.

He is the epitome of a B grader that we have filled our list with over the years.

Yes he played wing and half back. But you are zeroing in on the fact the he tags and plays a few other positions.

Let’s have an honest conversation about Windy. Elite trainer and standard setter.

But unless tagging - doesn’t have a huge impact on the win. Can often be really detrimental to the ebbs and flows of a game with his poor kicking - EVIDENT by clubs willingly allowing him to roam free at half back or wing at the end of the year.

I don’t want to lose him. But he isn’t an 800K or above player. Again, I thought it would be youthful immaturity right now and he would calm down - but if he truly wants that money today and don’t I blame him, I also don’t see that happening with us.

It’s worth reminding everyone, we finished 12th and everyone has wanted or at times demanded we throw bags at our own players to retain them. That isn’t the balance that gets us up the ladder.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

Not an A grader.

Very good 2 way runner.

Absolutely butchers the ball.

I'm convinced you are on the clubs media/list management pay roll. Paid to support all the clubs interest on this forum.

Windhager has no more turn overs than Wilson, Hill and plenty of other players. He is 22yo and has improved his decision making and kicking, if the club can't see his benefits over the occasional clanger then we are not being managed by the right personnel.

 

[The Again Redemption]

He is the epitome of a B grader that we have filled our list with over the years.

Yes he played wing and half back. But you are zeroing in on the fact the he tags and plays a few other positions.

Let’s have an honest conversation about Windy. Elite trainer and standard setter.

But unless tagging - doesn’t have a huge impact on the win. Can often be really detrimental to the ebbs and flows of a game with his poor kicking - EVIDENT by clubs willingly allowing him to roam free at half back or wing at the end of the year.

I don’t want to lose him. But he isn’t an 800K or above player. Again, I thought it would be youthful immaturity right now and he would calm down - but if he truly wants that money today and don’t I blame him, I also don’t see that happening with us.

It’s worth reminding everyone, we finished 12th and everyone has wanted or at times demanded we throw bags at our own players to retain them. That isn’t the balance that gets us up the ladder.

Rewarding mediocrity generates additional mediocrity. Windhager isn’t an 800k player in 2026. If he wants the money, we will receive a middling draft pick not commensurate to his B grade talents. We move on.

 

[stavro#4]

I'm convinced you are on the clubs list management pay roll. Paid to support all the clubs interest on this forum.

Windhager has no more turn overs than Wilson, Hill and plenty of other players. He is 22yo and has improved his decision making and kicking, if the club can't see his benefits over the occasional clanger then we are not being managed by the right personnel.

Clubs trying to retain him. So how do you make the mental gymnastics work there?

Guarantee you if Windhager was running around for North, you and Gringo etc wouldn’t be begging us to throw 800+k at him.

Already said I don’t want to lose him. But that doesn’t mean I want him signed at all costs.

 

[stavro#4]

Rewarding mediocrity generates additional mediocrity. Windhager isn’t an 800k player in 2026. If he wants the money, we will receive a middling draft pick not commensurate to his B grade talents. We move on.

I’d argue that if anyone is throwing a 5 year 800k+ deal at him. That it’s fair to ask for a first round pick.

That’s the ball park apparently for both Cmac and Flanders. Why wouldn’t windy also get the same return? All these players have issues with their games.

 

[Sully111]

He is the epitome of a B grader that we have filled our list with over the years.

Yes he played wing and half back. But you are zeroing in on the fact the he tags and plays a few other positions.

Let’s have an honest conversation about Windy. Elite trainer and standard setter.

But unless tagging - doesn’t have a huge impact on the win. Can often be really detrimental to the ebbs and flows of a game with his poor kicking - EVIDENT by clubs willingly allowing him to roam free at half back or wing at the end of the year.

I don’t want to lose him. But he isn’t an 800K or above player. Again, I thought it would be youthful immaturity right now and he would calm down - but if he truly wants that money today and don’t I blame him, I also don’t see that happening with us.

It’s worth reminding everyone, we finished 12th and everyone has wanted or at times demanded we throw bags at our own players to retain them. That isn’t the balance that gets us up the ladder.

One of our best late in the season. Starting to show what he can do if used properly.

 

[beside the seaside]

My opinion, his ability to win the ball emerged as a major asset late this year. Regularly got 30+. But he is not a damaging player.

It's a tricky one. Dont think he's worth 800k. You'd hope he sees the vision and takes unders to stay.

 

[St Neil]

So I’ve got a theory….
We’re all in on Butters. If he’s leaving next year port would be mad not to trade him this year.
Clubs been tight lipped on other happenings.
Mistry Mid should be Butters, would be a perfect fit for us.

I thought the same thing myself. But I doubt Port trades Butters with an incoming coach.

It could be that Windhager is a chip in a bigger trade. As has been mentioned here, Demons could offload Petracca to Hawks, who could in turn trade MacKenzie to Saints.

A rare three player trade.

Saints then split pick 7 for pick 9 (TDK comp) + Pick 20.(JSOS comp). Either pick is used for Flanders who will soon be phased out of Gold Coast.

Saints bring in Flanders and MacKenzie.

Just a theory on my part.

Conversely, if Hawks trade pick 8 to Saints rather than MacKenzie (their payment for Petracca passed on to us) then Saints are armed with two top 10 picks. Is there another trade we would pursue or would we in fact hit the draft after all?

Options aplenty if that happens.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

Clubs trying to retain him. So how do you make the mental gymnastics work there?

Guarantee you if Windhager was running around for North, you and Gringo etc wouldn’t be begging us to throw 800+k at him.

Already said I don’t want to lose him. But that doesn’t mean I want him signed at all costs.

You did the same with Battle last year at least you are consistent - no matter how wrong.

Hypercrit comes to mind. You regularly state how incorrect the stated media contract dollars are for player offers or contracts. Yet you are happy to quote the 800+K the media are rolling out for Windhager.

Its amazing how your glasses get more rose coloured, as soon as the club decisions are called into question.

 

[Armoooo]

I’d argue that if anyone is throwing a 5 year 800k+ deal at him. That it’s fair to ask for a first round pick.

That’s the ball park apparently for both Cmac and Flanders. Why wouldn’t windy also get the same return? All these players have issues with their games.

Year after year the idea that the salary offer is relevant to the trade value is raised and it is so, so, dumb.

Trade value is dependent on supply and demand and whether a club is willing to take less than market value or walk away with nothing.

By offering an inflated salary that knocks out other suitors, trade value actually becomes cheaper, because there are less suitors to start a trade war.

If Windhager wants to go to Melbourne we would be lucky to get a 2nd round pick for him.

Personally, if that's all they offer I kind of hope we walk away from the trade and let him negotiate a new deal with us or try his luck in the draft.

I'm normally all for letting players that want out find their way to a new club, but I dont think Windy has been around long enough to deserve any favours.

 

[Sully111]

Windy can be so much more than just a tagger.

 

[Patty_vanda]

I would prefer 1 of Garcia or Windy in our midfield moving forward. Not both.

Elite runners & crack in hard but both of their disposal can let them down.

 

[bird_man]

Clubs trying to retain him. So how do you make the mental gymnastics work there?

Guarantee you if Windhager was running around for North, you and Gringo etc wouldn’t be begging us to throw 800+k at him.

Already said I don’t want to lose him. But that doesn’t mean I want him signed at all costs.

Do you know what the current offer is?

First reports were that we had 2 years at about 500k. Then we upped to to 4 years but I haven't seen any money reported.

I don't think we'd have to match Norths offer to keep him but we were a long way off to start with.

 

[seasonedsainter]

Sorry but what’s the tl;dr here? Too many pages to wade through

Mark Finey the plonker said Windy is headed to the Demons?

Bizarre-o world

 

[Sully111]

Funny how the narrative around him is changing now that he might leave.

If the club was trying to get him from another club the same people would be singing his praises.

You can set your clock to this shit.