#5

[The Donners]

He's beaten all the blokes I've mentioned.

Garry Lyon averages 2 goals against Essendon in games Fletch has played.
Chris Tarrant less than 2.
Hentschel had one good game against Essendon, Thompson two.

Hall, Rocca, Tredrea have all consistently had the better of him. No doubt.



He has a goal conversion of 61%.
That's better than Lucas.

Last year he kicked a vital goal against Adelaide, from just inside 50 that turned the game.

He kicked three goals against West Coast last year, three straight. And with Lucas and Lovett was the catalyst in getting us back into the game.

Kicked a goal from outside 50 against West Coast the first time around.

He runs hard, wins the ball inside and out, has pace and is a very good kick of the football.

But hey, lets burn him because he missed two goals in one game. A game in which he had 24 disposals.

How many of those possessions were contested?

Again, which midfielder in the comp is he better than?

He's kicked 16 goals 10 behinds in his 49-game career... wow!

Winderlich has had 1 half-decent season and he's 24 this year.

How in God's name did you get the statistic for Fletcher and Lyon? Lyon's goal's per game average against Essendon is the second best across all other VFL/AFL teams.

Perhaps Tarrant wasn't a good example... he's simply crap! Well, that makes Mcphee and Tarrant as 2 AA's that will do FA for the rest of their careers!

 

[Longy413]

How many of those possessions were contested?

Thought you didn't rate stats...

I don't know, I do know from watching that he can and does win his own ball.

Again, which midfielder in the comp is he better than?

At Carlton, he's better than all bar Judd and Stevens.
At Geelong, none.
At Kangaroos, just about all bar Harvey and Wells on the occassions he plays at his potential. Probably on a level playing field with a number of others.

He's kicked 16 goals 10 behinds in his 49-game career... wow!

Played a lot of the first half of those games in the backline.

Winderlich has had 1 half-decent season and he's 24 this year.

Half decent season?
He became our most important midfielder in that half decent season and was getting tags.

The only time in his career he's been fully fit. He's fit again now and played two very good games. Used the ball well, ran and carried.

How in God's name did you get the statistic for Fletcher and Lyon? Lyon's goal's per game average against Essendon is the second best across all other VFL/AFL teams.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Dustin Fletcher wasn't playing AFL when he was 10 years old and Garry Lyon was debuting.

I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think Fletcher played between 1986 and 1992.

 

[Big Scottknowsall]

How many of those possessions were contested?

Again, which midfielder in the comp is he better than?

He's kicked 16 goals 10 behinds in his 49-game career... wow!

Winderlich has had 1 half-decent season and he's 24 this year.

How in God's name did you get the statistic for Fletcher and Lyon? Lyon's goal's per game average against Essendon is the second best across all other VFL/AFL teams.

Perhaps Tarrant wasn't a good example... he's simply crap! Well, that makes Mcphee and Tarrant as 2 AA's that will do FA for the rest of their careers!

Are you one of those people that thinks Mcphee has been no good this season thus far?

 

[The Donners]

Are you one of those people that thinks Mcphee has been no good this season thus far?

Yes I am. Been played out of position for various reasons though.

Holds the ball up too long in the forward line when he's got the ball. Doesn't hold the ball up long enough in the forward line when he doesn't have the ball.

I realise kicking goals isn't everything for a forward but his return is poor. Also I wouldn't think that he's played a large role in many goals- please distinguish the difference between many and any.

Are you one of those people that think Stanton will be an elite midfielder and that Hille is a good tap ruckman?

 

[The Donners]

Thought you didn't rate stats...

I don't know, I do know from watching that he can and does win his own ball.



At Carlton, he's better than all bar Judd and Stevens, Gibbs and Murphy.
At Geelong, none.
At Kangaroos, just about all bar Harvey and Wells on the occassions he plays at his potential. Probably on a level playing field with a number of others. Simpson, Grant (when in middle).



Played a lot of the first half of those games in the backline. LOL



Half decent season?
He became our most important midfielder in that half decent season and was getting tags. Most important midfielder in the worst midfield, I'll pay that.

The only time in his career he's been fully fit. He's fit again now and played two very good games. Used the ball well, ran and carried.



Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Dustin Fletcher wasn't playing AFL when he was 10 years old and Garry Lyon was debuting.

I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think Fletcher played between 1986 and 1992.

1993-1999 Garry Lyon averaged 3.6 goals per game against the Dons. Kept goalless once- Allen Jakovich kicked 5 goals that game and incidentally kicked 8 goals on him in another game.

Since 1993, these are just some of the full-forwards that have a great record against Essendon. Notice I only chose the hacks.

Kent Kingsley- Hghest goalscoring average.
Simon Minton-Connell - 2nd highest goalscoring average.
Brett Burton - Highest goalscoring average.
Allen Jakovich - 2nd highest goalscoring average.

Hardly puts Fletcher in the same category as Silvagni as Kernahan suggested.

Fletcher is/was a fantastic player, beautiful kick, good mark... but in a one-on-one contest, no good.

 

[The Donners]

Thought you didn't rate stats...

When in Rome...

 

[Red Black and Blue]

1993-1999 Garry Lyon averaged 3.6 goals per game against the Dons. Kept goalless once- Allen Jakovich kicked 5 goals that game and incidentally kicked 8 goals on him in another game.

Since 1993, these are just some of the full-forwards that have a great record against Essendon. Notice I only chose the hacks.

Kent Kingsley- Hghest goalscoring average.
Simon Minton-Connell - 2nd highest goalscoring average.
Brett Burton - Highest goalscoring average.
Allen Jakovich - 2nd highest goalscoring average.

Hardly puts Fletcher in the same category as Silvagni as Kernahan suggested.

Fletcher is/was a fantastic player, beautiful kick, good mark... but in a one-on-one contest, no good.

Agree, while he has been a general down back for us, never rated him having the ability to shut down a FF. Fletchers brilliance comes from his efficentcy, his ability to spoil in packs, 70 metre kicks and his football brain. We should have been looking for developing his replacement years ago. While Mal Michael is the short term fix we need to start blooding Pears from a young age to fast track him.

BTW Gibbs is not better than Winderlich

 

[Longy413]

The fact that you haven't seen enough footy to recognise where Winderlich started his career, or have seen it but are ignorant to the fact, rules out any further discussion on that subject.

I recognise that Dustin Fletcher isn't an all time great stopper. However, you stated he was no good one on one. He is good, his record against the likes of Lockett proves that. However, he wasn't great and wasn't in the best couple going around. His all round game however, puts him ahead of many.

Lyon (and Jakovich) kicked a lot of those goals when Fletch was a skinny 18, 19, 20 year old kid. If we played Pears on Brown kicked four (above his career average) we'd be happy.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

1993-1999 Garry Lyon averaged 3.6 goals per game against the Dons. Kept goalless once- Allen Jakovich kicked 5 goals that game and incidentally kicked 8 goals on him in another game.

Since 1993, these are just some of the full-forwards that have a great record against Essendon. Notice I only chose the hacks.

Kent Kingsley- Hghest goalscoring average.
Simon Minton-Connell - 2nd highest goalscoring average.
Brett Burton - Highest goalscoring average.
Allen Jakovich - 2nd highest goalscoring average.

Hardly puts Fletcher in the same category as Silvagni as Kernahan suggested.

Fletcher is/was a fantastic player, beautiful kick, good mark... but in a one-on-one contest, no good.

I expect Fletcher to have less of a record against "the hacks". He never paid any respect to them and was more concerned about getting the ball or helping out teammates.

It frustrated me at times because when he wanted to he could demolish any of them. He chose to play the game that way and I have no doubts our defence as a whole has been better for it.

 

[The Donners]

The fact that you haven't seen enough footy to recognise where Winderlich started his career, or have seen it but are ignorant to the fact, rules out any further discussion on that subject.

I recognise that Dustin Fletcher isn't an all time great stopper. However, you stated he was no good one on one. He is good, his record against the likes of Lockett proves that. However, he wasn't great and wasn't in the best couple going around. His all round game however, puts him ahead of many.

Lyon (and Jakovich) kicked a lot of those goals when Fletch was a skinny 18, 19, 20 year old kid. If we played Pears on Brown kicked four (above his career average) we'd be happy.

4.3 goals a game against Dons 1993-2002. Career average of 4.8 goals a game... hardly fantastic is it.

8.0 goals a game by Gary Ablett.

There isn't a statistic (and yes Longy I hate statistic) that proves Fletcher is good one-on-one. There's not one full forward that Fletcher has had the better of over his career in terms of stopping them... find proof and I'll apologise.

No one is denying Fletch is a fantastic player... a general if you will!

 

[The Donners]

The fact that you haven't seen enough footy to recognise where Winderlich started his career, or have seen it but are ignorant to the fact, rules out any further discussion on that subject.

I recognise that Dustin Fletcher isn't an all time great stopper. However, you stated he was no good one on one. He is good, his record against the likes of Lockett proves that. However, he wasn't great and wasn't in the best couple going around. His all round game however, puts him ahead of many.

Lyon (and Jakovich) kicked a lot of those goals when Fletch was a skinny 18, 19, 20 year old kid. If we played Pears on Brown kicked four (above his career average) we'd be happy.

... Winderlich started on the wing by the way.

 

[Longy413]

4.3 goals a game against Dons 1993-2002. Career average of 4.8 goals a game... hardly fantastic is it.

8.0 goals a game by Gary Ablett.

There isn't a statistic (and yes Longy I hate statistic) that proves Fletcher is good one-on-one. There's not one full forward that Fletcher has had the better of over his career in terms of stopping them... find proof and I'll apologise.

No one is denying Fletch is a fantastic player... a general if you will!

Any team would take four goals a game from Lockett.
Fletcher spent little time on Ablett when he kicked 14 against us. That inflates those statistics massively.

You said he isn't good one on one. He is good, not great, not supreme, but good. He isn't poor by any stretch.

... Winderlich started on the wing by the way.

Played in the back pocket.
Rodan and Krakeour in his first game. Krak turned it on.

Got knocked out against Hawthorn in about his 5th game (the brawl).

Played several of his early games in the back pocket or half back.
Got very little time in the midfield, a lot of bench time too.

It wasn't until last year he got significant time in the middle.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

4.3 goals a game against Dons 1993-2002. Career average of 4.8 goals a game... hardly fantastic is it.

8.0 goals a game by Gary Ablett.

There isn't a statistic (and yes Longy I hate statistic) that proves Fletcher is good one-on-one. There's not one full forward that Fletcher has had the better of over his career in terms of stopping them... find proof and I'll apologise.

No one is denying Fletch is a fantastic player... a general if you will!

These are the best FF's from 99-05. These are Fletch's results against them. I've picked out years where I think both are at their peek. eg Neitz 99-04, Fev 01-04, etc

Neitz 4,2,2,3,5,1,0
Fevola 3,4,1,2,0,2,0
Gehrig 1,2,3,3
Lynch 0,4,2,0,1,4

That looks pretty good to me. Neitz, Gehrig and Lynch have been the biggest monsters in recent times.

I think Fletcher is great one on one. Not the best but great nonetheless. He leaks a few goals because like Carey said "Fletch gives you a chance because he thinks he can close you down with his speed"

 

[The Donners]

These are the best FF's from 99-05. These are Fletch's results against them. I've picked out years where I think both are at their peek. eg Neitz 99-04, Fev 01-04, etc

Neitz 4,2,2,3,5,1,0
Fevola 3,4,1,2,0,2,0
Gehrig 1,2,3,3
Lynch 0,4,2,0,1,4

That looks pretty good to me. Neitz, Gehrig and Lynch have been the biggest monsters in recent times.

I think Fletcher is great one on one. Not the best but great nonetheless. He leaks a few goals because like Carey said "Fletch gives you a chance because he thinks he can close you down with his speed"

I Agree to disagree!