Play Nice 45th President of the United States: Donald Trump - Part 7 - Trump takes full responsibility.

[happy_eagle]

Abolishing ICE: A total abolishment is certainly an overreach. You do realise that ICE operates essentially rogue? They need to be reigned in. Having said that, ICE's treatment of people in general, under both Obama and Trump, is terrible.

Also, abolishing ICE does not mean no security on the border or immigration. She's not proposing to abolish it and not replace it with anything.

 

[Seeds]

Per interaction with police, white people are more likely to be shot by them than black people. The myth that unarmed black people are overrepresented in police shooting stats has been disproven a thousand times. Your opinion is based on emotion, and not facts.

Can you show us some of this proof? I'm not denying it as I'm not overly informed on the topic. Just interested to know the facts.

 

[Seeds]

This sums it up I guess. "We love Trump because he triggers the snowflakes."

I think it's funny when rank hypocrites on the left go over the top. It's funny on the right, too. But to make it the basis of your support for a leader is stupid.

I think universal health care or raising the minimum wage is good not because it "triggers the right" but because it's good policy. You can argue against it - there are feasible conservative or libertarian arguments - but if you continue to support Trump because it makes you laugh or feel validated then you're going mostly against your own interests.

The fact that the two leaders of the Democrats are even less popular sums up the whole system.

What are good arguments for raising the minimum wage? Surely it would be better to allow unconstrained wages and just increase welfare payments instead if you dont think some wages give a high enough income?

 

[Mike Smyth]

Gabbard-Sanders would be a good ticket imo.

No love for Cortez-Winfrey?

 

[pjcrows]

What are good arguments for raising the minimum wage?

So that people can live with dignity? If you work 40 hours a week, you deserve to not live close to, or in, poverty.

 

[Showbags]

What are good arguments for raising the minimum wage? Surely it would be better to allow unconstrained wages and just increase welfare payments instead if you dont think some wages give a high enough income?

You are basically then just shifting the burden of paying people enough to live off away from employers onto the taxpayer.

Companies are making record profits. Why should taxpayers subsidise wages just so corporations can keep handing out massive dividends to their shareholders?

Bernie's idea of making large companies pay a $1 in tax for every $1 their employees receive in welfare is a good idea. Reduces the welfare state (which is what conservatives claim to love) and incentivises wage increases.

 

[Seeds]

You are basically then just shifting the burden of paying people enough to live off away from employers onto the taxpayer.

Companies are making record profits. Why should taxpayers subsidise wages just so corporations can keep handing out massive dividends to their shareholders?

Bernie's idea of making large companies pay a $1 in tax for every $1 their employees receive in welfare is a good idea. Reduces the welfare state (which is what conservatives claim to love) and incentivises wage increases.

If you dont have a minimum wage then you will have lower unemployment. In australia some service based jobs have been priced out of existence by a high minimum wage. They still exist in the US. Welfare payments to offset low wages would help keep the labour market fully employed whilst giving all workers an appropriate income.

In markets without barriers to entry profits always fall down to the standard interest rate plus a hurdle rate for risk. Industries dont grab profits from workers. That ain't how it works. Lower wage costs simply translate to lower prices which boosts the real purchasing power of tax payers. Force the industry to pay the higher wage and they either dont employ the worker or they simply increase the price of their products which creates distortions in markets. Government should also 100 percent pay maternity leave costs for the same reason rather than force industry to pay for it.

 

[Seeds]

So that people can live with dignity? If you work 40 hours a week, you deserve to not live close to, or in, poverty.

And that's why I said give them welfare ontop of their market determined wage. Increase minimum wages and some people go hungry cos they dont have a job at all. How is that helping their dignity?

 

[pjcrows]

And that's why I said give them welfare ontop of their market determined wage. Increase minimum wages and some people go hungry cos they dont have a job at all. How is that helping their dignity?

You think businesses will just stop employing as many people if wages go up?

 

[happy_eagle]

You think businesses will just stop employing as many people if wages go up?

They might be more incentivised to explore automation (as if there wasn't enough incentive already) over human labour.
Different discussion altogether though

 

[Cooldude]

Dinner at Conways must have interesting conversation


• george is married to kelly ann conway who is spokesperson for President Trump

The Con-way family Christmas dinner must've been quite something, must suck to have a wife who sells her soul for a pay cheque

 

[pjcrows]

They might be more incentivised to explore automation (as if there wasn't enough incentive already) over human labour.
Different discussion altogether though

Possibly. Increasing the minimum wage would affect different workers differently, but overall it would lift many out of poverty or near poverty. It also puts more money in to the economy.

FWIW, a city like Seattle increased minimum wage and unemployment decreased.

 

[Seeds]

Thanks for finding it GuruJane
As I said earlier - a stupid thing to say.

Lol. The people who studies have found that basically everyone unconsciously discriminates against those from other races are now all Nobel prize winners.

 

[Seeds]

Possibly. Increasing the minimum wage would affect different workers differently, but overall it would lift many out of poverty or near poverty. It also puts more money in to the economy.

FWIW, a city like Seattle increased minimum wage and unemployment decreased.

Fu*** me. This is not even first year economics. Its first day. People still disputing the basic concept of supply and demand in this day after all the trials of price fixing in the 20th century is staggering.

 

[pjcrows]

Lol. The people who studies have found that basically everyone unconsciously discriminates against those from other races are now all Nobel prize winners.

Have you got a link?

 

[pjcrows]

Fu*** me. This is not even first year economics. Its first day. People still disputing the basic concept of supply and demand in this day after all the trials of price fixing in the 20th century is staggering.

I'm aware of the supply-demand equilibrium, Mr Economics Professor.

 

[its free real estate]

No love for Cortez-Winfrey?

Cortez is too young, but when it’s her time she’ll be good (so long as she doesn’t exhaust her momentum)

 

[FireKrakouer]

Abolishing ICE: A total abolishment is certainly an overreach. You do realise that ICE operates essentially rogue? They need to be reigned in. Having said that, ICE's treatment of people in general, under both Obama and Trump, is terrible.

Medicare For All: I'd support 100%. And it'd save the government money in the long run. The current system is abhorrent for an established world superpower.

Free College: Yep.

70% tax rate: I'd 100% support. You do realise that it would be for the top margin, right? It's obscenely low at the moment. She has said it would be for every dollar earned over $10 million per year. Do you know what the top marginal tax rate was during America's golden age in the 50's and 60's?

A few you didn't mention:
Increasing the minimum wage to $15 per hour: I'd 100% support.

Decriminalizing marijuana: No brainer.

Green New Deal: Ambitious, but I support it.

Ending corporate political donations: The SINGLE biggest issue that the US has is this. Support 100%.


I see AOC's platform as essentially allowing people to live with basic dignity, and not allowing the country to be run as an oligarchy. She has an uphill battle against a fundamentally corrupt system.

It's crazy how a basic minimum wage, Medicare and fair tax rates is seen as radical commie left over there. These stances operate very well in most other western nations, including ours.

You said there would be 10 more. Happy for you to go and do some research and get back to me for discussion.

Tax the rich at 70% and you take away the incentive for entrepreneurship and send businesses (and hence jobs) overseas.

There are too many useless degrees out there and too many grads not getting jobs in the field they studied. This would get significantly worse with free college, as people do not appreciate or value things given to them for free. I'm happy for cheap loans to be provided like here, but not for studies without decent proven outcomes for employment. If the state are going to invest in one's education, they need to see a return on said investment.

Any reasonable person would agree with taking big money out of politics. I don't see it happening unfortunately.

Minimum wage I'm undecided on. There are pros and cons.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/panosm...and-thats-bad-news-for-cashiers/#1508dcaf2ee9

I agreed with you re Medicare m8, but it is untrue that it would save the government money. That myth doesn't pass the sniff test, and sure enough it is based on a misunderstanding of a healthcare study, explained here (along with a few other AOC howlers)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...o-cortezs-media-blitz/?utm_term=.e077d07b8958

Can you show us some of this proof? I'm not denying it as I'm not overly informed on the topic. Just interested to know the facts.

Sure brah. 3rd paragraph here
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_use_of_deadly_force_in_the_United_States#Racial_patterns

 

[pjcrows]

Tax the rich at 70% and you take away the incentive for entrepreneurship and send businesses (and hence jobs) overseas.

There are too many useless degrees out there and too many grads not getting jobs in the field they studied. This would get significantly worse with free college, as people do not appreciate or value things given to them for free. I'm happy for cheap loans to be provided like here, but not for studies without decent proven outcomes for employment. If the state are going to invest in one's education, they need to see a return on said investment.

Any reasonable person would agree with taking big money out of politics. I don't see it happening unfortunately.

Minimum wage I'm undecided on. There are pros and cons.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/panosm...and-thats-bad-news-for-cashiers/#1508dcaf2ee9

I agreed with you re Medicare, but it is untrue that it would save the government money. That myth doesn't pass the sniff test, and sure enough it is based on a misunderstanding of a healthcare study, explained here (along with a few other AOC howlers)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...o-cortezs-media-blitz/?utm_term=.e077d07b8958


Sure brah. 3rd paragraph here
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_use_of_deadly_force_in_the_United_States#Racial_patterns

Thanks for your reply.

 

[madmug]

So that people can live with dignity? If you work 40 hours a week, you deserve to not live close to, or in, poverty.

Or rely on handouts, tips, to survive.

Tips are a disgrace. You're basically obliged to pay them. It should be up to the customer if they get really great service. Not just because the worker needs a tip to survive.

Why cant they pay people properly in the USA?

 

[Mike Smyth]

Cortez (so long as she doesn’t exhaust her momentum)

Too late

 

[pjcrows]

Or rely on handouts, tips, to survive.

Tips are a disgrace. You're basically obliged to pay them. It should be up to the customer if they get really great service. Not just because the worker needs a tip to survive.

Why cant they pay people properly in the USA?

Because they have a corrupt political system that allows decision makers to be bought by the elite, who then make policy that favours them.

 

[Cooldude]

Or rely on handouts, tips, to survive.

Tips are a disgrace. You're basically obliged to pay them. It should be up to the customer if they get really great service. Not just because the worker needs a tip to survive.

Why cant they pay people properly in the USA?

Tips system is basically food chains' way of saying "you pay our workers, coz we sure as heck won't".

Capitalism gone mad.

 

[kirky]

This was the plan from the start. He was always going to use National Emergency, he just wanted to give the Dems enough of a chance so that he can say "look - they made me do it".

If the wall gets built, 2020 is locked in for Trump!


As I argued previously m8, opposites attract! I look forward to a future of ridiculing AOC's policies on twitter all day, then going home and having dinner with her after.

Donald Trump is a captive to the evangelicals and well, Fox News right wing loonies.

The wall won’t get built - he promise at the election was to get Mexico to pay for it and that ain’t happening.

Typical school yard bully.

Let’s wait and see what Mueller has to say - if as expected, he will fall on his sword and do a deal with the justice department.

 

[happy_eagle]

Or rely on handouts, tips, to survive.

Tips are a disgrace. You're basically obliged to pay them. It should be up to the customer if they get really great service. Not just because the worker needs a tip to survive.

Why cant they pay people properly in the USA?

One thing I will say on the tips thing (having lived in the states for a brief time) is that the service you get as a result is significantly greater than you get over here.
Doesn't nessecerily make it right