List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion

[St Neil]

The good ones will always cost a fortune in draft assets to pull out.

You think Leake won’t cost a first rounder?

Most of what you listed are meh B grade at best types. Building the Richo era again with those.

Draft our own. We have a recruiter as good as any.

I think that is the point.

These parasite clubs with their Academies aren’t going to trade their draft assets at a discount, even if they are forced out with a never evening influx of zoned talent.

We have to draft our own. Pick the eyes out of the draft and find exceptional talent.

It’s why Simon Dalrymple is probably the most important person at the club now.

 

[gringo2011]

I smile when people think the AFL is a sporting organisation. They think they are in the entertainment industry, so decisions are based on creating an entertainment package that attracts the most sales from tickets , Tv, merch, etc. sort of like Disney. They only need to create the illusion of running a competitive sporting competition. Sort of like wwe- everyone knows it's not real.

They genuinely want competitiveness but they also have a need to justify their expansion teams and make them competitive in non traditional markets for expansion and dollars. Carlton, Essendon and St Kilda are not what they want but all three have been run by idiots that have defied the systems put in place to help struggling clubs reboot.

 

[gringo2011]

Why should we have to be satisfied
(indeed grateful) for their hand me downs and players they’ve rejected.

It’s a complete joke! Just not funny.

Because other clubs work in the same system and learn to exploit it for themselves. If we were a top 8 side with momentum we'd look attractive to want away kids.

At the moment we've had to repair a lot of mistakes that we made 10 to 5 years ago. It has set us back a long way and made us have to work with some serious restrictions.

To me it looks like we was to blame everyone but ourselves and now that there are some father sons and academy kids on the horizon we'll cut our own feet off to hide our shame.

The northern academies need reining in and the system needs to be fairer but it looks on the cards anyway.

 

[akaifu]

Which kid was traded for significant unders without having some big injury concerns and went on to become a star?

They get their blood back in return for letting the good kids go.

It’s like if Sam Flanders gets shaken loose. He is going to cost a first rounder.

Jack Steele, Taylor Adams, Bobby Hill go alright

 

[_Maximus_12]

Jack Steele, Taylor Adams, Bobby Hill go alright

Steele for a future second was fair value.
Adam’s for Heath Shaw, 26 years at the time was in GWS favour
Bobby Hill was definitely unders.

 

[Joffaboy]

Wasn’t what we needed? Have to disagree with that, if one of the best players in the league join you make it work.

Look at our bottom 6 players in those years, Cousins coming off the bench into the midfield would have easily made us a 3 goal better side

He was absolutely cooked at the Tigers.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Because other clubs work in the same system and learn to exploit it for themselves. If we were a top 8 side with momentum we'd look attractive to want away kids.

At the moment we've had to repair a lot of mistakes that we made 10 to 5 years ago. It has set us back a long way and made us have to work with some serious restrictions.

To me it looks like we was to blame everyone but ourselves and now that there are some father sons and academy kids on the horizon we'll cut our own feet off to hide our shame.

The northern academies need reining in and the system needs to be fairer but it looks on the cards anyway.

Yes, yes, we all know about our historical mistakes.
We’ve gone over it ad nauseum.
Basset et al have also admitted it. Nobody is blaming everyone but ourselves - that’s a disingenuous statement.

HOWEVER, we have gone a long way towards rectifying it and are a better run club today than probably ever.

Nevertheless, it does not negate the fact that we are attempting to claw our way forward now with one hand firmly tied behind our backs - as are many of the smaller clubs.

Just fix the inequalities. Should be a no-brainer in a so-called professional competition.

 

[Joffaboy]

Jack Steele, Taylor Adams, Bobby Hill go alright

So you can name three in 10 years

 

[Diehard Saint]

Because other clubs work in the same system and learn to exploit it for themselves. If we were a top 8 side with momentum we'd look attractive to want away kids.

At the moment we've had to repair a lot of mistakes that we made 10 to 5 years ago. It has set us back a long way and made us have to work with some serious restrictions.

To me it looks like we was to blame everyone but ourselves and now that there are some father sons and academy kids on the horizon we'll cut our own feet off to hide our shame.

The northern academies need reining in and the system needs to be fairer but it looks on the cards anyway.

Well that’s the point - they DON’T work in the same system.
Do you think the GCS and Giants would be having such angst at the thought of losing NAS that we are?
Please. Not a chance. For them it’s one great talent out, another right in.

 

[stavro#4]

Jack Steele, Taylor Adams, Bobby Hill go alright

Steele for a future second was fair value.
Adam’s for Heath Shaw, 26 years at the time was in GWS favour
Bobby Hill was definitely unders.

Bobby hill had testicular cancer in 2022 and was traded that same season. So a reason why he went for unders.

The previous year the Giants had rejected a second round pick from Essendon as they wanted more or happy to retain.

 

[Joffaboy]

Yes, yes, we all know about our historical mistakes.
We’ve gone over it ad nauseum.
Basset et al have also admitted it. Nobody is blaming everyone but ourselves - that’s a disingenuous statement.

HOWEVER, we have gone a long way towards rectifying it and are a better run club today than probably ever.

Nevertheless, it does not negate the fact that we are attempting to claw our way forward now with one hand firmly tied behind our backs - as are many of the smaller clubs.

Just fix the inequalities. Should be a no-brainer in a so-called professional competition.

The whole point that Gringo conveniently leaves out.

So we do what he says, we get NWM, for 11, Pou for 10. Two potential champions, both flight risks because we have to go SA to get them while the fake clubs just get top ten locals (and for free).

Most of the best players drafted are traditionally from the Sandy Dragons. Do we get exclusive access to our geographic area?
How someone can convince themselves that the AFL is an even competition where all we have to do is 'just draft better' or just recruit players like Essendon, Carlton or Hawthorn do without even looking at the reasons why we can't and they can is, as you say, disingenuous.

 

[akaifu]

So you can name three in 10 years

Lol alright

Adam Treloar, Will Hoskin-Elliott, Josh Bruce, Toby Bedford, Jye Caldwell

 

[Joffaboy]

Well that’s the point - they DON’T work in the same system.
Do you think the GCS and Giants would be having such angst at the thought of losing NAS that we are?
Please. Not a chance. For them it’s one great talent out, another right in.

Even if you don't consider the fake clubs for drafting and look at the other avenue, recruiting, are we on a level playing field with WCE and Freo (two local derby sellouts every year and geographical advantage) Port and Adelaide (two showdown sellouts every year and geographical advantage), or Carlton, Essendon, Geelong, Collingwood, Hawthorn, and Richmond multiple blockbuster games every year for exposure and gate receipts.

We basically can complete with Melbourne, Bulldogs and North for players. Yeah, level playing field.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Even if you don't consider the fake clubs for drafting and look at the other avenue, recruiting, are we on a level playing field with WCE and Freo (two local derby sellouts every year and geographical advantage) Port and Adelaide (two showdown sellouts every year and geographical advantage), or Carlton, Essendon, Geelong, Collingwood, Hawthorn, and Richmond multiple blockbuster games every year for exposure and gate receipts.

We basically can complete with Melbourne, Bulldogs and North for players. Yeah, level playing field.

Spot on.
We’re just making up the numbers.
I know it, you know it, anyone with half a braincell knows it.

 

[St Neil]

The northern academies need reining in and the system needs to be fairer but it looks on the cards anyway.

Why not do it this year? Why delay?

The AFL tinkers at the edges with DVI points and reducing concessions for matched bids, but in reality nothing has changed.

It’s a conjurer’s trick. Take any card, but it always ends up the card they wanted you to take.

The AFL could end the draft zoning for Academies immediately. They choose not to.

I doubt it will ever completely end. Not until a club has the guts and good fortune to keep justifiably firing in consecutive bids early in the first round of the draft for Academy talent, and those bids keep getting matched.

Maybe 4 or 5 consecutive bids.

Only then will we see change. The embarrassment of the farce, and the debate it generates, will shame the AFL into doing something about it.

 

[Joffaboy]

Lol alright

Adam Treloar, Will Hoskin-Elliott, Josh Bruce, Toby Bedford, Jye Caldwell

All superstars lol. Treloar is the only A- player on that list, the rest are B or B+. Fair dinkum, look at all the superstars they have lost

 

[stavro#4]

Lol alright

Adam Treloar, Will Hoskin-Elliott, Josh Bruce, Toby Bedford, Jye Caldwell

Collingwood paid a high price to secure Treloar from Greater Western Sydney in 2015, sending two first-round selections to GWS.

WHE still cost a second rounder after 4 meh years.

Bedford was traded from Melbourne

Caldwell cost 2 seconds for himself and 2 late picks. Thats after 2 years with soft tissue injuries at the giants



Literally Bruce is the only one but that’s not exactly taking a proven talent being shaken out. That’s a bloke very much on the fringes who we developed.

 

[gringo2011]

Steele for a future second was fair value.
Adam’s for Heath Shaw, 26 years at the time was in GWS favour
Bobby Hill was definitely unders.

Joshy Bruce was a steal, Finlayson for a future 3rd round pick while under contact. There are heaps of players that went cheap. Even freo got a couple of good season out of Will Brodie.

 

[gringo2011]

Why not do it this year? Why delay?

The AFL tinkers at the edges with DVI points and reducing concessions for matched bids, but in reality nothing has changed.

It’s a conjurer’s trick. Take any card, but it always ends up the card they wanted you to take.

The AFL could end the draft zoning for Academies immediately. They choose not to.

I doubt it will ever completely end. Not until a club has the guts and good fortune to keep justifiably firing in consecutive bids early in the first round of the draft for Academy talent, and those bids keep getting matched.

Maybe 4 or 5 consecutive bids.

Only then will we see change. The embarrassment of the farce, and the debate it generates, will shame the AFL into doing something about it.

They are pulling it in this year.

 

[stavro#4]

Joshy Bruce was a steal, Finlayson for a future 3rd round pick while under contact. There are heaps of players that went cheap. Even freo got a couple of good season out of Will Brodie.

Bruce and Finlaysin are moneyball opportunities

 

[gringo2011]

Bruce and Finlaysin are moneyball opportunities

Finlayson was playing good footy when they let him go.

 

[Joffaboy]

The northern academies need reining in and the system needs to be fairer but it looks on the cards anyway.

Just in time for Tasmania to compromise the draft

 

[Joffaboy]

Bruce and Finlaysin are moneyball opportunities

Easier exercise would be to name one player in their current team that is worse in the position of a player they have let go.

 

[akaifu]

All superstars lol. Treloar is the only A- player on that list, the rest are B or B+. Fair dinkum, look at all the superstars they have lost

The amount of superstars they've lost is the main issue tbh

They can afford to trade their stars because it means their first round picks get more opportunities

Its a never-ending cycle of trading their stars at maximum value, using the picks, developing the picks, then trading them again

I agree though, I think we continue to hit the draft and shouldn't bother with the speculative types. We have enough GOPs - now we need quality over quantity

We also need to make the same calls on our stars. Steele & Marshall

 

[stfan]

Watching the Gold Coast last night. They definitely don’t look like a team that needs another three first rounders.

And unless things change, just more top end talent every year irrespective of where they finish the year.


Plus the Suns also have the advantage of a maximum size of 49 players. This includes a maximum of 38 primary list players, 9 Category A rookies, and 2 Category B rookies.

Whereas St Kilda have a minimum of 37 players and a maximum of 44 players on their books, with primary lists between 36 and 38 players.

So the Suns get to mine for more rough diamonds, as well as top end talent.

I hope we never stop that fight

Yes have to keep pushing, as the draft, which was meant to level out the teams, now is being used to advantage selected Clubs.