2nd Test Harris or Lyon

[Slax]

With Ryan Harris now fit and the rest of the team almost certain to be the same for the 2nd test the question is do we go with 4 quicks by bringing Ryan Harris into the team or do we stick with Nathan Lyon?

India are far more suspect to pace bowling than they are to spin, Lyon's figures of 1/91 in Melbourne with the 1 being the last wicket of the match shows this. The SCG pitch this season has favoured the quicks far more than spinners with more grass being left on for the start of the match.

I firmly believe that when fit Ryan Harris is the best quick in the country, but you can't drop any of the 3 who played and bowled so well in Melbourne.

I would go for Harris, as Clarke, Warner and Hussey can make up the extra overs of spin if required.

 

[Super Hans]

In Sydney it's 100% Lyon.

 

[Hellgood]

For the WACA, would take Harris. I think Lyon has been given too much hype by our supporters and media after getting out three NZ tailenders who were swinging like a rusty gate. He's probably our best option for the moment so should play in Sydney because we need a spinner to play there due to the conditions, but he looked out of his depth bowling in this last test (which is fair enough since Indians play spin so well) so lets just wait and see how he goes in Sydney.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

I would go for Harris, as Clarke, Warner and Hussey can make up the extra overs of spin if required.

Mate, this is a Test match, not a limited over game. Spinners are expected to bowl, especially on days 4 & 5, not make up the numbers. Clarke's back won't allow him to bowl, Warner lands about 3 in every 6 per over, and Hussey doesn't bowl spin.

 

[Team DJ]

Mate cmon, its the SCG you pick a spinner everyday of the week.
Perth then maybe 4 seamers.
TBH i wouldnt pick Harris in the test team again, you cant 100% bank on him lasting 5 days. These blokes are doing quite well, and theres a few other seam options still floating around as well.

 

[Alexwce]

Harris, playing a spinner in Sydney is pointless


....


A spinner should be picked for every match regardless of location, but at the SCG this isn't even a question but more of a prerequisite.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Are those who are saying you "play a spinner in Sydney" without even thinking about it, aware of how the pitch there has been playing this season? Or are you picking a team for how the pitch has played in years past? Are we playing them in 2012, or 2, 5 or 10 years ago? If it's the latter, do you have a time machine? That would be pretty cool if you do!
The OP has stated (which I'm not here to confirm or deny, as I haven't been following it closely) that the SCG has favoured pace far more than spin this year, and if that's the case it would be irresponsible to not consider it.
Lyon has, as someone said in the thread about whether we ought to have him for Perth, been virtually "surplus to requirements" in the past two tests, on pitches that suited pace far more than spin. He's virtually only been bowled to give the others a rest and has posed pretty much no threat to the top orders of NZ or India in those games. Ideally Clarke would have wanted to bring on pace, on most, if not every occasion he brought Lyon on in those games, as those pitches suited pace so much. Do we want that to be the case again in the next match, if conditions again suit pace? Do we want to just be bowling him purely to give the others a rest, or do we want to be bringing someone on who will keep the pressure on India and be a real chance of getting wickets? Ryan Harris, on the other hand, has been just about the best performed in the game (with the ball) in the past 12 months and would pose all sorts of problems to the Indian top order (if he's fit and in form, which I admit is a big "if"), if there's grass on the pitch. To not consider him, if the pitch has grass on it, would be crazy and could be like handing India a "free kick".
Thankfully, those around the Australian team aren't that closed minded and want to keep the pressure on them and are apparently seriously considering it, according to the paper today:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/c...or-sydney-clarke/story-fn67w6pa-1226232843866

 

[aussierulesrules]

A spinner should be picked for every match regardless of location

I think that statement wins you the award for "most small and closed minded statement" of the day, if not week, or year. Well done.
So, if it was a total greentop, with overcast conditions forecast for every day of a test and you had a top class pace arsenal up your sleeves (say a modern day Marshall, Walsh, Holding and Ambrose) and someone who was only ordinary at bowling spin, you'd still pick him?
Going by your statement you absolutely would, as you've not even left a door open for other alternatives.
WOW.

 

[Alexwce]

I think that statement wins you the award for "most small and closed minded statement" of the day, if not week, or year. Well done.
So, if it was a total greentop, with overcast conditions forecast for every day of a test and you had a top class pace arsenal up your sleeves (say a modern day Marshall, Walsh, Holding and Ambrose) and someone who was only ordinary at bowling spin, you'd still pick him?
Going by your statement you absolutely would, as you've not even left a door open for other alternatives.
WOW.

Obviously there are some circumstances that warrant playing 4 quicks. In the context of this series and any test series played in Australia, provided a spinner such as Nathan Lyon is fit, a spinner should be picked regardless. There isn't any total greentops here anyways, even in Hobart, I'd have picked Lyon.

Was under the impression that anyone "open minded" would have been able to understand what my point was. But for your satisfaction in the future - I'll strive to write repetitive and tiresome paragraphs of hogwash.

 

[Underarm]

I think that statement wins you the award for "most small and closed minded statement" of the day, if not week, or year. Well done.
So, if it was a total greentop, with overcast conditions forecast for every day of a test and you had a top class pace arsenal up your sleeves (say a modern day Marshall, Walsh, Holding and Ambrose) and someone who was only ordinary at bowling spin, you'd still pick him?
Going by your statement you absolutely would, as you've not even left a door open for other alternatives.
WOW.

but that would imply that lyon is a complete spud, and Harris, Patto, Siddle (who people wanted dropped 2 months ago....) and Hilfenhaous are as good as Marshall, Walsh Holding and ambrose - 4 of histories best pace bowlers.

 

[Outshined]

I'd be leaning towards going for 4 quicks, although that didn't really work out too well last time against India.

Seems obvious, but it all depends on how the pitch is going to play. Those living in Sydney will know more, but if it's been a wet spring/summer and the pitch has more grass, you would have to consider it. Especially given how much they struggled against our pace trio in Melbourne. The extended forecast looks like there could be a bit of rain around towards the latter part of the test which will potentially make things interesting.

No disrespect to Lyon though, but as many have said, the Indians could play him and any other off spinner blindfolded on Australian decks.

 

[sherb]

With Ryan Harris now fit and the rest of the team almost certain to be the same for the 2nd test the question is do we go with 4 quicks by bringing Ryan Harris into the team or do we stick with Nathan Lyon?

Is Ryan Harris ever fit?

 

[aussierulesrules]

but that would imply that lyon is a complete spud, and Harris, Patto, Siddle (who people wanted dropped 2 months ago....) and Hilfenhaous are as good as Marshall, Walsh Holding and ambrose - 4 of histories best pace bowlers.

It does not imply that in any way shape or form, but I can see how it could be taken that way by someone who isn't particularly bright, or who isn't really concentrating. Do you see the name "Lyon" in what I quoted from his post, or in my reply? I was simply taking issue with his statement that "A spinner should be picked for every match regardless of location". He didn't say "you should always play Lyon" he said "a spinner" and that opened a door for me to suggest a "spud" v Marshall, etc, because the statement he was making was a general one, not a specific one.
I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to challenge the statement he made. Please correct me if I'm not, I may have confused this place for an internet forum. If you or anyone else took that to mean I was referring to Lyon as ordinary, or a "spud" then that is yours or their mistake. I don't consider him to be that at all, but that doesn't mean I want him in the team ahead of someone like Harris, for this match, if it's going to be another grassy fast bowling paradise.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Is Ryan Harris ever fit?

Probably not, but has that stopped him taking 35 test wickets at the fantastic average of 21, a brilliant strike rate of a wicket every 41 balls, and a very good economy rate?
The injury he's just had was a hip, not his chronic knee, so if he's "fit" again, he could be very well worth picking, but it is clearly a risk. Such is life. It could be a master-stroke picking him, or it could be disastrous. Hopefully they make the right choice.

Personally, I really want to win this test and this series and if Harris is "fit" and it's going to be the grassy seaming wicket that they're predicting (and that led to only 3 of the 30 wickets falling to spin in the same game last year) then I'd much rather we have him in for this game, than someone who bowls off spin, which India are generally very comfortable against. It has nothing to do with Lyon, personally, it's purely a spin v pace thing, as long as Harris is fit.

What has given India's batting line-up the most trouble in recent months (as evidenced by the last match, or their 4-0 loss to England, in England)? Spin? Or quality pace, with movement? The latter. By far, I hear. Combine that with a grassy wicket, which is the ideal conditions for pace with movement and it should be pretty obvious which way we ought to go, if Harris is "fit" and they do provide the grassy wicket they're saying it will be. I mean are we picking a team for this match, or some other match, either in the past, or in the distant future? I hope we pick our best and most dangerous and damaging team (in the conditions we'll be playing in next week, not how they were years ago) for this match. Lets play each ball on its merits and win each game at a time.

For what it's worth, I certainly won't be voting in this poll until we find out A: How "fit" Harris is and then, if he is "fit", B: exactly what the conditions are going to be like, as I left my crystal ball at home and have not seen the pitch.
The pitches there have clearly suited fast bowling recently, though and considering India have batted brilliantly on the "spin friendly" SCG wickets of yore (Tendulkar apparently averages over 200 there!) I hope they make this one nice and grassy, like the most recent ones, as that will surely give us the best chance of winning. Especially if Harris is "fit" and gets the nod.

 

[Icanwalk]

Shit, voted Harris but meant Lyon. Mods, if you can, feel free to change it.

It's the SCG and a test match FFS.

If Lyon bowls 30 overs, takes one wicket and goes at 3 an over, he's done his job for mine. Some people need to understand that the role of a spinner is not simply to take wickets.

Although I do expect a somewhat better display at the SCG.

 

[Underdog]

I don't like the idea of going into any test match without a specialist spinner. And no, I'm not going to argue semantics with my statement - you can find circumstances where any of these selections "rules" aren't really feasible.

IMO, until there is an injury or fairly severe dip in form of one of the 3 quicks, Harris shouldn't be included. We should acknowledge that he cannot be relied upon due to chronic injuries.

Harris isn't the future.

 

[evdo1706]

Don't think Lyon deserves to be dropped. He didn't bowl badly. Also I am not a fan of the idea of playing 4 quicks and no spinner. I would play 4 quicks only if the 4th one is a genuine all rounder like Watto.

 

[Natho]

Lyon for sure. Ryan Harris might struggle to get a gig in that pace lineup at the moment. Why play someone who gets injured after bowling 20 overs. The pace lineup is getting settled and doing the job.

Persist with Lyon he has some potential.