...

[McCrann]

Ran out of space there, but essentially, now is the time for a cleanout of the Test & ODI teams. I don't care whether these guys have personally had a good Summer or World Cup, but we need to be looking down the track to:

Ashes (2013) in England
Ashes (2013/14) in Australia
World Cup (2015) in Australia

We don't want to stuff these series up - particularly 2013/14 and 2015 Home World Cup.

Whichever current players in the team will not be around for those series should now be retired from the Test & ODI teams.

The one player who was on the chopping board prior to the World Cup but has saved his skin is Michael Clarke IMO. He has probably earnt the right to stay in both teams for the moment. Next Summer we will have to determine if he's the right player to lead us into 2013, 2013/14 and 2015.

The players to go are:

Brad Haddin (OUT) (33yrs of age, 37+ for 2015 World Cup)
Tim Paine (IN)
Sorry mate, a good Summer for Hadding, but Tim Paine needs be brought on now and we need to know if he can cut it at the top level.

Ricky Ponting (OUT) (36yrs of age, 40+ for 2015 World Cup)
Callum Ferguson (IN)
Time to go Punter, we all know it. He's already 36 and will be 40+ at 2015 World Cup! That century should matter not a jot. Let him go to Bangladesh, but certainly not to Sri Lanka in a few months.

Brett Lee (OUT) (34yrs of age, 39+ for 2015 World Cup)
James Pattinson (IN)
A couple to choose from for this slot, but Pattinson has looked very good to me.

Michael Hussey (OUT) (35yrs of age, nearly 36, 40+ for 2015 World Cup)
Aaron Finch (IN) ??? Lot of options for this slot
Aaron Finch has shown a bit, at least for the ODI team.

These changes need to be made forthwith and I don't believe any of these players should get a "long farewell" next Summer. We have been humiliated this Summer with a crushing home Ashes defeat and the Selectors have been shown up for spineless decision making - particularly in 2009/10 when they should have made changes to the team and brought new players into the team against Pakistan & West Indies to prepare them for this Summer - Ashes and World Cup.

The selectors failed and hence - we failed miserably at both. I believe this is perhaps our worst World Cup performance EVER.

To those who might say its easy to say in hindsight - yes it is, but I was making these same calls (except for Haddin). prior to the visit of the Pakistani and West Indian teams. It was clear we were going to struggle to regain the Ashes (we've now lost 3/4 Ashes series - terrible) if we didn't blood any new talent.

We didn't and we were spanked. First out need to be Hilditch, Boon and Cox. Terrible selectors who've overseen this slump in our fortunes into which we are no longer in the Top 4 cricketing nations in the world (behind England, India, South Africa and Sri Lanka). Terrible.

 

[Subprime]

Re: Changes-Haddin(OUT) & Paine(IN), Ponting(OUT) & Ferguson(IN), Lee(OUT) & Pattinson(IN), M Hussey

....

The one player who was on the chopping board prior to the World Cup but has saved his skin is Michael Clarke IMO. He has probably earnt the right to stay in both teams for the moment. Next Summer we will have to determine if he's the right player to lead us into 2013, 2013/14 and 2015.

....

Eh?

At the 2011 WC his numbers are as follows:

58 runs from 77 balls vs Zim
24no (37) NZ
93 (109) Kenya
16no (29) Canada
34 (48) Pakistan
8 (19) India

Overall 233 runs @ 58 with a strike rate of 73

Against non-minnows: 66 runs @ 33 with a strike rate of 63

 

[Coledinho]

Re: Changes-Haddin(OUT) & Paine(IN), Ponting(OUT) & Ferguson(IN), Lee(OUT) & Pattinson(IN), M Hussey

Ima go with

Watson
Cosgrove
Khawaja
Clarke
Ferguson
Henriques
Paine
Christian
Hauritz
McKay
Cummins

 

[Tyberious Funk]

Re: Changes-Haddin(OUT) & Paine(IN), Ponting(OUT) & Ferguson(IN), Lee(OUT) & Pattinson(IN), M Hussey

Eh?

At the 2011 WC his numbers are as follows:

58 runs from 77 balls vs Zim
24no (37) NZ
93 (109) Kenya
16no (29) Canada
34 (48) Pakistan
8 (19) India

Overall 233 runs @ 58 with a strike rate of 73

Actually, according to Cricinfo, Clarke averaged 77, with a strike rate of 91.

Against non-minnows: 66 runs @ 33 with a strike rate of 63

Hrrm... wonder what Cam White's stats look like for the tournament.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Re: Changes-Haddin(OUT) & Paine(IN), Ponting(OUT) & Ferguson(IN), Lee(OUT) & Pattinson(IN), M Hussey

Cameron White's form is well known to all but those selecting the side, it seems. I think it goes without saying, although some seem to have made it their full time job to say it over and over and over and over again.

 

[Subprime]

Re: Changes-Haddin(OUT) & Paine(IN), Ponting(OUT) & Ferguson(IN), Lee(OUT) & Pattinson(IN), M Hussey

Actually, according to Cricinfo, Clarke averaged 77, with a strike rate of 91.

I stand corrected. I mis-read Clarke's ability to flog minnows:

At the 2011 WC his numbers are as follows:

58 runs not out from 55 balls vs Zim
24no (37) NZ
93 (80) Kenya
16no (17) Canada
34 (48) Pakistan
8 (19) India

Overall 233 runs @ 78 with a strike rate of 91

Against non-minnows: 66 runs @ 33 with a strike rate of 63

Against minnows: 167 runs @ 167 with a strike rate of 110

Not sure what Cameron White has got to do with these figures. Please explain.

 

[Kahuna]

Re: Changes-Haddin(OUT) & Paine(IN), Ponting(OUT) & Ferguson(IN), Lee(OUT) & Pattinson(IN), M Hussey

White - Should never play for Australia again.

You also can't have Johnson and Tait in the same team, would be better if neither of them were in the team to be honest.

Krejza is no good, hope we have a decent spinner somewhere.

 

[eddiesmith]

Re: Changes-Haddin(OUT) & Paine(IN), Ponting(OUT) & Ferguson(IN), Lee(OUT) & Pattinson(IN), M Hussey

For the near future

Watson, Paine/Wade, White, Clarke, Finch, Ferguson, Smith, Doherty, Hastings, Pattinson, Bollinger

With 4 years to go untill Australia hosts the World Cup there is plenty of time to have a good look at a few players and this time domestic form should help them as they wont be going to foreign conditions

Although the leading wicket takers in the Ryobi Cup are a bit of a worry for the future, full of players at the top who have been stamped never to play again or some who are simply too old

 

[aussierulesrules]

Re: Changes-Haddin(OUT) & Paine(IN), Ponting(OUT) & Ferguson(IN), Lee(OUT) & Pattinson(IN), M Hussey

White - Should never play for Australia again.

Why, because he had a form slump for a couple of months after a couple of very good years, including scoring the second most runs for Australia in ODI's last year?
That makes a lot of sense.
This Cameron White hate is getting ridiculous. You'd think he was this evil dictator, or that he'd slept with everyone's wives or girlfriends, or imposed a whole lot of new taxes on us all, or something. It's really sad and pathetic to see it all. Especially since all these "heroes" abusing him from behind their computers wouldn't get withing cooee of having a career like he has.
He's just a guy going about his business and living his life and presumably doing the best he can and it just isn't working for him at the moment. I don't think it's reasonable for everyone to be spewing all their bile at him, when he's not the one selecting the team. He's being asked to do a job and it's not coming off at the moment. What's he supposed to do, say "no I won't play for Australia"? Who that's bagging him would seriously knock back that chance?

 

[FRUMPY]

Re: Changes-Haddin(OUT) & Paine(IN), Ponting(OUT) & Ferguson(IN), Lee(OUT) & Pattinson(IN), M Hussey

Watson
Paine
Clarke
Ferg
Dussey
Wade
Smith
Johnson
Pattinson
McKay
Doherty

Hastings/Christian/Lynn/Finch/Harris/Marsh

Time to ring in the changes and build for the future. Punter/Hussey/Lee/Tait/Haddin to be retired from ODI. White to be dropped. D Hussey deserves a year or two as he has looked good the last few months, can be a leader amongst the lads. Paine is the next cab in line for the keping position, but i would also play Wade, has been the form player in Domestic Ryobi Cup this year and deserves a crack. Pattinson looks a great one day prospect and mckay is our best one day bowler, doherty our best spinner. All 11 can handle the bat as well.

 

[Kahuna]

Re: Changes-Haddin(OUT) & Paine(IN), Ponting(OUT) & Ferguson(IN), Lee(OUT) & Pattinson(IN), M Hussey

I don't mind our chances in 2015, long time away but we can just bounce the crap out of the sub continent teams.

 

[eddiesmith]

Re: Changes-Haddin(OUT) & Paine(IN), Ponting(OUT) & Ferguson(IN), Lee(OUT) & Pattinson(IN), M Hussey

Interesting to see that possibly the best batsman in the Ryobi Cup from limited chances may have been Marcus North

 

[Kahuna]

Re: Changes-Haddin(OUT) & Paine(IN), Ponting(OUT) & Ferguson(IN), Lee(OUT) & Pattinson(IN), M Hussey

Why, because he had a form slump for a couple of months after a couple of very good years, including scoring the second most runs for Australia in ODI's last year?
That makes a lot of sense.
This Cameron White hate is getting ridiculous. You'd think he was this evil dictator, or that he'd slept with everyone's wives or girlfriends, or imposed a whole lot of new taxes on us all, or something. It's really sad and pathetic to see it all. Especially since all these "heroes" abusing him from behind their computers wouldn't get withing cooee of having a career like he has.
He's just a guy going about his business and living his life and presumably doing the best he can and it just isn't working for him at the moment. I don't think it's reasonable for everyone to be spewing all their bile at him, when he's not the one selecting the team. He's being asked to do a job and it's not coming off at the moment. What's he supposed to do, say "no I won't play for Australia"? Who that's bagging him would seriously knock back that chance?

Anyone can bat down the order and have a swing, he has been shown to have a terrible technique and has been exposed at the highest level.

Looks at the teams he has made runs against.

Pakistan...
New Zealand....
England.... (terrible at the ODI's)

Look at his averages against the better sides

Sri Lanka - 17.50
South Africa - 17.33
WC - 17.50

Its not personal hate towards him, its hate that he is in the team in the first place when the stats clearly show he is not good enough at the international level.

 

[Bomber Bears]

Re: Changes-Haddin(OUT) & Paine(IN), Ponting(OUT) & Ferguson(IN), Lee(OUT) & Pattinson(IN), M Hussey

Why, because he had a form slump for a couple of months after a couple of very good years, including scoring the second most runs for Australia in ODI's last year?
That makes a lot of sense.
This Cameron White hate is getting ridiculous. You'd think he was this evil dictator, or that he'd slept with everyone's wives or girlfriends, or imposed a whole lot of new taxes on us all, or something. It's really sad and pathetic to see it all. Especially since all these "heroes" abusing him from behind their computers wouldn't get withing cooee of having a career like he has.
He's just a guy going about his business and living his life and presumably doing the best he can and it just isn't working for him at the moment. I don't think it's reasonable for everyone to be spewing all their bile at him, when he's not the one selecting the team. He's being asked to do a job and it's not coming off at the moment. What's he supposed to do, say "no I won't play for Australia"? Who that's bagging him would seriously knock back that chance?

To not play again is stupid, but he is a player who doesnt look like scoring runs at the moment. Needs a sting in first class/list a cricket at the least

 

[PrideOf]

Re: Changes-Haddin(OUT) & Paine(IN), Ponting(OUT) & Ferguson(IN), Lee(OUT) & Pattinson(IN), M Hussey

This Cameron White hate is getting ridiculous. You'd think he was this evil dictator, or that he'd slept with everyone's wives or girlfriends, or imposed a whole lot of new taxes on us all, or something. It's really sad and pathetic to see it all. Especially since all these "heroes" abusing him from behind their computers wouldn't get withing cooee of having a career like he has.
He's just a guy going about his business and living his life and presumably doing the best he can and it just isn't working for him at the moment. I don't think it's reasonable for everyone to be spewing all their bile at him, when he's not the one selecting the team. He's being asked to do a job and it's not coming off at the moment. What's he supposed to do, say "no I won't play for Australia"? Who that's bagging him would seriously knock back that chance?

The only thing worse than the Cameron White hate is the Cameron White love. The only defence of him I hear on here is that 'he's a Victorian, get him up here I wanna boof him'.

As for your statement that it's supposedly up to him to drop out of international cricket if he feels he's letting everyone down - who are you, Andrew Hilditch?

 

[Majinbuu]

Re: Changes-Haddin(OUT) & Paine(IN), Ponting(OUT) & Ferguson(IN), Lee(OUT) & Pattinson(IN), M Hussey

Interesting to see that possibly the best batsman in the Ryobi Cup from limited chances may have been Marcus North

And he bowls better os than krezja!

 

[aussie1st]

Re: Changes-Haddin(OUT) & Paine(IN), Ponting(OUT) & Ferguson(IN), Lee(OUT) & Pattinson(IN), M Hussey

I'd dump those players in your title by our next tour. There is absolutely no benefit in having them go to Bangladesh whereas there is a lot of benefit from having the new guys in. It might be rough on guys like Lee but they really should be calling it a day and letting the youngsters through.

 

[STC]

Re: Changes-Haddin(OUT) & Paine(IN), Ponting(OUT) & Ferguson(IN), Lee(OUT) & Pattinson(IN), M Hussey

The only thing worse than the Cameron White hate is the Cameron White love. The only defence of him I hear on here is that 'he's a Victorian, get him up here I wanna boof him'.

As for your statement that it's supposedly up to him to drop out of international cricket if he feels he's letting everyone down - who are you, Andrew Hilditch?

The only reason the hate exists in the way it does is because of the love. It's reactionary drivel. White is a talented batsman out of form, end of story. Yes, he should be dropped from the team based on his current form. No, he shouldn't be sent off into exile.

 

[Rookie]

Re: Changes-Haddin(OUT) & Paine(IN), Ponting(OUT) & Ferguson(IN), Lee(OUT) & Pattinson(IN), M Hussey

The team I'd take to Bangladesh, with mind to giving games to our fill-in players, blooding some newcomers and resting our champs would look something like this:

Finch
Paine
Ferguson
Clarke (C)
D.Hussey
Christian (time for a taste?)
Smith (likewise)
Hastings
Johnson (bowling well)
Lee (we want to win don't we?)
Krejza / O'Keefe (pick whichever player is more likely to go to Sri Lanka)

 

[eddiesmith]

Re: Changes-Haddin(OUT) & Paine(IN), Ponting(OUT) & Ferguson(IN), Lee(OUT) & Pattinson(IN), M Hussey

The team I'd take to Bangladesh, with mind to giving games to our fill-in players, blooding some newcomers and resting our champs would look something like this:

Finch
Paine
Ferguson
Clarke (C)
D.Hussey
Christian (time for a taste?)
Smith (likewise)
Hastings
Johnson (bowling well)
Lee (we want to win don't we?)
Krejza / O'Keefe (pick whichever player is more likely to go to Sri Lanka)

O'Keefe? The guy who averaged over 100 this year with the ball?

Test cricket maybe, ODIs, should be a long way back in the queue

Other problem with your bowling attack is a lack of 2nd opening bowler to support Lee, although lets be realistic he is nearing the end so why stick with him?

 

[Cleavy]

Re: Changes-Haddin(OUT) & Paine(IN), Ponting(OUT) & Ferguson(IN), Lee(OUT) & Pattinson(IN), M Hussey

Other problem with your bowling attack is a lack of 2nd opening bowler to support Lee, although lets be realistic he is nearing the end so why stick with him?

so he can play his 200th ODI.

 

[eddiesmith]

Re: Changes-Haddin(OUT) & Paine(IN), Ponting(OUT) & Ferguson(IN), Lee(OUT) & Pattinson(IN), M Hussey

Anyone can bat down the order and have a swing, he has been shown to have a terrible technique and has been exposed at the highest level.

Looks at the teams he has made runs against.

Pakistan...
New Zealand....
England.... (terrible at the ODI's)

Look at his averages against the better sides

Sri Lanka - 17.50
South Africa - 17.33
WC - 17.50

Its not personal hate towards him, its hate that he is in the team in the first place when the stats clearly show he is not good enough at the international level.

Nice selective stat work there

Now is there some particular reason you left out the side who he has his best record by far against? I hope its not something to do with the fact they are the no1 ODI team outside of Australia at the moment and it would totally destroy your point but more a mere oversight on your behalf...

 

[eddiesmith]

Re: Changes-Haddin(OUT) & Paine(IN), Ponting(OUT) & Ferguson(IN), Lee(OUT) & Pattinson(IN), M Hussey

so he can play his 200th ODI.

Oh, ok then so he can play 1 more game then...

 

[Bomber Bears]

Re: Changes-Haddin(OUT) & Paine(IN), Ponting(OUT) & Ferguson(IN), Lee(OUT) & Pattinson(IN), M Hussey

Yeah o'keefe is a better bat than bowler in OD cricket, just isnt sucessful in this form, he's an ok T20 and pretty damn good first class bowler

 

[Russian]

Re: Changes-Haddin(OUT) & Paine(IN), Ponting(OUT) & Ferguson(IN), Lee(OUT) & Pattinson(IN), M Hussey

The last one of these threads isn't even half way down the page.