A second concussion class action has been commenced.

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Daniel Venables comes to mind.

Jordan Lewis was returned to the field after being knocked out by Harbrow in a huge hit and played the following week.

Concussions have been woefully managed at every AFL club for a long time.

WTF are you on about?

Venables was stretchered off instantly and to this day receives a wage from West Coast Eagles and is employed by the club.

The club paid for all his medical bills, kept him on the list, paid him in full in his time off, gave him free medical treatment over the time. The club paid for his uni degree as well

We recently did the same with Daniel Chick after he rubbished the club. With Daniel Chick, he has also received things such as a wage, free health care as well as a education grant which I think he uses

If Bulldogs did what we did like they should, this wouldnt be the debacle it is now

 

[GreyWind]

WTF are you on about?

Venables was stretchered off instantly and to this day receives a wage from West Coast Eagles and is employed by the club.

The club paid for all his medical bills, kept him on the list, paid him in full in his time off, gave him free medical treatment over the time. The club paid for his uni degree as well

We recently did the same with Daniel Chick after he rubbished the club. With Daniel Chick, he has also received things such as a wage, free health care as well as a education grant which I think he uses

If Bulldogs did what we did like they should, this wouldnt be the debacle it is now

Venables was also sent home after the game after being concussed for 20mins and had a seizure. He had to call himself an ambulance later that night to take him to hospital where it was found he'd have several bleeds. He's also said his recovery was botched leading to a lot of his health problems.

 

[Sentinel]

Some extremely concerning claims if Picken was kept in the dark about his health as he claims. It's difficult to understand that the club doctors would do that, but I imagine should be fairly easily proven or disproven from his medical records which should come to light when the process begins. Outside of that the general understanding and management of concussion related issues has obviously taken significant strides over the past decade or so which is no consolation for the players affected, particularly if there is an added layer of negligence behind it (as claimed but, importantly, not yet tested/proven).

It's a horrible situation for Picken and unfortunately he is not the first, nor will he be the last, to be in this boat.

 

[Taylor]

I think the unexpected outcomes from this will be players who aren't absolute stars not being offered contracts for them to voluntarily agree to enter should the player have a history of concussion. A previously concussed free agent at 22 who can't get a job in the AFL playing because of it.

 

[Mofra]

Some extremely concerning claims if Picken was kept in the dark about his health as he claims. It's difficult to understand that the club doctors would do that, but I imagine should be fairly easily proven or disproven from his medical records which should come to light when the process begins. Outside of that the general understanding and management of concussion related issues has obviously taken significant strides over the past decade or so which is no consolation for the players affected, particularly if there is an added layer of negligence behind it (as claimed but, importantly, not yet tested/proven).

It's a horrible situation for Picken and unfortunately he is not the first, nor will he be the last, to be in this boat.

I'd imagine there would be two main elements to his case:
1. Were protocols followed?
2. Were the protocols in place adequate?

There are going to be more players in the same boat with long term issues that are horrible to deal with. Venables has been mentioned, then consider Seedsman & Adams. Is the AFLPA player fund adequate to cover this?

 

[Sentinel]

I'd imagine there would be two main elements to his case:
1. Were protocols followed?
2. Were the protocols in place adequate?

There are going to be more players in the same boat with long term issues that are horrible to deal with. Venables has been mentioned, then consider Seedsman & Adams. Is the AFLPA player fund adequate to cover this?

Which will likely point to where any successful liability claim will end up (individual, club, league or all of the above).

It appears to be somewhat of a minefield for all involved.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Understatement of the century this

This is the worst act by any AFL team in memory.

What is worse then this? Someone got me a example

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Venables was also sent home after the game after being concussed for 20mins and had a seizure. He had to call himself an ambulance later that night to take him to hospital where it was found he'd have several bleeds. He's also said his recovery was botched leading to a lot of his health problems.

Which was the AFLS fault and was rectified as a result. It was the AFL doctor who sent him home at the time, not the Eagles one. Despite all that Eagles took responsibility for his issues and he is now living a good life

Still lives in W.A too

The issue of concussion is a grand one, but Pickens issue is no one has taken responsibility. The Bulldogs should take responsibility like a grown adult and not wimp it out

 

[Power Raid]

They are pretty damning claims for sure.

Personally, I tend to sit on the side that players acknowledge the risks they take when playing a contract sport. However that is on the basis that they are provided with proper medical advice, assessments and can make informed decisions.

In cases such as this (if true) where he hasn’t been provided with the level of care expected, that’s just unacceptable.

Imagine failing an ACL test and then being told we’re just going to keep playing you or even worse, not even telling the player they have torn their ACL. It just wouldn’t happen.

The bold assumes the acknowledged risk are limited to civil prosecution rather than criminal. That said a player probably doesn't want to put a director in jail, rather they will want financial outcomes to support their health needs, their loss of enjoyment of life and to look after their families.

If the AFL don't settle (or the club), the civil case gets postponed and the criminal case then advances. It has to happen like this as the player can't threaten criminal recourse as a blackmail to settle civil.......it is just a logical step.

 

[The Educator]

The bold assumes the acknowledged risk are limited to civil prosecution rather than criminal. That said a player probably doesn't want to put a director in jail, rather they will want financial outcomes to support their health needs, their loss of enjoyment of life and to look after their families.

If the AFL don't settle (or the club), the civil case gets postponed and the criminal case then advances. It has to happen like this as the player can't threaten criminal recourse as a blackmail to settle civil.......it is just a logical step.

Cripes, you're still going

 

[demondavey]

They wanted the AFL pay and lifestyle while playing but none of the risk or downside. It's sad to think what it means for the future of the game but hopefully virtual reality takes over soon

Not really. You can’t be simplistic enough to say they wanted the pay and perks, plenty of people get paid a lot of money and get protected by their employer. You’ve got a duty of care if a player is getting concussed or was getting concussed and was cleared to play.

Players may feel totally ok, yet the damage is within the head that isn’t identified or promoted and that person is given the green light to play.

 

[demondavey]

I sympathise with the affected players, knowing how debilitating the after effects of concussion can be (thankfully not first hand).

However, is there honestly a leg to stand on here from a legal sense if you consider the following very likely scenario taking place...

Player A: Gets knocked out during a game in 1995.
Team doctor, with limited knowledge of the true damage it can cause long term: 'You feel okay?'
Player A: 'Yeah, get me back out there, I'm fine'.

Unless a coach or doctor forced an unwilling player to return to the field, exactly who is retrospectively at fault for any post-concussion symptoms? Genuine question.

How long have we been able to assess for concussion and long term effects there of?

That’ll be the question; was the AFL negligent in 1995 given what knowledge was available.

 

[demondavey]

Cripes, you're still going

What he has contributed to this topic is vastly superior to your rubbish

 

[demondavey]

* me, what a bunch of ******* sooks

Yeah, tell me about it, imagine sooking when your brain is ****ed and you can’t function anymore?

Absolute soft ends.

 

[Blackhawk42]

How long have we been able to assess for concussion and long term effects there of?

That’ll be the question; was the AFL negligent in 1995 given what knowledge was available.

As recent as 2011 (maybe even later) you could still return to the field of play after being knocked out and stretchered off.

The response felt quite swift at the time when players were being subbed out after showing any sign of concussion.

Liam Picken is a more unique case because his grievances are confined to the era of advanced intervention.

An interesting example in the AFL's favour may be Clay Smith. Clay ruptured his ACL during a game but convinced the doctors to allow him back on the field. His career ended prematurely as his knees just struggled to deal with the amount of trauma they'd been through.

Can he (or will he) sue the AFL and the Western Bulldogs if knee troubles affect his quality of life? Or is a precedent being set that this can only be confined to head injuries? If so, why?

 

[jim boy]

Can he (or will he) sue the AFL and the Western Bulldogs if knee troubles affect his quality of life?

I think that would be covered under work cover. Were the bulldogs at fault here? Cant really tell given the evidence presented. Medicine isn't an exact science, it's about weighing up probability and then assessing the risk. If we wanted zero risk of further injury, then no player would ever take the field, because sometimes the long odds come in. Then there would be the question of whether Smith actually gave the doctors a full and frank assessment of what he was feeling - doctors often have only the patient's words to go on. And if the doctors fully explained the risk in a way that Smith understood and Smith went back on the field understanding the risks, then he has a great deal of the blame to share. Concussion is different though - you can't really tell whether the patient does understand the risk because of the nature of concussion itself, so there is a higher onus on the health carers to be more conservative.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Call me cynical but is this a 25M ten year program to help mitigate AFL culpability and not actually about improving the welfare of the players. They are looking to establish a control study group of brains from people who have not played footy.( this part is not in article but was the ABC TV story on news)

Landmark AFL concussion class action kicks off as league announces $25m study of long-term health impacts

Former Geelong star Max Rooke will be lead plaintiff in a landmark lawsuit against the AFL brought by players who claim to have been permanently damaged by concussions and other head knocks.

www.abc.net.au

 

[The 747]

Call me cynical but is this a 25M ten year program to help mitigate AFL culpability and not actually about improving the welfare of the players. They are looking to establish a control study group of brains from people who have not played footy.( this part is not in article but was the ABC TV story on news)

Landmark AFL concussion class action kicks off as league announces $25m study of long-term health impacts

Former Geelong star Max Rooke will be lead plaintiff in a landmark lawsuit against the AFL brought by players who claim to have been permanently damaged by concussions and other head knocks.

www.abc.net.au

They already had a study and managed to lose the information. They also took their main advice from a now discredited academic that argued concussion was overblown. As I posted earlier this has got legs, it will cost the AFL a whack.

 

[Sphynx]

And these 60 have ruined the sport forever more….

Well done all

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Just shut down the sport - then we can all hold daisy's and sing hymns together

 

[Lia]

Former Cat Rooke to lead concussion class action against AFL in Supreme Court

Dual Geelong premiership player Max Rooke is the lead plaintiff in a landmark class action against the AFL lodged in the Supreme Court of Victoria, seeking compensation for alleged damage to former players due to concussion.

www.theage.com.au

Not sure what to feel here. West Coast have had Dean Kemp and Daniel Venables for example who have suffered serious damage from concussions or repeated concussions that were obviously as a result of incidents during their AFL careers, as such they should receive support. However, this article suggests that Max Rooke

Max Rooke

Age

42

Ht

189cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.8

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

5.8

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.8

4star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

12.0

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

4.6

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.6

4star

G

0.2

3star

was playing local football as late as 2021 with some Geelong premiership teammates, over a decade after his AFL retirement. Why would you do that?

 

[The 747]

And these 60 have ruined the sport forever more….

Well done all

Odd take. Assuming their claims are true - which is what is tested in court - they should STFU and suffer?

 

[Slartibartfast]

And these 60 have ruined the sport forever more….

Well done all

How dare these players take away the sport as we know it just for the sake of their own health !!

This is why OH&S is such a big issue in any business. It is just now the AFL’s hand is being forced after years of she’ll be right.

As I said earlier these law suits have the potential to change the fabric of the game. As a fan if that is what it takes top ensure players health so be it.

 

[The 747]

Former Cat Rooke to lead concussion class action against AFL in Supreme Court

Dual Geelong premiership player Max Rooke is the lead plaintiff in a landmark class action against the AFL lodged in the Supreme Court of Victoria, seeking compensation for alleged damage to former players due to concussion.

www.theage.com.au

Not sure what to feel here. West Coast have had Dean Kemp and Daniel Venables for example who have suffered serious damage from concussions or repeated concussions that were obviously as a result of incidents during their AFL careers, as such they should receive support. However, this article suggests that Max Rooke was playing local football as late as 2021 with some Geelong premiership teammates, over a decade after his AFL retirement. Why would you do that?

That will be tested in court. But perhaps he was told he was fine to keep playing local footy?

 

[Blackhawk42]

How dare these players take away the sport as we know it just for the sake of their own health !!

This is why OH&S is such a big issue in any business. It is just now the AFL’s hand is being forced after years of she’ll be right.

As I said earlier these law suits have the potential to change the fabric of the game. As a fan if that is what it takes top ensure players health so be it.

But is it years of 'she'll be right'?

The AFL has been guilty of plenty of shady practices over the journey, but in this space they have appeared to follow the science and protocol as it's arisen.

If this was about strengthening the current protocols or creating a transition period for players from playing career to outside life who have shown any previous symptoms of concussion in their careers then I applaud it.

If it's ex-players looking for a payday, some of which continue to play at a local level where there is less access to decent physios on gameday should a serious injury occur, then I don't know why more people aren't questioning it.