Player Watch #30: Reece Conca

[Heisenberg_]

To be honest though we had blokes stand up in finals last season that never looked likely, so it’s hypothetical nonsense that counts for nothing.
You just take each week as it comes.

Yep to be fair Houli and Edwards were both players with huge question marks over how they perform in big games and were both close to winning the Norm Smith medal.
On Conca I don’t think he’s that great but quite a few I’d be dropping first.

 

[Mr Magic]

Yep to be fair Houli and Edwards were both players with huge question marks over how they perform in big games and were both close to winning the Norm Smith medal.
On Conca I don’t think he’s that great but quite a few I’d be dropping first.

I thought Conca was probably one of our best on the weekend along with JR.

 

[Madison]

Conca averages per game:
18.6 disposals equal 8th at club
5.22 tackles 2nd at club, one of only 3 players to average 5 tackles
8 contested possessions 10th at club
2.44 clearances equal 7th at club, Cotchin and Martin only 2 at club above 4 clearances per game
71.99% disposal efficiency

Of the 9 games he's played this year he has had 20+ 5 times Hawthorn Lions Demons Dockers and North. In 5 of 9 games he has had 6+ tackles Carlton Lions Demons Dockers and North. In 4 of 9 games he has had 3+ clearances Hawks Demons North & Eagles.

So Conca isn't too far off of what you're asking for for him to be having a good season, in fact you could mount an argument that given he has missed so much footy in recent years he is having a better year than many expected heading into the year.

As I said he wasn't the only one who was down yesterday, in fact pretty much everyone bar Jack and Dusty were down yesterday.

So what you’re saying is that by my metrics he’s not having a good season cos he’s not hitting my minimum metrics? 2/5 isnt 5/5. And I was talking about big games, against other finalists, not overall. For him to be considered a valuable contributor as an inside mid, then in those games he should be hitting those stats. Not against Brisbane and the like.

Only against North and Melbourne has he hit (some of) the stats I mentioned and that’s only when you dropped it to 3 clearances. 0/9 games and he hasn’t even hit the metrics that I actually laid out. Just the ones you cherry picked out and then reduced the number I stipulated.

And as always, stats don’t paint the whole picture. You can actually watch a game too.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

I thought Conca was probably one of our best on the weekend along with JR.

Mr Magic a breath of fresh air and sensibility with your observation in regards to Conca...

 

[_RT_]

So what you’re saying is that by my metrics he’s not having a good season cos he’s not hitting my minimum metrics? 2/5 isnt 5/5. And I was talking about big games, against other finalists, not overall. For him to be considered a valuable contributor as an inside mid, then in those games he should be hitting those stats. Not against Brisbane and the like.

Only against North and Melbourne has he hit (some of) the stats I mentioned and that’s only when you dropped it to 3 clearances. 0/9 games and he hasn’t even hit the metrics that I actually laid out. Just the ones you cherry picked out and then reduced the number I stipulated.

And as always, stats don’t paint the whole picture. You can actually watch a game too.

There are only 2 players at Richmond close to 20/5/5/10 and that is Cotchin who averages 24/5/4.9/13 & Dusty who averages 24.2/2/5.6/11. Based on your minimum metrics for Conca you're bascially wanting him playing at the level of 2 Brownlow medal winners to be considered any good. When I showed that for the season as a whole, he is not that far off achieving those levels you pretty much dismiss it as being meaningless. Could it be that it actually showed Conca is performing better than what is perceived, sometimes you need to delve a little bit deeper to see the full picture of how a player is performing.

Right now for mine Conca is the least of our concerns. There are some premiership players who are getting by on being premiership players and not actually producing at the level they should be, but none are really getting any pressure heaped on them, although Butler is starting to draw some heat.

 

[Grrr]

Let us know how he went after you've watched the last Q....

Played back in the last but the game was over so nothing much there. Interesting that he went to HB though, out of the middle, might be saying something. Odd as his 3rd Q was very good. We were beaten comprehensively all over the ground.

 

[Madison]

There are only 2 players at Richmond close to 20/5/5/10 and that is Cotchin who averages 24/5/4.9/13 & Dusty who averages 24.2/2/5.6/11. Based on your minimum metrics for Conca you're bascially wanting him playing at the level of 2 Brownlow medal winners to be considered any good. When I showed that for the season as a whole, he is not that far off achieving those levels you pretty much dismiss it as being meaningless. Could it be that it actually showed Conca is performing better than what is perceived, sometimes you need to delve a little bit deeper to see the full picture of how a player is performing.

Right now for mine Conca is the least of our concerns. There are some premiership players who are getting by on being premiership players and not actually producing at the level they should be, but none are really getting any pressure heaped on them, although Butler is starting to draw some heat.

I dismissed it cos my issue isn’t with Conca on a week to week basis, but what his output will be in finals. I don’t mind Conca as a player, but to me he is depth. He’ll be decent during the season, he’ll have some good games, mostly against poor opposition (Freo, Brisbane and Carlton) and have the occasional good game against a good team (North) but mostly he’s shown me, to my eyes, to not be a player who’s going to take us forward in finals.

His role in the team is inside mid. So those are the sorts of stats he should be getting and he hasn’t hit them. Without looking at the stats myself I’m gonna guess that Lambert, Prestia and your favourite, Miles, have all hit them several times. If I had the energy I’d bet Prestia hit them a lot in the second half of last year, Miles hit them regularly when he’s actually been played and Lambert probably less so but he’s more outside and kicks far more goals, so contributes to the team in other ways.

And if you want other players dropped that’s fine, it’s not mutually exclusive. I’d be giving McIntosh a spell for Menadue, Butler a spell for Stengel, Conca for Miles. That’s just off the top of my head based on the last few weeks.

 

[Grrr]

I dismissed it cos my issue isn’t with Conca on a week to week basis, but what his output will be in finals. I don’t mind Conca as a player, but to me he is depth. He’ll be decent during the season, he’ll have some good games, mostly against poor opposition (Freo, Brisbane and Carlton) and have the occasional good game against a good team (North) but mostly he’s shown me, to my eyes, to not be a player who’s going to take us forward in finals.

His role in the team is inside mid. So those are the sorts of stats he should be getting and he hasn’t hit them. Without looking at the stats myself I’m gonna guess that Lambert, Prestia and your favourite, Miles, have all hit them several times. If I had the energy I’d bet Prestia hit them a lot in the second half of last year, Miles hit them regularly when he’s actually been played and Lambert probably less so but he’s more outside and kicks far more goals, so contributes to the team in other ways.

And if you want other players dropped that’s fine, it’s not mutually exclusive. I’d be giving McIntosh a spell for Menadue, Butler a spell for Stengel, Conca for Miles. That’s just off the top of my head based on the last few weeks.

Thing about Conca is he is not playing full time mid. He is being moved all over the place during games, so stats don't mean that much when you compare him to Prestia (or Miles if he was playing) as they pretty much only play inside mid. Apart from his third Q, where he did play mid for much of it in the middle, thought he was average against WC, but that third Q was also when they took over.
I guess we will have to wait and see how he goes as the season progresses, he will have to get better I think to stay in the side permanently as his form at the moment I don't think will get him dropped, but will have to improve to be confident of him come finals.
We need a good 4Q win where he has a really good game to really hit some form (the whole side could do with one after the weekend) as I think he has a real upside. We will see.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Conca is the least of our problems as the loss to the e-gurls showed...
we got exposed up forward and for marking options against a taller side on a smaller ground...
we need to be aware of that and smarter at team selections...horses for courses...wtf is wrong with our quality depth...?!?!?

 

[Madison]

Thing about Conca is he is not playing full time mid. He is being moved all over the place during games, so stats don't mean that much when you compare him to Prestia (or Miles if he was playing) as they pretty much only play inside mid. Apart from his third Q, where he did play mid for much of it in the middle, thought he was average against WC, but that third Q was also when they took over.
I guess we will have to wait and see how he goes as the season progresses, he will have to get better I think to stay in the side permanently as his form at the moment I don't think will get him dropped, but will have to improve to be confident of him come finals.
We need a good 4Q win where he has a really good game to really hit some form (the whole side could do with one after the weekend) as I think he has a real upside. We will see.

Fair point and I pretty much agree, I’m just having to argue against points I’m not actually trying to make most of the time haha.

The only thing I’d say is that he’s never done anything as a forward and he’s not much of a defender, so it’s no good having versatility if your rubbish at the other positions. He needs to be a full time mid and impact the game from the midfield.

It is nice that he can go back there is needed, but when Houli, Short, Vlaustin, mcintosh are all in the team already, surely that’s enough coverage for rotations.

 

[Goldust]

Fair point and I pretty much agree, I’m just having to argue against points I’m not actually trying to make most of the time haha.

The only thing I’d say is that he’s never done anything as a forward and he’s not much of a defender, so it’s no good having versatility if your rubbish at the other positions. He needs to be a full time mid and impact the game from the midfield.

It is nice that he can go back there is needed, but when Houli, Short, Vlaustin, mcintosh are all in the team already, surely that’s enough coverage for rotations.

Can't help but see the irony here between Conca and CEllis, whose versatility is much lauded in these here parts.
But I am comforted by your words ... 't’s no good having versatility if your rubbish at the other positions'. That's CEllis to a tee.
But a bit tough on Reece. I reckon one of his best games was as a forward v the Hawks a few seasons ago.

 

[Grrr]

Fair point and I pretty much agree, I’m just having to argue against points I’m not actually trying to make most of the time haha.

The only thing I’d say is that he’s never done anything as a forward and he’s not much of a defender, so it’s no good having versatility if your rubbish at the other positions. He needs to be a full time mid and impact the game from the midfield.

It is nice that he can go back there is needed, but when Houli, Short, Vlaustin, mcintosh are all in the team already, surely that’s enough coverage for rotations.

Agreed. I pretty much see his as an inside mid, although I think he could play wing. He played okay in resting HF in the third when he was on. Kicked a goal and set up at another couple. Do not need as a HB agreed, although at least he played there better than his last stint at HB!!
Don't think getting thrown around helps with your game.

 

[KiwiTiger]

I dismissed it cos my issue isn’t with Conca on a week to week basis, but what his output will be in finals. I don’t mind Conca as a player, but to me he is depth. He’ll be decent during the season, he’ll have some good games, mostly against poor opposition (Freo, Brisbane and Carlton) and have the occasional good game against a good team (North) but mostly he’s shown me, to my eyes, to not be a player who’s going to take us forward in finals.

His role in the team is inside mid. So those are the sorts of stats he should be getting and he hasn’t hit them. Without looking at the stats myself I’m gonna guess that Lambert, Prestia and your favourite, Miles, have all hit them several times. If I had the energy I’d bet Prestia hit them a lot in the second half of last year, Miles hit them regularly when he’s actually been played and Lambert probably less so but he’s more outside and kicks far more goals, so contributes to the team in other ways.

And if you want other players dropped that’s fine, it’s not mutually exclusive. I’d be giving McIntosh a spell for Menadue, Butler a spell for Stengel, Conca for Miles. That’s just off the top of my head based on the last few weeks.

Be keen to know how you would have judged Jacob Townsend this time last year and whether he would take us forward in finals.

At the end of the day, we don't know the roles and structures we play, Reece's role in same and his performance criteria and assessment against same.

We have to trust the Football Department.

Haere Ra

 

[Hank Heavenly]

* me...
Every player has to be Dusty or Cotch or they are a dud and won't make...
By the critiquing in here and other threads, posters have either played 300 afl/vfl games
or coached 10 consecutive premierships

Conca won't be a superstar, I don't think anyone is arguing that.
But what he is currently providing is a player playing the role they are asked too, and doing it in a manner that supports our supposed stars
On Sunday neither Cotch or Dusty had massive days (not through lack of trying I might add), and so automatically that's Conca's fault he can't cover the diminished output of two Brownlow medalists???

And then cheap shots at other players, being dragged into a conversation about Conca, with ZERO relevance to the existing conversation, purely to take a cheap shot at the other player, it's just pathetic...

 

[Madison]

Can't help but see the irony here between Conca and CEllis, whose versatility is much lauded in these here parts.
But I am comforted by your words ... 't’s no good having versatility if your rubbish at the other positions'. That's CEllis to a tee.
But a bit tough on Reece. I reckon one of his best games was as a forward v the Hawks a few seasons ago.

I don’t remember that game but I’m happy to concede it. It could be due to being so long since he’s played regular footy but I can’t remember him putting together much form as a forward. But happy to concede if other people remember differently.

 

[Madison]

Be keen to know how you would have judged Jacob Townsend this time last year and whether he would take us forward in finals.

Well given he wasn’t in the team I had nothing to judge him on. But given his vfl I would have wanted him played so we could see. Then given the two or three games we did see I was happy for him to be in the team. I don’t really see how it’s relefant cos I have a body of work with which to judge Conca this season. And do you really think Townsend should be judged as the rule and not the exception?

We have to trust the Football Department.

Haere Ra

With all due respect, I absolutely hate this line. It’s such a bullshit throwaway line. Unless you legit just want the forum to become a message board of people praising every single thing the club does? People see the game differently to each other and different opinions, it’d be pretty boring if we didn’t discuss anything cos we all just had blind faith in the footy department (cos footy departmentsnever make mistakes after all).

 

[_RT_]

I dismissed it cos my issue isn’t with Conca on a week to week basis, but what his output will be in finals. I don’t mind Conca as a player, but to me he is depth. He’ll be decent during the season, he’ll have some good games, mostly against poor opposition (Freo, Brisbane and Carlton) and have the occasional good game against a good team (North) but mostly he’s shown me, to my eyes, to not be a player who’s going to take us forward in finals.

His role in the team is inside mid. So those are the sorts of stats he should be getting and he hasn’t hit them. Without looking at the stats myself I’m gonna guess that Lambert, Prestia and your favourite, Miles, have all hit them several times. If I had the energy I’d bet Prestia hit them a lot in the second half of last year, Miles hit them regularly when he’s actually been played and Lambert probably less so but he’s more outside and kicks far more goals, so contributes to the team in other ways.

And if you want other players dropped that’s fine, it’s not mutually exclusive. I’d be giving McIntosh a spell for Menadue, Butler a spell for Stengel, Conca for Miles. That’s just off the top of my head based on the last few weeks.

I don't get it, you say that Conca is depth, which we all agree on, but then say that you want him to have games where he is performing at the same level as what Cotchin & Martin do. You even concede that his games will be up and down throughout the year. What we need with Conca is for him to play his role each week. For the most part this season he has done that. Yes he was quiet on Sunday but then again who wasn't. Dusty was the only player with 20+ disposals, when we'd usually have up to half a dozen.

The stats I put up showing his seasons averages were meant to show that overall he is pretty close to those numbers that you're wanting as a minimum, the thing is with some games he'll get more of the ball and other games he'll do more of the defensive work. As I've said to me Conca is the least of our worries moving forward. As stated Conca is a depth midfielder who can also rotate through the flanks and the wing when needed. He isn't going to be an AA contender or feature high up in the B&F, but we don't need him to be, don't get me wrong it would be great if he was as it would make the midfield even better. With 14 weeks until finals begin there is plenty of time for Conca to improve to a more consistent level.

 

[Madison]

I don't get it, you say that Conca is depth, which we all agree on, but then say that you want him to have games where he is performing at the same level as what Cotchin & Martin do. You even concede that his games will be up and down throughout the year. What we need with Conca is for him to play his role each week. For the most part this season he has done that. Yes he was quiet on Sunday but then again who wasn't. Dusty was the only player with 20+ disposals, when we'd usually have up to half a dozen.

The stats I put up showing his seasons averages were meant to show that overall he is pretty close to those numbers that you're wanting as a minimum, the thing is with some games he'll get more of the ball and other games he'll do more of the defensive work. As I've said to me Conca is the least of our worries moving forward. As stated Conca is a depth midfielder who can also rotate through the flanks and the wing when needed. He isn't going to be an AA contender or feature high up in the B&F, but we don't need him to be, don't get me wrong it would be great if he was as it would make the midfield even better. With 14 weeks until finals begin there is plenty of time for Conca to improve to a more consistent level.

You’ve been advocating pretty strongly that he’s best 22, a few pages back you tried to tell me his decision making and disposal were as good as Martin and Cotchin cos they had the same DE%. Do you know what depth is? Depth is a player you bring when others are injured, not a guy who’s best 22.

My only contention is this and it’s what I’ve been saying all along, I am not looking at H&A, I am looking at who will take us deep into finals, and I have doubts as to whether Conca can help or hurt that prospect. To this point in the season, he has done very little to alleviate those concerns. I don’t care if he plays well in big wins or against lower placed teams, I care how he plays in high intensity, pressure packed games against other top teams as it’s our best indicator of how he will go in finals.

I’m not potting the bloke for the fun of it or even putting a line through him, but imo he needs to do more in the big games or else he should make way for someone who will step up in finals.

 

[_RT_]

You’ve been advocating pretty strongly that he’s best 22, a few pages back you tried to tell me his decision making and disposal were as good as Martin and Cotchin cos they had the same DE%. Do you know what depth is? Depth is a player you bring when others are injured, not a guy who’s best 22.

My only contention is this and it’s what I’ve been saying all along, I am not looking at H&A, I am looking at who will take us deep into finals, and I have doubts as to whether Conca can help or hurt that prospect. To this point in the season, he has done very little to alleviate those concerns. I don’t care if he plays well in big wins or against lower placed teams, I care how he plays in high intensity, pressure packed games against other top teams as it’s our best indicator of how he will go in finals.

I’m not potting the bloke for the fun of it or even putting a line through him, but imo he needs to do more in the big games or else he should make way for someone who will step up in finals.

Conca is best 22 but he isn't in our best 5 midfielders, therefore is a depth midfielder, a player who rotates through when others need a break. As others mentioned, nobody thought Edwards & Houli would be capable of stepping up in big finals games and they both did, so much so that either would have been a worthy winner of the Norm Smith. So I understand what you're saying about Conca and whether he can step up and I look back to Concas form in 2012-2014 before the injuries hit and believe that he can. The only way we'll get a definitive answer is to wait 14 weeks and find out.

 

[KiwiTiger]

Well given he wasn’t in the team I had nothing to judge him on. But given his vfl I would have wanted him played so we could see. Then given the two or three games we did see I was happy for him to be in the team. I don’t really see how it’s relefant cos I have a body of work with which to judge Conca this season. And do you really think Townsend should be judged as the rule and not the exception?



With all due respect, I absolutely hate this line. It’s such a bullshit throwaway line. Unless you legit just want the forum to become a message board of people praising every single thing the club does? People see the game differently to each other and different opinions, it’d be pretty boring if we didn’t discuss anything cos we all just had blind faith in the footy department (cos footy departmentsnever make mistakes after all).

Sure. But everyone here is really working on hypothesis. The Footy Department hold the knowledge stick.

No disrespect. I suppose I'm too close to things.

Haere Ra

 

[This Is Anfield]

Sure. But everyone here is really working on hypothesis. The Footy Department hold the knowledge stick.

No disrespect. I suppose I'm too close to things.

Haere Ra

Footy dept may be also too close to things.

 

[shaky]

Yep to be fair Houli and Edwards were both players with huge question marks over how they perform in big games and were both close to winning the Norm Smith medal.
On Conca I don’t think he’s that great but quite a few I’d be dropping first.

I would also say the difference in that comparison is that Edwards and Houli have shown over a long journey they can be game breakers, just that they hadn't done it in finals.
Reece doesn't seem to have the same gap between his high and low performances. this isn't always a bad thing with a player as you know what your going to get game in game out. The question is, is that consistent level high enough?
I would say he is border line. There a younger players ready to push him out, they probably just have that question mark on their consistency.

 

[Maylandsman]

reece is low level flying. snagged another sausage roll, lookout conca is up and about.
was good to see him and the other players go on a picnic to hanging rock at half time.

 

[tropicaltiger]

Reckon Concs will be a bit like Astbury in the 'get a good pre season into him and then a good dozen or so games on the trot' type of tiger

Rarely in your best 3 or 4, but because his assignment will be different each week just keep him fit, wind him up and he'll get the job done and let the cream rise to the top, integral part of our best 22. poor bloke has made about 6 blunders all year and a few on here want him out the side.

 

[tunksy]

Conca is doing just fine this year. Atm IS best 22.