List Mgmt. 2025 List Management II 📃

[Aphrodite]

 

[Crippa#9]

People might laugh at my suggestion but Kane Farrel would transform our transition.

Not a silly call at all. Not sure about transforming our midfield but given our lack of conversion when we get ball forward of centre (due to bad ball use) he'd be one that you would be trying to get the ball in his hands for inside 50 entries...

He'd be by far our best kick.

Unfortunately he signed a five year contract in March this year. He would appear to be an extremely important player for Josh Carr's new reign.

 

[JustaBattler]

Collingwood, Adelaide & Gold Coast both missed finals last year.. it can turn quickly with some shrewd well-planned acquisitions and growth from the playing list. Its not doom and gloom, we fix our run and carry issues, and I am confident we have the body of a list that can bounce back quickly and contend next year.

I don't wallow in doom and gloom because I don't buy into hope and faith - the view I posted above is my opinion about how things work and what things look like for Carlton in the next couple of years.

Most management are happy to be middling and success is making finals YoY and given some luck have a shot at a flag.

Actually being dominant means week in week out ability to win against anyone anywhere - even with key outs - this type of window rarely lasts for more than a couple of years- because of the typical age profile of a list.

Carlton is a fair way away from that based on my assessment of the list and its sustainable capabilities.

tbh a year where Carlton smashes Collingwood/Essendon and Richmond convincingly is my definition of success - winnign a flag is pretty much now nigh on impossible for teams liek Carlton who play at Marvel and teh MCG and have travel a lot.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Correct, all coaches have favourites, but you destroy your teams culture and standards in the way Voss did it.

Allowing a senior player to continue to play when they are in poor form (McGov) and dropping the same blokes every other week ( Kemp, JSOS, Young) sends out 2 very different messages to the playing group and doesn't assist the player who is in poor form.

Agree with this, this season Doch, Acres, Saad & Gov should have been dropped well before they did and would have stamped a level of authority and expectation that torching the ball as badly as they did wouldn't be tolerated.

 

[Gavstar]

I'm very concerned that once again we are getting to the end of the cycle of elite players and aren't going to get it done eg Gibbs, Murphy Kruezer (Judd) era repeats as Cripps, Charlie, Harry, Weitering age out.

We don't have a single player in the top 22 of the under 22 and I doubt we would have in the U25 this year with Walsh our only entry the previous year.

I don't think our draw can get easier than this year given our likely ladder position at the end of the season.

 

[The Return of the Paf]

Reckon our salary cap would have a nice Zak Butters hole in it come 26

Why do we obsess so much over that one player coming into the club to make virtually all of the difference? Sometimes it's our first draft pick and others times it's a potential trade. Everything else is a crapshoot or us scraping together the final spots on our list as a kind of necessary afterthought. The attitude of drip-feeding our list (no matter how big the 'drip') while other players age or drop away has to change. The best analogy is like poring hot water into a cold bath, it doesn't take long for it to get cold again.

 

[Red Bull]

Nobody’s going anywhere

We love all the boys !!

 

[TheThunderboltKid]

I'm very concerned that once again we are getting to the end of the cycle of elite players and aren't going to get it done eg Gibbs, Murphy Kruezer (Judd) era repeats as Cripps, Charlie, Harry, Weitering age out.

We don't have a single player in the top 22 of the under 22 and I doubt we would have in the U25 this year with Walsh our only entry the previous year.

I don't think our draw can get easier than this year given our likely ladder position at the end of the season.

Reckon next year we could have Jagga and Moir in there and HOF would be too if fit. Year after add Walker and Dean.

 

[Jatz]

Reckon next year we could have Jagga and Moir in there and HOF would be too if fit. Year after add Walker and Dean.

Assuming we're still able to land Walker.

 

[DangerousD]

There were some interesting comments by Voss yesterday, stated that we will be going after speed and quality ball use in the off season, which seems tricky as Dean and Ison as far as i know, dont address the speed component.

I dont know how well we can address these areas by losing players like Silvagni and Acres, both get us points for the draft but for a team already lacking depth, we would need to add 3-4 senior players to be ahead of where we currently sit.

 

[DangerousD]

If we want to Match the de dekoning bid to force a trade, do we have to prove we have the salary cap room. Just wondering in relation to McGovern situation.

Why would he leave if we matched?

 

[Coona Blues]

Reckon our salary cap would have a nice Zak Butters hole in it come 26

If Walsh can stay in the condition he returned in, we are a long way to not needing to recruit mature mids. Jagga Smith, (touch wood)Cody Walker, Cooper Lord and the as yet unheralded Ben Camporeale teamed with Adam Cerra and the ageing bulls Cripps and Hewett isn’t a bad line up.

If Kemp, O’Keeffe and Moir come on up forward and O’Farrell and Dean live up to their promise we will not have pressing need to target high profile keys. A gun mid like Butters or Rowell could be an option, thinking Rowell may fit with the group better than Butters as zi expect Jagga to be quite Butters like. Needs may lend themselves to a half back or small forward gun at that time too, or even a ruck.

 

[Jimmae]

How does 'forcing a trade' work? You match an offer with the understanding that 'said' player is not going to sign it?

As an RFA, we have the right to match the accepted offer.

If the media is just blowing smoke to help St Kilda and it's front loaded maxing out at $1.8m, we can call their bluff, or force a trade that will be a hell of a lot better than pick 7-9.

We can clean them out.

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There were some interesting comments by Voss yesterday, stated that we will be going after speed and quality ball use in the off season, which seems tricky as Dean and Ison as far as i know, dont address the speed component.

I dont know how well we can address these areas by losing players like Silvagni and Acres, both get us points for the draft but for a team already lacking depth, we would need to add 3-4 senior players to be ahead of where we currently sit.

Both are quick, Ison has skills but needs work on reading where to pass.

Acres isn't gone yet, and we'd be getting another winger in if he does go. Jack is a wait and see issue.

 

[BluesByNature]

Look like we will turn over 8 -9 players at end of season. We will be losing lots of experience too. JSOS, TDK, Gov. that’s a rebuild in my book. Don’t expect a rise up the ladder any time soon

We finish top 4 next year....bookmark this

 

[Blue Pulse]

I think it's a really tough line for most coaches to walk - when do you pull the trigger on a proven player because of "form", and how long do you afford them in the seniors to try and recapture their form.

I think it was exacerbated for us as well because there were so many players out of form - what was Voss gonna do, drop Weiters, Gov and Haynes after R1? Drop Cripps and Cerra at the same time? Play with only 3 forwards?

This isn't just about this season, it was a precedent he should have brought in on day 1

Last season he dropped Hewitt and Kennedy was made a sub for a couple of games, (they were the least of our problems), to bring in Cerra and Cotters, both from long term injuries on no game time through the VFL when we were travelling well?

How does that make sense? I could understand if they killed it in the VFL, as it was, I think it took Cotters 3 games to get his possessions into double figures.

 

[BlueTongue]

There were some interesting comments by Voss yesterday, stated that we will be going after speed and quality ball use in the off season, which seems tricky as Dean and Ison as far as i know, dont address the speed component.

I dont know how well we can address these areas by losing players like Silvagni and Acres, both get us points for the draft but for a team already lacking depth, we would need to add 3-4 senior players to be ahead of where we currently sit.

I'm not buying into the whole 'going after speed' idea. Sure we need a couple of players with better disposal but our problem is more with hitting targets than Speed. By the time we actually recruit & develop the whole run & gun fad will have passed and it will be whatever has evolved to combat it.

I think our contested brand is pretty good and holds up - provided we can hit targets, and get our forward line functional, with Players finding space and elite kick to honor them.

 

[Ninja Worrier]

We finish top 4 next year....bookmark this

Are we getting Reid or Butters?

 

[BluesByNature]

Are we getting Reid or Butters?

No, few tweaks. That's all we need. People forget that for most of this season we were top 4 in most stats except a couple here and there. Just wait and see

 

[TheThunderboltKid]

No, few tweaks. That's all we need. People forget that for most of this season we were top 4 in most stats except a couple here and there. Just wait and see

Almost top four for the losses stat as well

 

[BluesByNature]

Almost top four for the losses stat as well

Sorry, I'm a carlton supporter. I prefer to look at the not so obvious wins we had and be positive. I think we will be top 4. Just some tweaks needed. Obviously GW and others who have a better view of it all agree with me or they would have launched Vossy

 

[Blue and Silver]

Based on some recent commentary from Senior players. I think we will be saying good bye to established guys whose dedication is questionable.

Walsh, Cripps and Weitering have all alluded to some people not wanting to be at Carlton, not digging in when the going gets tough etc.

On that basis, we may be in the market for more mature role players to fill these gaps.

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

I'm very concerned that once again we are getting to the end of the cycle of elite players and aren't going to get it done eg Gibbs, Murphy Kruezer (Judd) era repeats as Cripps, Charlie, Harry, Weitering age out.

We don't have a single player in the top 22 of the under 22 and I doubt we would have in the U25 this year with Walsh our only entry the previous year.

I don't think our draw can get easier than this year given our likely ladder position at the end of the season.

I agree with your point, however it's important to note that I think there's a few players on our list who could be as good if not better than a lot of those named, they just haven't been given the opportunity/role due to us for most of the year trying to contend for finals. Cowan, Lord and HOF have all shown that they have elite attributes and will be a core of our side for years to come. And you also can't forget that arguably our most promising player hasn't even played a single AFL level game.

We do either need to hope that this year was a blip, and with some reshuffling and some youth coming in we can get back to where we were 2023, or decide that the list isn't good enough and do a full rebuild/retool/whatever you want to call it and bring in youth and then bloody play them. I'd say we're more likely to do the former but I trust whatever Wrighty has planned.

 

[bmaurizio]

Don't think we be close to top 4 next year, it will be tough until we sort out our playing list and head coach.
Voss won't continue beyond season 2026 and best 23 playing list needs to be refreshed, total salary expenditure better manged too.
There's plenty of work for Graham Wright going forward, adjusting and synchronizing all necessary changes.

 

[Uncle Fester]

is McGovern gone - or just not going to be on the same contractual term which would have been triggered by playing tonight?

 

[Ambrosia]

If Dylan Shiel is prepared to play for $400k is he worth a 2 year contract?

Is his leverage that he will retire? I can't imagine Shiel will have a bidding war for his services to get that second year.

That being said I think he'll be an excellent signing to whoever gets him. Man can still play and hasn't lost a step.

 

[The Return of the Paf]

I'm not buying into the whole 'going after speed' idea. Sure we need a couple of players with better disposal but our problem is more with hitting targets than Speed. By the time we actually recruit & develop the whole run & gun fad will have passed and it will be whatever has evolved to combat it.

I think our contested brand is pretty good and holds up - provided we can hit targets, and get our forward line functional, with Players finding space and elite kick to honor them.

I'm not really buying into any of it.

There only seems to be two strains of thinking around here. 1. Reshape the list with yet more average players who might (just might) happen to have some of the traits we are looking for, while drafting the FS/academy players as a matter of course. 2. Trade in some big name whilst somehow gathering enough points to draft the FS/academy players as a matter of course.

There is not much talk about building a side with multitude strengths or preparing for the future, if we don't somehow manage to rise up the ladder to be contenders in the next three years. There's no such thing as an AFL handicap for the sides who are better than us.