A question for the "it wasn't a red! the ref is a cheat!" crowd.

[Portmanteau]

On reflection, it had to be a red card. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem a good way to differentiate between punishments for unintentional and intentional handball on the goal line (it may have been "intentional" to the letter of the law, but to suggest HK intentionally handballed, in a literal sense is laughable).

Clearly the punishment requires a penalty kick, and a red card to make up for turning a guaranteed goal into a non-guaranteed goal. However, perhaps for unintentional handball such as the above case, the game suspension needs to be waived. For Kewell to miss a game over this incident versus actual blatant actions such as the Serbian handballs and Addy's tackle is reprehensible.

 

[Chops18]

What is your point??? He is Australian and we are Australian supporters...

What a ****ing idiot.

The point he is making that the majority of fans only watch the game with green and gold glasses. The people who don't wear the glasses see things with a clearer perspective.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

The point he is making that the majority of fans only watch the game with green and gold glasses. The people who don't wear the glasses see things with a clearer perspective.

Bullshit. He's shit-stirring.

I've disagreed with many decisions this world cup, but the one that has me fired up is the one against my team.

Its really not that hard to understand why Australians are more upset about Kewells red card than Kaka' red or the USA's disallowed goal...


FWIW: Pen yes, red never. It wasn't intentional. Not the worst red card I've ever seen by a long stretch, doesn't mean Im one-eyed for getting upset about it.

 

[Chops18]

Bullshit. He's shit-stirring.

I've disagreed with many decisions this world cup, but the one that has me fired up is the one against my team.

Its really not that hard to understand why Australians are more upset about Kewells red card than Kaka' red or the USA's disallowed goal...

That's understandable but there are a number of us who aren't getting all fired up over Harry's red because we can see how and why it was given red without throwing tantrums as a number of people do (not pointing my finger to any particular person).

 

[belfast_bomber]

I know what Deebs meant by the thread, but there was a lot of steam to be let off at the time. What he doesn't understand, being a pommy pom pom, is that to be an Australian soccer supporter is to be mugged by fate at regular intervals.

We know we're not great but we have to cling to what we've got and pray that just once something might work for us... we were utterly, utterly shattered after Germany but we'd started fantastically in this match, got the goal and the initiative back, were starting to believe again despite everything... and then this. It was really, really hard to take, and the natural reaction was to lash out.

 

[Fossie 32]

That's understandable but there are a number of us who aren't getting all fired up over Harry's red because we can see how and why it was given red without throwing tantrums as a number of people do (not pointing my finger to any particular person).

Can the people who can see how and why it was correctly a red please quote the actual rules rather than just saying that's the way it is?

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

I know what Deebs meant by the thread, but there was a lot of steam to be let off at the time. What he doesn't understand, being a pommy pom pom, is that to be an Australian soccer supporter is to be mugged by fate at regular intervals.

We know we're not great but we have to cling to what we've got and pray that just once something might work for us... we were utterly, utterly shattered after Germany but we'd started fantastically in this match, got the goal and the initiative back, were starting to believe again despite everything... and then this. It was really, really hard to take, and the natural reaction was to lash out.

I didn't realise this! Yup, he's shit-stirring. If I'd known I wouldn't of bitten!

I do the exact same thing to my English friends over here, and believe me, the English media are 100x times worse than ours. (And they are hurting 100x more than us right now...)

Play on pommy.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

That's understandable but there are a number of us who aren't getting all fired up over Harry's red because we can see how and why it was given red without throwing tantrums as a number of people do (not pointing my finger to any particular person).

We're not idiots. I can see why it was given. Doesn't mean it was the correct call.

 

[belfast_bomber]

In all honesty it was a freak occurrence. It hardly ever happens.

Just our bloody luck.

 

[that_dood]

We're not idiots. I can see why it was given. Doesn't mean it was the correct call.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spor...-1225881956506

REFEREE Roberto Rosetti had "no choice" but to dismiss Harry Kewell for handball, according the Australian referee at the last two World Cups.

Mark Shield, who was Australia's leading official until he retired in 2008, insisted "you do not see a clearer case of handball on the goalline" after Kewell was dismissed for blocking a Ghanaian shot in the Socceroos' 1-1 draw yesterday.

Shield said there were two crucial factors that dictated both the award of a penalty and Kewell's expulsion after less than half an hour.

"The key fact is the shot was hit from so far away (roughly 10m) it gave Harry the chance to get out of the way - it couldn't be regarded as ball to hand," he said.

"At the last World Cup we were briefed that a ball hit hard from two or three metres away might not be viewed as intentional handball, but Harry was three or four times as far away.

"Not only that but he also makes a small but definite move towards the ball with his arm - for whatever reason, as the ball came to him Harry's arm stayed stiff and that's handball.

 

[RoJo Junior]

Sorry but that article is full of shit. The Ghanaian was only just outside the 6 yard box, hardly 10m.

Six yards = ~5.5 meters.

Harry had his arm as close to his body as he could, was a very harsh decision which under different refereeing interpretations could be seen differently. The only way Harry could've avoided the contact was by completely jumping out of the way, and he would've looked like a squib doing that. Where the player deliberately sticks his arm out to block is deemed a red, ones where it hits the arm like that without the player's intent is not always given a red card offence.

I also disagree with you regarding the tackle on Bresciano. That was a straight red every day of the week. Disgusting tackle, quite possibly the worst of the tournament. Studs on the back of the ankle went straight through Bresh and nowhere near the ball. It's the type of injury Arsenal supporters generally cry foul at. Makes Shawcross look like a gentle giant.

 

[that_dood]

Fair enough. Everyone has their own opinions. Both decisions on another day would have gone our way, but I still believe both decisions were correct, and so does Australia's last referee at the World Cup.

Where is Eddie Lennie when you need him! By far Australia's greatest ref.

EDIT: The penalty spot is 11 metres, and he would have been half way between the six yard box and the spot, so closer to nine metres which is far enough away for it to be deemed hand-to-ball by a ref.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

^^^^^ There a articles and opinions from respected analysts that counter the one you posted aswell, it proves nothing.

It was a tight call and one that has been given a red in the past as well. I'm happy to agree to disagree with those with different opinions than myself.

I didnt post with the intention of debating the merits of the card, it helps nothing. I posted to highlight that complaining and singling out our local media when it backs its national team is naive, it happens in every sport the world over.

When I realised the OP was an Englishman, I knew he was taking the mick.

Although its extremely hypocritical, the English have blamed everything from the ball, to Capello's lack of English, to the players getting bored!!! Its a chook lotto guessing the next excuse.

At least most Aussies know we're not good enough.

 

[Leo Barry You Star]

Hmmm .. the opinion of a respected Australian referee or that of a bunch of one eyed Bigfooty whingers ...

I'm with Shields.

 

[Dramoth]

And in that article it has Arsenal as equal 2nd for respect towards referees, behind Fulham.

Which part of prior history didnt you understand.

I got pinged for showing stuff before 2008 and not mentioning that I was talking about previous seasons...

 

[Borgsta]

Yep fair enough it's a red and the correct decision but when you see Vidic only get a yellow for trying to grab a ball you kind of feel aggravated that Kewell gets a red for trying to get his body in front of the ball.

 

[Dramoth]

Yep fair enough it's a red and the correct decision but when you see Vidic only get a yellow for trying to grab a ball you kind of feel aggravated that Kewell gets a red for trying to get his body in front of the ball.

Something like that...

Rules need to be applied across the board and not just selectively either.

How would we be if the umpires in AFL started operating on using their own interpretations of the rules when controlling a match... Oh wait...

 

[Borgsta]

Hmmm .. the opinion of a respected Australian referee or that of a bunch of one eyed Bigfooty whingers ...

I'm with Shields.

Other refs are aswell.

Perth's Eddie Lennie, who was a referee at the 1998 World Cup, said Rosetti had no choice but to issue a red card to Kewell for handball on the goal line in Australia's 1-1 draw with Ghana at Rustenburg's Royal Bafokeng Stadium on Saturday.

.....

"He handled the ball, preventing a goal being scored, and that means it's a red-card offence. Some of them are trying to say he stood there and the ball hit his arm. He didn't just stand there. He put his arm there. He actually moved his arm and dropped his shoulder and that's handball. He stopped the ball going in, so that's a red card."

Lennie is an Asian Football Confederation referee assessor and instructor, as well as the referee development manager for WA's peak soccer body, Football West.

He said Kewell's movement towards the ball meant there would be only one outcome once it had struck his arm and been deflected away from the goal. Lennie also said the former Leeds United and Liverpool winger would have been spared a send-off had the ball continued into the net after hitting his arm.

"Had the ball struck his arm and gone in the goal it would've only been a yellow card because it wouldn't have prevented a goal. But because he stopped it, it's a red card," Lennie said.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sp...ht-to-show-kewell-red-card-says-top-official/

 

[that_dood]

I've been wondering what Eddie Lennie is up to. Great ref who would shit all over the current Australian refs.

EDIT: http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport/world-cup/a/-/world-cup/7429050/handball-or-not/

Interesting article from Jonathon Cook.

 

[RoJo Junior]

To be honest, I'm more furious about the red not given to the Ghana tackle on Bresciano than the red on Kewell. The tackle by the Ghana player isn't open to interpretation. Was nowhere near the ball, it was reckless and using excessive force in a tackle from behind with studs showing. Just because it was 1 foot doesn't make it any better. The tackle was always going to achieve next to nothing, as Bresciano wasn't even facing our goal.

Meh, I suppose we should all get over it, would've been nice to progress to the next stage, obviously we weren't going to go deep into this tournament but reality is we should've won on Saturday night to give us a real chance at making it out of the group. Our chance is pretty slim atm

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

How many times does it need to be said?

Vidic only got a yellow because even though he deliberately handballed it, it wasn't going towards the net.

Kewell got a red because he stopped the ball going into the net with his arm. It doesn't matter that it wasn't deliberate or not, once the ref gave the penalty it had to be a red for Kewell. Harsh but the correct decision.

And the German handball form a header on target in the first game? Was just missed?

 

[Dagger5]

And the German handball form a header on target in the first game? Was just missed?

Referee didn't see it. Mertesacker was too close to the player that hit the ball plus he was a fair distance away from the goal, so its too hard to tell what trajectory the ball would have. A yellow card and a penalty would thus suffice.

 

[ExpectToWin]

To be a ref in this game you need big bollocks. Alot bigger ones than those tiny cherries they call testicles the AFL umps have

Why, is it because they are at risk of being subjected to a mamby pamby soccer player pretending to cry while holding up his hands in a prayer to God after doing 25 crucifix crosses on his chest after he clearly hacked an opposition player or is it because when that same mamby pamby soccer player after getting a slight touch on the shoulder (or no touch at all) dives to the ground, does 35 rolls while clutching his ankle and the left side of his head suddenly springs to a miraculous recovery once he realizes he has sucked the referee in for a free kick.

Seriously

 

[amdocher]

mamby pamby soccer player after getting a slight touch on the shoulder (or no touch at all) dives to the ground, does 35 rolls while clutching his ankle and the left side of his head suddenly springs to a miraculous recovery once he realizes he has sucked the referee in for a free kick.

Seriously

Whilst this used to be the case I think they've become more professional players and have taken some acting lessons in the off season. They haven't been springing to their feet nearly as soon or often as they used too
Also, don't be fooled into thinking this same diving at the slightest touch doesn't happen in AFL. As soon as there is a touch to the back of a forward they hit the ground like a ton of bricks.

 

[Borgsta]

How many times does it need to be said?

Vidic only got a yellow because even though he deliberately handballed it, it wasn't going towards the net.

Kewell got a red because he stopped the ball going into the net with his arm. It doesn't matter that it wasn't deliberate or not, once the ref gave the penalty it had to be a red for Kewell. Harsh but the correct decision.

You make it sound like a deliberate handball isn't a red. Vidic should have been sent off for that handball. An awful decision.