4 axed for 3rd test

[Kane McGoodwin]

Arguably?

There are lots of problems, so it is arguable as to who is the biggest

He is defintely one of them!

 

[Scotland]

Correct. Bailey should be in the side now. Not only did his form warrant being picked ahead of most of the all-rounders, his leadership would be invaluable to Clarke, as Bailey is a better leader of men. Would help overcome Clarke's weaknesses - unlike Watson who has no leadership ability & should be immediately stripped of the VC permanently.

People say that T20s are hurting test cricket.

IMO, T20s have changed the way we view ODI cricket. We want big hitters and strike bowlers and the middle overs where batsmen are required to build an innings seem to be glossed over.

The ODI side used to be somewhat of a proving ground for test aspirants. Jamie Cox etc. would plunder runs in the shield, but there was always someone in the ODI side with lesser shield form who was next in line or close to it.

Bailey's shield form is poor, but his ODI form was excellent over Summer and he has captaincy experience with the T20 side.

 

[Xsess]

Again, you are focusing on the uniforms.

Do you think it is acceptable for players to miss physio sessions? Do you think it is acceptable for players to be late to training sessions or team meetings? Do you think it is acceptable for players to hold up the team bus because they have slept in?

This is hardly the behaviour of elite sportsmen. And it's not exactly micro management to expect players to do some pretty basic tasks. Things like turning up to training sessions is fundamentally a part of their job. I find it particularly extraordinary in the case of a guy like Khawaja who is on the fringe of the team, and already struggling with a reputation for being lazy. Surely he'd want to make every effort to impress Arthur and Clarke?

At the very least, this whole affair has highlighted how innordinately stupid some of our players are.

Irrespective, the action of ruling out from selection for playing in the Australian test team players who didn't do a trivial homework assignment is arbitrary and ill-considered. It smacks of petty authoritarianism and is much more about saying how important the officials administering the team are, rather than the actual members of the team. After years of doing this rubbish in a corporate world I believe such exercises are a waste of time. If some of the players are smart enough to think it is stupid then more power to them.
I cannot stand a management style that fills people's time with useless activities such as this.

 

[western royboy]

http://www.espncricinfo.com/blogs/content/current/story/624667.html

A couple of quotes that sparked interest.

"This is the second or third hit on a cricketer that Michael Clarke has been involved in." (Symonds, Katich now Watson)

"He likes things done his way and if they are not done his way he will get rid of you"

 

[Suckling2Gunston]

Again, you are focusing on the uniforms.

Do you think it is acceptable for players to miss physio sessions? Do you think it is acceptable for players to be late to training sessions or team meetings? Do you think it is acceptable for players to hold up the team bus because they have slept in?

This is hardly the behaviour of elite sportsmen. And it's not exactly micro management to expect players to do some pretty basic tasks. Things like turning up to training sessions is fundamentally a part of their job. I find it particularly extraordinary in the case of a guy like Khawaja who is on the fringe of the team, and already struggling with a reputation for being lazy. Surely he'd want to make every effort to impress Arthur and Clarke?

At the very least, this whole affair has highlighted how innordinately stupid some of our players are.

Again I find it hard to believe that Khawaja has been lazy lately. Lehmann and the coaching staff at Queensland all praise him for his efforts off-field, and I can't think of a reason why they'd lie about it.

 

[King Elvis]

I kind of get where you were going, but sorry I can't let this go.

By every account I've ever read or heard (including talking with former players and officials) Ponting is regarded as THE most selfless team oriented player of his generation.

Whatever you may have thought of his on field tactics, his teammates would walk over hot coals for him and he for them.

The space left by Ponting will be felt as much in the dressing room as out in the middle, for while his run-making trailed off badly towards the end, his contribution to the team's development as a mentor and example was seldom stronger.

Cowan;

"I think cultures evolve, and the culture of this team has evolved since Michael's taken the captaincy, so it's a question of guys being willing like Ricky was to give of themselves to the team like no other. Put the team first, play to win, and make sure the change rooms are a better place when the next person steps into it. A massive loss off the field, but the identity of this team has been growing since Michael took over the captaincy, and that growth's been pretty evident in the results."

http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-v-sri-lanka-2012/content/story/596630.html

 

[The Speaker]

http://www.espncricinfo.com/blogs/content/current/story/624667.html

A couple of quotes that sparked interest.

"This is the second or third hit on a cricketer that Michael Clarke has been involved in." (Symonds, Katich now Watson)

"He likes things done his way and if they are not done his way he will get rid of you"

And?

 

[Belnakor]

I kind of get where you were going, but sorry I can't let this go.

By every account I've ever read or heard (including talking with former players and officials) Ponting is regarded as THE most selfless team oriented player of his generation.

Whatever you may have thought of his on field tactics, his teammates would walk over hot coals for him and he for them.

People seem to have short memories, Punter's captaincy was first class for 95% of his tenure and only tailed off towards the end when he wasn't making a heap of runs. Clarke isn't as good as Punter, not even close. Look at his record so far, has beaten a bunch of minnows.

Lets not even talk about Punter's ODI captaincy record, where he is undoubtedly the best ODI captain in history.

 

[MC Bad Genius]

Again I find it hard to believe that Khawaja has been lazy lately. Lehmann and the coaching staff at Queensland all praise him for his efforts off-field, and I can't think of a reason why they'd lie about it.

I'm not suggesting a conspiracy or any such thing, but Lehmann probably has a few reasons, especially if he has ambitions for the national coaching spot. He wouldn't want to endanger his relationship with Khawaja in the case that he ends up in the Test team. Plus, it shows that he has good player management skills if he says that Usman has improved his off-field stuff under his tutelage.

 

[western royboy]

And?

If Clarke doesn't like you - your chances of playing for Australia are zero.

 

[the_interloper]

People seem to have short memories, Punter's captaincy was first class for 95% of his tenure and only tailed off towards the end when he wasn't making a heap of runs. Clarke isn't as good as Punter, not even close. Look at his record so far, has beaten a bunch of minnows.

Lets not even talk about Punter's ODI captaincy record, where he is undoubtedly the best ODI captain in history.

Ok I hate Clarke as much as anyone but there's no way Punter was ever a first class on field tactical captain. Great leader of blokes? Yep. Awesome batsman? Yep. Had the respect of his peers and opposition? Yep. Nuts the size of watermelons? Yep. Great tactically with bowling changes, field settings, declaration targets? Not on your nelly.

And you reckon Ponting is the best ever ODI captain? He's not even Australia's best ODI captain, not by a long shot.

 

[Suckling2Gunston]

I'm not suggesting a conspiracy or any such thing, but Lehmann probably has a few reasons, especially if he has ambitions for the national coaching spot. He wouldn't want to endanger his relationship with Khawaja in the case that he ends up in the Test team. Plus, it shows that he has good player management skills if he says that Usman has improved his off-field stuff under his tutelage.

And if he's still just as lazy it shows Lehmann and co. to be full of shit. Hardly a good quality I would have thought.

 

[King Elvis]

I seriously doubt Lehman is scared of putting Khawaja offside.

 

[Xtreme]

Ok I hate Clarke as much as anyone but there's no way Punter was ever a first class on field tactical captain. Great leader of blokes? Yep. Awesome batsman? Yep. Had the respect of his peers and opposition? Yep. Nuts the size of watermelons? Yep. Great tactically with bowling changes, field settings, declaration targets? Not on your nelly.

And you reckon Ponting is the best ever ODI captain? He's not even Australia's best ODI captain, not by a long shot.

I myself would say Waugh is the best ever ODI captain, but i would be shot down as being misinformed. Ponting was great but as with the bold text, his field placings and bowling changes left a lot to be desired. This was apparent when McGrath and Warne retired.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Ponting was Australia's best ever ODI batsman. S Waugh was a far better captain in all forms. Punter didn't have the nouse for a plan B.

 

[the_interloper]

I myself would say Waugh is the best ever ODI captain, but i would be shot down as being misinformed. Ponting was great but as with the bold text, his field placings and bowling changes left a lot to be desired. This was apparent when McGrath and Warne retired.

To be honest I saw Waugh much the same as Punter tactically, but had all the other bases covered like Ponting (except he was a very good batsman rather than all time great imo). Maybe Waugh was probably a bit more adventurous than Ponting, but then again he had the cattle to take more risks.

And yeah it's easy to say someone's a good captain when you have McGrath and Warne there to bowl. They were both stock bowlers and strike bowlers all in one, capable of bowling for as long as required. It's no coincidence we never really bothered with an all rounder when they were around, there was just no need for the extra bowler.

 

[The Speaker]

If Clarke doesn't like you - your chances of playing for Australia are zero.

Oh, I see.

That would explain why Watson was picked as vice-captain. Seeing as Clarke doesn't like him. Makes sense.

 

[The_Reaper]

If Clarke doesn't like you - your chances of playing for Australia are zero.

No different to Punter in that respect

 

[Cooldude]

Still think the coach and captain are taking the piss with this whole farce though

 

[Suckling2Gunston]

Oh, I see.

That would explain why Watson was picked as vice-captain. Seeing as Clarke doesn't like him. Makes sense.

At the time who would you have chosen? I'm intrigued.

 

[King Elvis]

I myself would say Waugh is the best ever ODI captain, but i would be shot down as being misinformed. Ponting was great but as with the bold text, his field placings and bowling changes left a lot to be desired. This was apparent when McGrath and Warne retired.

Ponting won one with Warney banned for drugs; didn't he win one with McGrath out injured as well?

 

[TassieEagle]

Ponting won one with Warney banned for drugs; didn't he win one with McGrath out injured as well?

Presume you are talking about ODI World Cups. He captained both without Warney ('03 out with drugs ban, retired by '07) and both with McGrath.

 

[thejester]

There's a few different issues wrapped up in one giant clusterfeck here:

1. How lazy are the 4 players? Firstly, yes it's a pathetic, childish and ridiculous request. But these guys are getting paid a ton of cash, they have plenty of free time, doing what management wants is not difficult. You just do it and tell yourselves in private "he's a complete Moo".

2. There's obviously a bucketload of personality clashes within the team, and between team and management. Otherwise why would a guy not even in the side not be arsed to do something a 12 year old could do effortlessly? That speaks volumes.

3. Australian cricket administration has become like England in the 1980s and 1990s. Seriously, it's now about conformance and less and less about performance. If the selectors don't know what each player brings to the team they shouldn't be in that position. If they desperately need to know, how about a net session instead of a powerpoint presentation?

4. Disciplining players is not a bad thing, and it's not a bad thing to be tough at the selection table. But surely it must be based on sound cricketing reasons (or being on the piss repeatedly etc.); not the willingness to send a text message to someone they clearly have no respect for.

Seriously struggling to see how it was a 'pathetic, childish and ridiculous request'. They were basically asked to pitch to the coach as to why they should be in the team. Regardless of what you think of the validity of that, you would have to be the dumbest ****up on the planet not to jump at that opportunity given the team's current situation.

 

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

Ponting won one with Warney banned for drugs; didn't he win one with McGrath out injured as well?

We went into the '03 WC in a bit of turmoil without Warne and Gillespie.

Despite what people say about the team captaining itself, it was a great achievement to win and win undefeated, especially considering just 12 months earlier we were embarrassed at home by South Africa and New Zealand towards the end of Waugh's reign.

 

[The Casey Cat]

Seriously struggling to see how it was a 'pathetic, childish and ridiculous request'. They were basically asked to pitch to the coach as to why they should be in the team. Regardless of what you think of the validity of that, you would have to be the dumbest ****up on the planet not to jump at that opportunity given the team's current situation.

Tend to agree. I would like to think there has been more going wrong and this was just the straw that broke the camels back. Watson and Clarke especially appear to be lazy sooks who act like they are entitled to a position on their talent only. Hopefully Patti learns as for Usman I am disappointed he has blown an opportunity.