List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion

[BrutThough]

We seem to be at peak trade period pages per day in this thread and it's still July.

 

[saintbill]

Starting to look to me like we will lose NAS and TDK doesn't come. The pressure on TDK if NAS walks and it is reported that Port were willing to pay more will be too much bare, if he walks in the door on a mega contract.

A client of mine has had good mail before. Third hand info so take it for what it is, but one of his clients is a player manager. Has given good info before. Anyway, according to him TDK is now open to a move to the Cats and they are in discussions.

Personally, don't care either way. His form is seriously worrying. Yeah, maybe he is checked out to a degree but is that the kind of attitude you want from a dude you are paying 1.7m? He doesn't move the needle much.

Also, TDK looks like a Geelong player. Needs a haircut. Pass for me.

 

[Minga]

I have a feeling Ben Williams hasn’t even presented the latest offer to his client. Giving dodgy real estate vibes.

Winning big brother and starting an afl player management company, it’s just such a type of person I had to google to make sure it wasn’t satire. The guy is a walking betoota advocate column.

 

[gringo2011]

I have watched Derksen before. He is another third tall, not a full back

If we get him then we're just adding the same type of player as Tauru/Barrat/Wilkie/LOC who can't all play in the same side

I'd like to see his 1v1 contest numbers and the stats of his direct opponent

He's a KP if Barrat is a KP. Probably should have held on to Van Es for a bit longer.

 

[BrutThough]

One is a C grade 25 year old with a few games, one is pushing A grade on his day 28 and would fill an instant need. The worse player requires possibly a second round pick, the older one would cost less money and zero draft capital. The C grader might come good, might not. They other one might get injured might not.

It's worth considering.

Fair.

Maybe Jack doesnt want to play at the same club as his father again? It would probably add a lot of pressure to his recruitment and might not want to deal with that.

 

[MordySaint]

I’m sure it didn’t start with paying a bloke $2m a season who couldn’t commit for the long term.

Nothings forever... get used to it

What matters is now

 

[Broski]

We are going to max out this thread by Sunday night. My contribution is that I think Nas is a really good footballer and I would like the club to ensure that he continues to play in the colours I like.

 

[stavro#4]

Nothings forever... get used to it

What matters is now

Okay everyone, let’s all take less and commit to the long term - we want to build a premiership side.

Except nas, he gets more and stays for less.

Deal!

 

[Diehard Saint]

But look at what we've been offering players outside the club

Its well known you have to overpay to prise players out of their clubs.
Add to that the St Kilda tax because "not destination club" etc.

BIG difference now is we have the $$$ to spend right now.
I have no doubt that Tdk ( whether the 1.7 is correct or not) would be getting it majorly front-loaded over 2/3 years when we don't have to have as much cap available, as our up and comers - Pou, Windy, Hall, Owens etc are not demanding huge contracts now.
When they are, in 3, 4, 5 years, Tdk will just be on "ordinary" dollars.

 

[From 45]

That’s not the actual point I was making paddy.

I’m very clearly questioning the brains that will throw everything to retain a player for 2 years with no long term commitment and highlighting the future issues that come off the back of it.

A number of posters are happy to kick the can down the road. No issues if you feel similar.

But if you think Nas or anyone who acts for or supports him is going to be expecting less than the $2m a year you are throwing at him now - then I have magic beans to sell you.

The same people want to tell me but there will be better trade offers. It’s the same shit we will be offered today. He is still OOC. There is still all the same challenges and issues we are dealing with and arguing between ourselves now but we will also have the Tassie draft that year.

A 2 year deal on a reasonable increase now, still gives you a decent hand to play if we face all the same issues again

If he continues on this trajectory, does it matter if we continue to pay him a minimum of $2m PA? He’d be worth every cent.

 

[akaifu]

Yeah it was a risk dating back to the day we drafted him. It’s why Gerard Healy said we made the wrong move, despite people dancing on that a few days ago

The only "why" for Gerard Healy's call was because he had never watched an ounce of footage of either prospect

One of the all-time uninformed calls I've ever witnessed

 

[gringo2011]

I have no idea what's going on in the background but i do know one thing , Nas is going to be one of the best players in the league if he already isn't ( yeah i know ground breaking news) but you just cant go completely mental and offer him crazy money just because we want to keep him.
I don't recall clubs like Geelong and Brisbane back in the day when they were always in grand finals paying crazy amounts to one player , they all stuck together and took less to win flags , its called a team not an individual.
We have a lot of good young kids coming through who in a year or so who could be demanding big money for their next contract and how's it going to work out if we cant keep them because Nass and his manager has bled us dry.
Players i see taking massive steps are Garcia, Hastie , Box , Hall, Tauru, Keeler when he gets his sh1t together, Dodson plus the general improvement of blokes like Windy , Hammer , Sharman , Tobie, Windy, Wilson and if the giraffe cand get on the park (although Max has already taken a fair bite of the pie)
We need to offer Nas a fair deal and if he wants to stay with us he does, if he wants to go home so be it , you cant just keep throwing cash at him , sooner or later you need to say we have been more than fair and if we want to keep this list together this is all we can afford to pay you.
Who knows in Two years time Tauru maybe the hottest ticket in town demanding more than Nas and we say sorry but we spent all our cash on Nas
All this wine and dine bullsh1t to show we love him Bla Bla Bla ( as if he doesn't know that ) its time for him to decide and stop playing poker.
We all hope he stays but not at the detriment of loosing several others in two years time IMO

Geelong don't need to over pay because players want into their system. Brisbane over paid plenty when they were shit. Once you get close to a flag everything runs a lot smoother. When you haven't built the foundations you have to pay overs to keep people invested or interested in coming. Sydney paid Buddy ridiculous money and it never hamstrung them. Paying the highest wage in AFL for guys like Zac Williams, Brad Hill, the shit McGovern etc does more harm than paying a champion a huge contract. Big wages should only be for absolute elite talent.

 

[Diehard Saint]

We are in a good position if we are looking down the barrel of good young talent at our club.

But club needs to stagger players coming out of contract, an issue is that they all come out of contract at the same time.

The King deal was a very strange one at the end of last year, but hey at least we don't have to worry about that contract lapsing ever.

Got to trust that hopefully they know what they are doing.
We don't really know all the ins and outs of our salary cap and every player contract.

 

[saintbill]

I have no idea what's going on in the background but i do know one thing , Nas is going to be one of the best players in the league if he already isn't ( yeah i know ground breaking news) but you just cant go completely mental and offer him crazy money just because we want to keep him.
I don't recall clubs like Geelong and Brisbane back in the day when they were always in grand finals paying crazy amounts to one player , they all stuck together and took less to win flags , its called a team not an individual.
We have a lot of good young kids coming through who in a year or so who could be demanding big money for their next contract and how's it going to work out if we cant keep them because Nass and his manager has bled us dry.
Players i see taking massive steps are Garcia, Hastie , Box , Hall, Tauru, Keeler when he gets his sh1t together, Dodson plus the general improvement of blokes like Windy , Hammer , Sharman , Tobie, Windy, Wilson and if the giraffe cand get on the park (although Max has already taken a fair bite of the pie)
We need to offer Nas a fair deal and if he wants to stay with us he does, if he wants to go home so be it , you cant just keep throwing cash at him , sooner or later you need to say we have been more than fair and if we want to keep this list together this is all we can afford to pay you.
Who knows in Two years time Tauru maybe the hottest ticket in town demanding more than Nas and we say sorry but we spent all our cash on Nas
All this wine and dine bullsh1t to show we love him Bla Bla Bla ( as if he doesn't know that ) its time for him to decide and stop playing poker.
We all hope he stays but not at the detriment of loosing several others in two years time IMO

Thats all reasonable, but the optics of paying TDK 1.7m are what make us look foolish. I understand you have to pay out of contract players more, but $600k+ more? For somebody not that good, who also doesn't fill a huge need.

It's stupid. Now everybody wants to stick there hand out and get overs, because we are putting forth a deal that is 60% above market rate.

I will wait until I see where the chips fall before I go full melt. Maybe the club has it all under control. Mabye....

 

[stavro#4]

If he continues on this trajectory, does it matter if we continue to pay him a minimum of $2m PA? He’d be worth every cent.

Because if he is our only good player. We still aren’t going anywhere which means we won’t be keeping him.

You need to use that money to bring other good players in. Unfortunately it shows that current state of play is that we need to overpay players to come to our club.

 

[thekizzler]

Starting to look to me like we will lose NAS and TDK doesn't come. The pressure on TDK if NAS walks and it is reported that Port were willing to pay more will be too much bare, if he walks in the door on a mega contract.

A client of mine has had good mail before. Third hand info so take it for what it is, but one of his clients is a player manager. Has given good info before. Anyway, according to hime TDK is now open to a move to the Cats and they are in discussions.

Personally, don't care either way. His form is seriously worrying. Yeah, maybe he is checked out to a degree but is that the kind of attitude you want from a dude you are paying 1.7m? He doesn't move the needle much.

Also, TDK looks like a Geelong player. Needs a haircut. Pass for me.

Nice bit of satire to lighten up the mood

 

[From 45]

Because if he is our only good player. We still aren’t going anywhere which means we won’t be keeping him.

You need to use that money to bring other good players in. Unfortunately it shows that current state of play is that we need to overpay players to come to our club.

But everyone is saying we have money to burn and need to use it now otherwise we risk losing the war chest we’ve built.

The overpaying of players is public knowledge for all struggling clubs trying to entice players to their club so it an irrelevant point.

 

[gringo2011]

Okay everyone, let’s all take less and commit to the long term - we want to build a premiership side.

Except nas, he gets more and stays for less.

Deal!

So what do you propose? Losing him now instead of in 2 years? What's the compensation that we get that makes us more competitive than if he stays?

 

[aidansbonor]

The problem is we are trying to find middle ground but NWM's form just keeps giving Williams leverage to demand even more, meaning we continually have to stump up more money

At this point its not even worth trying to meet his demands until NWM's form plateaus. Once it does, then we negotiate

Why not just offer more and get it done now if this the case?

Can't say that would be poor money managing by sos when we throw 1.7 at tdk, flexing our warchest

Due to the game on the weekend you'd think he would be the most tempted to sign on compared to a weeks time if we have an uninspiring win vs north or even worse, lose to them or Richmond.

I'd get it done now and if that means it's not middle ground and swaying towards nwm/williams money wise then so be it, we have our best talent in 15 years locked away and gets rid of the chance of him changing his mind. all imo

 

[stavro#4]

But everyone is saying we have money to burn and need to use it now otherwise we risk losing the war chest we’ve built.

The overpaying of players is public knowledge for all struggling clubs trying to entice players to their club so it an irrelevant point.

Building your cap up to use your 105% is to acquire new talent - which in our case means paying overs.

The purpose isn’t just to throw everything at Nas. It defeats the purpose about getting better.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Its not lost on anyone Stav, we just realise the motivations and outcomes are different, a fact you refuse to acknowledge.

Answer me this. We sign him for 2 years and 2m and in 2 years he walks anyway.

How is that possibly any worse than losing him now?

I agree with this, but devils advocate...

we give him $2 mill for 2 years...and he decides to stay.
Absolutely brilliant BUT he'll want an increase (or his manager will) and what does that do for our salary cap and players like Pou, Hall, Windy, Owens etc who will be demanding more at the end of their 2027 contracts?
(OK Pou's is apparently longer, but you get my drift)

Where do we find the money to keep them too?

 

[phantom13]

I agree with this, but devils advocate...

we give him $2 mill for 2 years...and he decides to stay.
Absolutely brilliant BUT he'll want an increase (or his manager will) and what does that do for our salary cap and players like Pou, Hall, Windy, Owens etc who will be demanding more at the end of their 2027 contracts?
(OK Pou's is apparently longer, but you get my drift)

Where do we find the money to keep them too?

Respectfully, ive answered this question a few times.

In any event id rather have that problem to solve than just let him walk now.

 

[phantom13]

If I have to stop myself from retaliating and deleting what I wrote. That’s not me having a glass of jaw.

That’s me saying you are crossing the line and I’m not far behind.

By all means. Go the ball.

I reckon you need to take this place way, way less seriously.

If a joke about you and SOS riles you up THAT much, you need to re asses priorities.

Anyway, ill leave you be.

 

[gringo2011]

The only "why" for Gerard Healy's call was because he had never watched an ounce of footage of either prospect

One of the all-time uninformed calls I've ever witnessed

It seemed pretty reasonable at the time. It definitely had some logic. I never saw Nas becoming the star that he has and I thought guys like Sinn, Chesser and Hobbs all looked like they were really high level players. Hindsight makes calls like this seem moronic but it wasn't stupid at the time. He was a known flight risk so Toce had huge nads to take him.

 

[gringo2011]

Because if he is our only good player. We still aren’t going anywhere which means we won’t be keeping him.

You need to use that money to bring other good players in. Unfortunately it shows that current state of play is that we need to overpay players to come to our club.

We are literally using that money to bring in B graders who might still have potential.