List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part IV

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 4

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[Coconut_twirl]

I think we should ask for at least GC's pick 16 back with Flando if we're giving up pick 7. Worth the question surely.

No way they would do it. Saints might get some late picks to help with the Fincher bid. That would be useful.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

To be quite honest, Wilkie would have to be a dead set brain dead idiot to leave what we’re building at the Saints.

 

[gringo2011]

He played on the wing

I remember he played like a running HB occasionally too. He had a game against us that looked like peak Nas.

 

[gringo2011]

I think it's funny that a lot of the bullish 2026 previews on here are leaving out Tauru in the exciting young brigade. I'd still back him in to be the pick of the bunch.

Not sure we should expect too much short term. He's exciting but look a long way from being a walk up best 22 player late in the year.

 

[gringo2011]

That’s absolute fantasy gringo, have you read our ratings ?.

Jones B, Hall, Tauru, Travaglia D, that’s just a sample.

First year players get kept as a mark down. Guys who have been stars get kept as where they started. Move those around and it sorts itself out.

I'd have us grouped as

A grade- Wilkie, Sinclair, Nas, Macrae, Marshall, Higgins maybe, Hall definitely close to it.

B- King, Steele, Hill, Wood, Owens, Windy, Wilson, Garcia maybe, Sharman, Phillipou maybe, Butler maybe if fit, Webster.

C to D- Howard, Clark, Stocker, Henry, Hammer, Tauru, Keeler, maybe Dodson and Boxshall, Dow, Byrnes, Collard, LOC, Hastie, Trav, Jones etc.

 

[RWB4life]

First year players get kept as a mark down. Guys who have been stars get kept as where they started. Move those around and it sorts itself out.

I'd have us grouped as

A grade- Wilkie, Sinclair, Nas, Macrae, Marshall, Higgins maybe, Hall definitely close to it.

B- King, Steele, Hill, Wood, Owens, Windy, Wilson, Garcia maybe, Sharman, Phillipou maybe, Butler maybe if fit, Webster.

C to D- Howard, Clark, Stocker, Henry, Hammer, Tauru, Keeler, maybe Dodson and Boxshall, Dow, Byrnes, Collard, LOC, Hastie, Trav, Jones etc.

Agree with a lot of the ratings but interesting that your list has 19 A and B rated players. Exciting to push that to a full team worth with all our trades. If a few of those C and D guys can take the leap then there's a lot of depth.

 

[True Believer]

King, Phillipou and Henry are as good as new recruits. JSOS and Ryan fill holes. A heap of good youth like Hall, Nas, Owens and Windy still haven't peaked. Phillipou, Wilson, Garcia etc have more games under their belt.

I reckon we are starting to look like a very good list. Luck with injury, fixture and fast start and who knows how much better we'll be. It's almost time to start dreaming big again.

See, another couple of weeks of working on you and I reckon we'll get you over to the light side!!!

 

[Saintbloke]

First year players get kept as a mark down. Guys who have been stars get kept as where they started. Move those around and it sorts itself out.

I'd have us grouped as

A grade- Wilkie, Sinclair, Nas, Macrae, Marshall, Higgins maybe, Hall definitely close to it.

B- King, Steele, Hill, Wood, Owens, Windy, Wilson, Garcia maybe, Sharman, Phillipou maybe, Butler maybe if fit, Webster.

C to D- Howard, Clark, Stocker, Henry, Hammer, Tauru, Keeler, maybe Dodson and Boxshall, Dow, Byrnes, Collard, LOC, Hastie, Trav, Jones etc.

I guess when grading players for A-D, you would need to ask who on our list would walk into a current 2025 top 8 team and who they replace in those teams?

 

[SaintsofSteel]

I think so.. assuming all OOC players (Byrnes Jones Schoenmaker Carroll Heath) are delisted... Webster and Cordy already gone... which means 7 senior spots available (McLennan and Boyd off the rookie list)

TDK, JSOS, Aleer, Ryan, ND1, ND2, Caminiti (upgrade) = 7

so to add Flanders we would need to lose someone contracted or maybe try to shift someone like Dow to the rookie list?

Caminiti has to come off the rookie list which will open a position there.

I think your answer is in the listed OOC players, they will be waiting to see who comes in. Obviously if we recruit Fincher and Voss - similiar players like Byrnes will be in jeopardy. Hopefully we can offer any of those delisted a position as VFL supplementary players before they depart the club.

From all the talk it looks like either Heath or Marshall will be moved on/traded. Some have mentioned that Steele's tenure at the club might be limited and Lyon suggested Wilkie still has a decision to make.

The list turnover once again is going to be significant which will take a while for all the players to settle and adapt. The other question if Steele and Wilkie chose to leave who is our next Captain?

 

[True Believer]

By O’Sullivan do you mean Eamonn Armstrong??

I reckon he could be a dashing half back like Connor McKenna was.

That's gonna get too confusing for me - can we just call them "Irish 1" and "Irish 2"...?????

 

[crasha301]

How about we use that money on a former saint not gift money to players we have zero connection to.

Which ex saint that is a Brownlowe medalist, all Australian, premiership winner, multiple B&Fs and MVP winner as voted by all players is willing to come to us as rookie and captain our reserves?

 

[jwikked]

Which ex saint that is a Brownlowe medalist, all Australian, premiership winner, multiple B&Fs and MVP winner as voted by all players is willing to come to us as rookie and captain our reserves?

Robert Harvey looks pretty fit still

 

[tommo7]

Don’t forget Tex Wanganeen. There was talk he would get a list spot.

Confirmed.

 

[saintbill]

Need to keep Marshall no matter what.

Was surprised to see Max King

Multiple players found. Use birthday to differentiate. eg [PLAYERCARD="23/11/1962"]Joe Smith[/PLAYERCARD]

at a Bayside gym this morning. Must be in the mandatory 8 weeks away from the club period.

Was even more surprised by his approach to the gym. Didn't seem to have a şet program, was walking around looking lost.

Strength standards were nothing short of diabolical. Has the strength of a 16 year old who has been lifting for 6 months max.

I know it is not a strong point but I was honestly shocked how weak he is. Skin and bones.

Furthermore, why is he training at a crap commercial gym that has a truckload of boomers clogging up the machines?

Could easily be at The Foundry which is built for athletes and has far less people.

Super unprofessional by the club IMO. I remain convinced the club is not taking strength and conditioning seriously whatsover.

If what I just witnessed is how blokes train away from the club, absolutely nothing will be achieved the next 8 weeks.

Start with going to a proper gym ffs. Absolute rookie stuff.

 

[stavro#4]

Need to keep Marshall no matter what.

Was surprised to see Max King at a Bayside gym this morning. Must be in the mandatory 8 weeks away from the club period.

Was even more surprised by his approach to the gym. Didn't seem to have a şet program, was walking around looking lost.

Strength standards were nothing short of diabolical. Has the strength of a 16 year old who has been lifting for 6 months max.

I know it is not a strong point but I was honestly shocked how weak he is. Skin and bones.

Furthermore, why is he training at a crap commercial gym that has a truckload of boomers clogging up the machines?

Could easily be at The Foundry which is built for athletes and has far less people.

Super unprofessional by the club IMO. I remain convinced the club is not taking strength and conditioning seriously whatsover.

If what I just witnessed is how blokes train away from the club, absolutely nothing will be achieved the next 8 weeks.

Start with going to a proper gym ffs. Absolute rookie stuff.

Nas was literally at the club Tuesday morning using the gym.

Furthermore Max has been doing significant Gym work for a few months and put on substantial size.

 

[saintbill]

Nas was literally at the club Tuesday morning using the gym.

Furthermore Max has been doing significant Gym work for a few months and put on substantial size.

Just saw him 5 minutes ago mate, he is insanely weak. Absolute beginner levels of strength.

If he has put on size I would hate to see what he looked like before.

Also, if he is allowed at the club maybe somebody should ask him why he is training at a crap commercial gym.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Need to keep Marshall no matter what.

Was surprised to see Max King at a Bayside gym this morning. Must be in the mandatory 8 weeks away from the club period.

Was even more surprised by his approach to the gym. Didn't seem to have a şet program, was walking around looking lost.

Strength standards were nothing short of diabolical. Has the strength of a 16 year old who has been lifting for 6 months max.

I know it is not a strong point but I was honestly shocked how weak he is. Skin and bones.

Furthermore, why is he training at a crap commercial gym that has a truckload of boomers clogging up the machines?

Could easily be at The Foundry which is built for athletes and has far less people.

Super unprofessional by the club IMO. I remain convinced the club is not taking strength and conditioning seriously whatsover.

If what I just witnessed is how blokes train away from the club, absolutely nothing will be achieved the next 8 weeks.

Start with going to a proper gym ffs. Absolute rookie stuff.

A 16 year old. What I’d pay to see Big Bad Bill line up on Max and be thrown around like a ragdoll

 

[Yawkey way]

Which ex saint that is a Brownlowe medalist, all Australian, premiership winner, multiple B&Fs and MVP winner as voted by all players is willing to come to us as rookie and captain our reserves?

His record is not the point, might as well see if Dusty is busy.

We would ideally use it for a guy like Mason Wood who has been fantastic off field for us and may have coaching ambitions. I suggested Sen Ross last year as a potential two’s captain. You’d need to combine it with a development role to bump up the money, vfl guys get paid peanuts and I don’t want to clog a rookie list spot.

I don’t see that role as something I’d be willing to offer out of house. Our coaching group and football department would be well aware of players who might fit the role.

I’m also not keen on a guy like mitchell taking midfield minutes from our kids, he could still get 40 possessions in the vfl. To me it’s like getting Goldstein, great player but what about Dodson’s development.

 

[Mr_R0b0t]

Haven’t heard anything on that one sorry! Own personal opinion is it’s either his management negotiating for a higher $$ extension at hawks or he’s a primed target end of next year rather than this, could be wrong and hope I am, he can be a gun

Thanks mate. The only hope is if the Hawks need draft capital for a trade involving Petracca or Merrett, and CMac may want out for more opportunities. We can hope….

 

[Yawkey way]

so dont get in a premiership playing brownlow medallist to help shore up reserves because he's not a saints player???


now I've heard of rose tinted glasses, but gawd damn son

To what end ?.

What’s the point, is it to win two’s games, is it to coach ?.

All he’d do is take a rookie spot and minutes away from our kids. If you want him to play afl offer him a spot. I want our reserves to develop players not be clogged with ex afl guns to win a few more games.

 

[Mstr Strokesman]

Need to keep Marshall no matter what.

Was surprised to see Max King at a Bayside gym this morning. Must be in the mandatory 8 weeks away from the club period.

Was even more surprised by his approach to the gym. Didn't seem to have a şet program, was walking around looking lost.

Strength standards were nothing short of diabolical. Has the strength of a 16 year old who has been lifting for 6 months max.

I know it is not a strong point but I was honestly shocked how weak he is. Skin and bones.

Furthermore, why is he training at a crap commercial gym that has a truckload of boomers clogging up the machines?

Could easily be at The Foundry which is built for athletes and has far less people.

Super unprofessional by the club IMO. I remain convinced the club is not taking strength and conditioning seriously whatsover.

If what I just witnessed is how blokes train away from the club, absolutely nothing will be achieved the next 8 weeks.

Start with going to a proper gym ffs. Absolute rookie stuff.

You would think with the money he has he would have his own gym at home .
Just on Max ,see his injury report has him back training before Christmas but also read he hasn’t run for 3-4 months .
It is proven there is a direct link in performance if you start Day 1 of pre season.
If he coming off the injury and low base ,not joining in until mid December ish ,I wouldnt be pinning any hopes on a big 50 plus goal year from Max.
Personally I think he is an injury away from finishing up.You can only go to the well so many times.
I would be developing a game plan around a tall forward ,but not necessarily Max.Just can’t see him getting his body right to do the job needed.
Trading Marshall, for anything less than an exceptional win is crazy talk.But if you can have both playing in tandem ,it’s a bloody hard match up,where they both compliment each other.

 

[gubby88]

To what end ?.

What’s the point, is it to win two’s games, is it to coach ?.

All he’d do is take a rookie spot and minutes away from our kids. If you want him to play afl offer him a spot. I want our reserves to develop players not be clogged with ex afl guns to win a few more games.

so dont bring in experience to help mould and teach kids? just get in VAFA and country league hacks like Sandy???

 

[The Jack]

Just saw him 5 minutes ago mate, he is insanely weak. Absolute beginner levels of strength.

If he has put on size I would hate to see what he looked like before.

Also, if he is allowed at the club maybe somebody should ask him why he is training at a crap commercial gym.

Ease up. I was there as well.

It was Ben!

 

[Sainter88]

Draft Guru has us 6th on the A grader ladder with Nas not included and Hall still listed as D grade. We have a decent top end now. It's that large mid career pool that don't exist at the Saints that is holding us back now.

TDK for Marshall is definitely sideways with potentially a bit of an upgrade.
Flanders for Steele is an upgrade also both younger so give a few years more service.

Steele was looking ordinary for most of the time we've had Lyon back. He's fairly limited in a second position and Macrae has pushed him out while kids are pushing up. Flanders allows us to move him around to give Nas or Hall on ball bursts.

JSOS is filling a hole, Ryan is replacing Butler but adding something extra as well.

AFL Club Lists for 2025 - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

If you hadn’t noticed you’re the actual draft guru cobber

 

[saintbill]

You would think with the money he has he would have his own gym at home .
Just on Max ,see his injury report has him back training before Christmas but also read he hasn’t run for 3-4 months .
It is proven there is a direct link in performance if you start Day 1 of pre season.
If he coming off the injury and low base ,not joining in until mid December ish ,I wouldnt be pinning any hopes on a big 50 plus goal year from Max.
Personally I think he is an injury away from finishing up.You can only go to the well so many times.
I would be developing a game plan around a tall forward ,but not necessarily Max.Just can’t see him getting his body right to do the job needed.
Trading Marshall, for anything less than an exceptional win is crazy talk.But if you can have both playing in tandem ,it’s a bloody hard match up,where they both compliment each other.

I have been hard on Max because I know he could be the difference maker. I genuinely would love nothing more than him making it.

Unfortunately, I am super disheartened by what I just saw. I understand he is coming back from injury, but he also has zero upper body strength. Perhaps the shoulder injury has hampered his ability to get stronger. Who knows.

I really struggle to see a world where he dominates at AFL level. He is that far off it physically, I dont see how he holds up to the rigors of AFL.

Many will laugh at me for this post, I don't care. If you have beginner levels of strength as a professional athlete in a contact sport at age 25 something is seriously off.