List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part IV

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 4

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[Armoooo]

Keep Roma, unless it's for SDK which doesn't seem at all likely.

Pick 25 does nothing for us in the next 2 years.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

Behind TDK I would have Flanders as the next most important recruit for us. A middle aged clearance mid who can kick goals will add the perfect mix to our midfield.

So I guess it's no surprise the AFL will give northern clubs another leg up this year not bringing in the draft changes until next. Although the changes to the NGA & FS bidding next year is going to make for an interesting trade period.

For clubs like Carlton who have Harry Dean placed in the top 10 this year plus NGA Jack Ison its going to be a juggling act. They will be praying a bid on Dean doesn't come before their compensation pick, so they can use it as a live pick.

They also have a top 3 next year in Cody Walker who they are going to have to accumulate sufficient points/picks x 2 for. I guess if they lose Curnow they will do well out of that trade picks wise.

I wonder if we can somehow get involved in the picks points trading expected?

 

[bird_man]

So the same thing that de valued Macrae doesnt de value Flanders?

Cant say i follow that logic...

How many VFL games did Flanders player his year?

 

[SaintsofSteel]

Keep Roma, unless it's for SDK which doesn't seem at all likely.

Pick 25 does nothing for us in the next 2 years.

Totally agree, unless Geelong pony up some exceptional package I would be hanging onto Marshall.

The thinking is divided as to whether playing 2 x ruckman or 3 x tall forwards works, but Rowan is simply too good a player to trade unless Geelong pay well above his value.

Retaining Rowan would give our coaches all sorts of flexibility with other talls, particularly if they go to 5 on the bench.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Gawn, Grundy, Cameron, Jackson, Meek, Xerri, Witts, Nankervis.
Which four of those rucks is Marshall better than?

If you offered me a choice as of now, I’d take Gawn, Grundy, Xerri and Jackson. But I’d say the rest plus Ro are pretty close. Cameron benefits from constantly being in a strong team, so naturally gets a “boost”, Meek fairly meh this year, Witts solid, Nank still very good (but also got the boost in reputation for years of winning, now not so much).

 

[bird_man]

It really bugs me that every year Geelong’s trade target value is met with “ah well, they only have pick 17, so that’ll have to do it”. If that’s us, we have to go out and improve the pick or find other assets to add!

I suspect we won’t be getting a higher pick than that, but some steak knives would be warranted.

And I do expect that pick 7 would go for Flanders unless we can manoeuvre picks around to get GC something equiv in later picks for bid matching. Again, something back would be nice, but even Cal has suggested pick 7 (and that Geelong’s first rounder is roughly Roma’s price).

That's the thing, he's contracted and we don't have to do that deal.

I'd imagine we would definitely be pushing for steak knives though. I'd say their first and a future second is a starting point.

But we can't demand pick 7 if they don't have it

 

[MrFoster]

Carlton family say the same about TDK. Reckon he just hack kicks to nobody and watches it sail back over his head.

TDK's first instinct is to hand pass to a midfielder, not hack kick forward. That alone is a big win for us. As good as Marshall as a follower around the ground, in no way is he effective as a midfielder who can link up with other players and hit forward targets consistently.

 

[stavro#4]

 

[MrFoster]

If you offered me a choice as of now, I’d take Gawn, Grundy, Xerri and Jackson. But I’d say the rest plus Ro are pretty close. Cameron benefits from constantly being in a strong team, so naturally gets a “boost”, Meek fairly meh this year, Witts solid, Nank still very good (but also got the boost in reputation for years of winning, now not so much).

You are joking, Marshall was destroyed by Meek, Witts, O'Brien, Sweet and even English this year, let alone against premier ruckmen in the competition. He has been a good soldier whilst we also had a poor midfield, think he'll fare better in a Geelong team where their general skill level are higher. Think Hickey at Sydney and Stanley at Geelong.

 

[sauce_head]

Pretty sure I saw a strange stat on Brownlow night, last year Roma was the top 'non midfield' vote getter last year. He's got his deficiencies in the centre circle, but he's still a very good footballer.

I reckon he should have got 3 vs Melbourne for that perfect kick to NAS.

 

[Nutsngum]

You are joking, Marshall was destroyed by Meek, Witts, O'Brien, Sweet and even English this year, let alone against premier ruckmen in the competition. He has been a good soldier whilst we also had a poor midfield, think he'll fare better in a Geelong team where their general skill level are higher. Think Hickey at Sydney and Stanley at Geelong.

Marshall had a fractured pelvis and missed a big portion of the pre-season. You should probably consider that as a factor if you're going to compare his season.

 

[Veer Right]

It really bugs me that every year Geelong’s trade target value is met with “ah well, they only have pick 17, so that’ll have to do it”. If that’s us, we have to go out and improve the pick or find other assets to add!

I suspect we won’t be getting a higher pick than that, but some steak knives would be warranted.

And I do expect that pick 7 would go for Flanders unless we can manoeuvre picks around to get GC something equiv in later picks for bid matching. Again, something back would be nice, but even Cal has suggested pick 7 (and that Geelong’s first rounder is roughly Roma’s price).

Romas under contract, cats overpay, cough up a quality player or no deal.

Perhaps we go sideways and do Flanders for Roma and the cats can deal with paying the suns.

Edit - Late to the party, you guys already mentioning Flanders for Roma.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

You are joking, Marshall was destroyed by Meek, Witts, O'Brien, Sweet and even English this year, let alone against premier ruckmen in the competition. He has been a good soldier whilst we also had a poor midfield, think he'll fare better in a Geelong team where their general skill level are higher. Think Hickey at Sydney and Stanley at Geelong.

You're omitting that Roma had no preseason & was running at half rat pace for most of the year.

He pantsed English last season & has killed the others in around the ground play for most of his career.

He's a must keep IMO unless the offer is too good to refuse.

 

[gringo2011]

In the short term I’d prefer Marshall in our best 22 than Flanders.

Next year's midfield is going to be pretty thin. Macrae, Steele, Windhager will be the experienced mids. Dow and Clark experienced depth.

Garcia 26 career games, Phillipou 44 CGs, Boxshall 11 CGs and then Nas and Hall maybe as full time or impacts mids which takes players out of other spots.

Then drops back to guys like Wilson, Hastie and Trav who have never played there.

To me our best starting centre line would be TDK, Macrae, Garcia and Nas/Hall with Windhager on a wing. Maybe Wood on the other wing. Hill/Wilson high HF etc.

 

[phantom13]

The thing with Flanders is that he's still only 25 so you imagine out from under Rowell and Anderson he has the potential to go up another level still. He was playing as the third defensive mid with those guys in the side.

Macrae was over 30 and heading for the paddock. Plenty didn't think he was going to be able to hold up a starting midfield spot and if he can't play there he is a liability.

Flanders can play a multiple roles so you can shove him into other spots if he can't hold up in the centre.

How many VFL games did Flanders player his year?

You both seem to think im suggesting he and Macrae are worth the same thing.

Im not, im pointing out that Flanders MIGHT be worth a top 10 pick if hed played in the guts all year and repeated his form of 2 years ago, he didnt, hence his value is diminished, just as Macraes was.

Macrae was pick 45 as a 3 x All Australian former number 6 pick premiership player at 30.

Somehow Sam Flanders a 24 year old absolutely ****ing nothing former pick 11 is just absolutely worth a top 10 pick even though he suffered from the same issue of being shoved out of his preferred spot for better players.

Again, cant say i see the logic.

 

[saxond74]

So hasn’t made a decision yet, everyone is just hopeful!!

 

[Armoooo]

Next year's midfield is going to be pretty thin. Macrae, Steele, Windhager will be the experienced mids. Dow and Clark experienced depth.

Garcia 26 career games, Phillipou 44 CGs, Boxshall 11 CGs and then Nas and Hall maybe as full time or impacts mids which takes players out of other spots.

Then drops back to guys like Wilson, Hastie and Trav who have never played there.

To me our best starting centre line would be TDK, Macrae, Garcia and Nas/Hall with Windhager on a wing. Maybe Wood on the other wing. Hill/Wilson high HF etc.

It is a young midfield group isn't it, especially if Steele goes.

Flanders is a must. Maybe we do need Cmac more than I thought.

I'd be willing to have no picks in the first 2 rounds in 2025 and 2026 if we can bring in Flanders, Aleer, Ryan and Cmac while retaining Marshall.

I think it's doable.

 

[bird_man]

You both seem to think im suggesting he and Macrae are worth the same thing.

Im not, im pointing out that Flanders MIGHT be worth a top 10 pick if hed played in the guts all year and repeated his form of 2 years ago, he didnt, hence his value is diminished, just as Macraes was.

Macrae was pick 45 as a 3 x All Australian former number 6 pick premiership player at 30.

Somehow Sam Flanders a 24 year old absolutely ****ing nothing former pick 11 is just absolutely worth a top 10 pick even though he suffered from the same issue of being shoved out of his preferred spot for better players.

Again, cant say i see the logic.

It seems pretty obvious why there would be a large gap between the two in terms of price but I'll point it out further

• MaCrae was playing VFL through the year
• He was 30 years of age at the time of trade
• He was on over 700k a year, a lot of money for a player not cemented in the 22

Dogs were always going to happy to get his contract off the books. Flanders is 25 and while he struggled for form was carrying an injury and the coach was very keen to keep him.

It's really hard to draw a comparison.

Hope that sums it up for you.

 

[phantom13]

It seems pretty obvious why there would be a large gap between the two in terms of price but I'll point it out further

• MaCrae was playing VFL through the year
• He was 30 years of age at the time of trade
• He was on over 700k a year, a lot of money for a player not cemented in the 22

Dogs were always going to happy to get his contract off the books. Flanders is 25 and while he struggled for form was carrying an injury and the coach was very keen to keep him.

It's really hard to draw a comparison.

Hope that sums it up for you.

Yeh, I’m not arguing they should cost the same thing but Flanders peak value MIGHT be 7 if he wasn’t playing out of position. Just as Macraes peak value is likely closer to first round if he played in the middle all year.

Flanders is clearly more adaptable but he’s also clearly a level below GCs current mids, just as Macrae was seen to be.

How you can argue that Macrae being forced out of his preferred position and at times in the vfl impacted his value but Flanders being forced out of his preferred position doesn’t, makes absolutely no sense.

 

[phantom13]

It is a young midfield group isn't it, especially if Steele goes.

Flanders is a must. Maybe we do need Cmac more than I thought.

I'd be willing to have no picks in the first 2 rounds in 2025 and 2026 if we can bring in Flanders, Aleer, Ryan and Cmac while retaining Marshall.

I think it's doable.

We go two years without a pick in the first two rounds we absolutely risk having the same hole in our list that Gringo has pointed out numerous times.

 

[TheJackal]

So hasn’t made a decision yet, everyone is just hopeful!!

Who knows really. Guys like Morris and Edmond are just aggregators - they say a lot without saying anything.

These guys play on words. He'll have at least one medical, well no shit Sherlock, it will probably with the club he chose/chooses.

More meetings? Also, with whom? No substance to the comment.

Then a blanket comment that we already know about, the clubs who 'are in the hunt'.

I'd respect the flogs more if they just updated us with a, 'we don't know but I'm sure we will in the fullness of time'.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

Marshall had a fractured pelvis and missed a big portion of the pre-season. You should probably consider that as a factor if you're going to compare his season.

The injury plus his lack of physical preparation has let him down with the substantive rucking (wrestling) rules. He should have been encouraged to put on 5-7kgs size to help him cope with the bigger ruckman who man handled him far too easily at times.

Its all well and good having a ruckman who can move around the ground, but the fact he was getting dominated in rucking duels is the reason we recruited TDK and are even discussing Rowan. Someone should have said to him before last years preseason, I need you to get bigger and stronger. The same could be said for Max King and some other players on our list - the club has been too concerned with endurance when certain players needed more power.

 

[TheNewEnsign]

You'd think if we can't sell him the best story moving forward out of those four clubs then we're doing something wrong.

 

[gringo2011]

How many VFL games did Flanders player his year?

Talking of Flanders and VFL, I was on to him in 2022 after seeing him go insane in the VFL. His stats were off the charts. He had 10 touches in his first match then never dropped below 22 touches again. In 12 of his 18 VFL matches he had more than 30 and 7 of them were over 35. His last VFL game he had 44 touches, 8 marks, 7 tackles, kicked 2.0 and had 173 fantasy points. Taking the absolute piss.

VFL Stats - Sam Flanders

vfl.aflmstats.com

 

[Diehard Saint]

He is not better than anyone of those butif we take pick 18 ( around pick 25) in a shit draft for a contracted player, while making a Grand Finalist better, we are not a serious football team and have embraced mediocrity.

Agreed.
I would rather keep him for another year or two, allowing Dodson to develop, even if we don’t get a great trade for him down the track. He will have served a valuable purpose as well in allowing Dodson to develop mostly in the vfl.