A second concussion class action has been commenced.

[Power Raid]

At the extreme level - does anyone know what a sport like boxing does where nearly every event ends in concussion? I get the boxers aren't employees, but the organisations running the sport surely would have advanced plans for what would presumably be a high prevalence of post concussion problems?
It seems an unsolvable problem, in that you can't eliminate it from the game regardless of how many rules you put in to protect the head, in a contact sport with tackling the head will get injured somehow. So at a simplistic level the answer is by all means try and promote the message of the head being sacred but to accept you can't eliminate it, and just have a no fault compensation scheme - even if that will be rorted to some extent as all no fault compo schemes are, it will still be easiest path. The problem is the message that sends to little Jack and Jill's parents that the sport is inherently dangerous, and future participation.
As I said, an unsolvable problem. I assume one day we'll just be watching computer generated simulations and AI AFL. People are falling in love with bots already, maybe even I could overcome ny scepticism and learn to love a virtual Michael Walters one day.

there would be little doubt the promoter wouldn't be considered the "employer" for the purpose outlined and thus carries civil and criminal liability

further the venue owner is also responsible for OH&S on the property and thus carries civil liability


the issue of the idea that there can be "a no fault compensation scheme" is one can sign away issues governed by criminal law. Further you can't even get insurance to cover breaching criminal law.



I appreciate people don't like this and thus the negative comments and dislikes to my posts. but the concept of criminal recourse in the workplace regarding death and or serious injury is not well understood. There is no "shared responsibility, no chance of "no fault compensation schemes", no insurance and no requirement of "act of one's own folly".

As with all of these things the laws become tighter over time and legal precedence will bring more situations such as boxing under the umbrella.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Also expect more penalties to be taken against those who put themselves in danger, eg running backwards into a pack.

i'd give the game away if it came too that.

 

[jim boy]

i'd give the game away if it came too that.

That could come very quickly, hope you haven't splurged out on a membership yet. You want to follow the Emma Grant case very closely. She is sueing Collingwood as they let her commence training before she had fully recovered from concussion. If she wins, the principle will be that governing bodies need to have controls in place to prevent players from injuring themselves, even though they were a full party to the action. That means that if a player backs into a pack and gets a serious concussion, then they will be able to sue the AFL as they had no controls in place for putting themselves in harm's way, such as making it illegal.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

That could come very quickly, hope you haven't splurged out on a membership yet. You want to follow the Emma Grant case very closely. She is sueing Collingwood as they let her commence training before she had fully recovered from concussion. If she wins, the principle will be that governing bodies need to have controls in place to prevent players from injuring themselves, even though they were a full party to the action. That means that if a player backs into a pack and gets a serious concussion, then they will be able to sue the AFL as they had no controls in place for putting themselves in harm's way, such as making it illegal.

Then the afl and any contact sport will cease too exist.

 

[Slartibartfast]

That could come very quickly, hope you haven't splurged out on a membership yet. You want to follow the Emma Grant case very closely. She is sueing Collingwood as they let her commence training before she had fully recovered from concussion. If she wins, the principle will be that governing bodies need to have controls in place to prevent players from injuring themselves, even though they were a full party to the action. That means that if a player backs into a pack and gets a serious concussion, then they will be able to sue the AFL as they had no controls in place for putting themselves in harm's way, such as making it illegal.

the implications of these legal cases could change the whole fabric of the game.

 

[Power Raid]

the implications of these legal cases could change the whole fabric of the game.

it can and probably will as a result of the following:

it will change the way risks are identified:
the way risks are measured in probability (likely to probable)
the risk of outcome of concussion (medium to serious)

then the mitigation policies to be implemented:
ban certain actions such as bumps, sling tackles, head high contact, ducking and I dare say jumping dangerously will follow
the assessment by doctors
regular monitoring of brain
time out / mandatory rest periods
training

the implementation of controls to monitor adherence to mitigation policies:
electronic swipe cards to access training facilities, the ground and training equipment (lock people out)
periodic, potentially daily, mental health reporting
automation and electronic monitoring to identify incidents where concussion was possible
doctors reviewing players during and post training and games
etc etc

 

[Rob]

How much of this falls on the clubs? The AFL has culpability, but the clubs are the ones that put the players on the field.

 

[Power Raid]

How much of this falls on the clubs? The AFL has culpability, but the clubs are the ones that put the players on the field.

I was of the understanding the AFL gets away with restraint of trade concepts by having players playing for the league

According to AFL medico Dr Peter Harcourt:

"under individual contracts, all players are contracted to the league as opposed to the clubs".

If this is indeed the case, who is regarded by the law as their employer?

Further one sues the deepest pockets

 

[Rob]

I was of the understanding the AFL gets away with restraint of trade concepts by having players playing for the league

As I understand it, the players sign contracts with the league as a signatory (as well as the club), but they're still employees of clubs. Financial statements for clubs show payments to employees, AFL financial statements show payments to clubs.

 

[jim boy]

it will change the way risks are identified:
the way risks are measured in probability (likely to probable)
the risk of outcome of concussion (medium to serious)

Certainly a risk based approach to the way the game is played will ingrain itself, especially given the pedigree of the AFL executive - do you work in GRC?

 

[Power Raid]

Certainly a risk based approach to the way the game is played will ingrain itself, especially given the pedigree of the AFL executive - do you work in GRC?

I run mining companies and investment funds

We obviously get drilled by lawyers, the board, risk, compliance and ESG all the time

 

[jim boy]

I run mining companies and investment funds

We obviously get drilled by lawyers, the board, risk, compliance and ESG all the time

Nice - well to you use they will certainly mitigate, mitigate to a point and transfer the residual

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

Really feel for Picken if this is the case.

If these claims are true, I think the Dogs and their medical staff would have a lot to answer for as medical professionals.

“Picken’s lawyers claimed he returned several irregular cognitive test results during his career but was not alerted to the fact.

Principal lawyer at National Compensation Lawyers, Michael Tanner told The Age Picken was unaware of the extent of his head injuries.

“From Liam’s perspective, he was never made aware of his failings of any cognitive assessment he ever underwent. Further to that, he did not necessarily understand the full extent of his injuries or his symptoms,” Tanner said.

“What he did was voice his concerns about his symptoms. The medical advice given to him at the time was (he was) still fit to play.”

‘Greatly affected by it all’: Dogs favourite Liam Picken to sue AFL, club and doctors over concussions

‘Greatly affected by it all’: Dogs favourite to sue AFL, club and doctors over concussions

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[Power Raid]

Really feel for Picken if this is the case.

If these claims are true, I think the Dogs and their medical staff would have a lot to answer for as medical professionals.

“Picken’s lawyers claimed he returned several irregular cognitive test results during his career but was not alerted to the fact.

Principal lawyer at National Compensation Lawyers, Michael Tanner told The Age Picken was unaware of the extent of his head injuries.

“From Liam’s perspective, he was never made aware of his failings of any cognitive assessment he ever underwent. Further to that, he did not necessarily understand the full extent of his injuries or his symptoms,” Tanner said.

“What he did was voice his concerns about his symptoms. The medical advice given to him at the time was (he was) still fit to play.”

‘Greatly affected by it all’: Dogs favourite Liam Picken to sue AFL, club and doctors over concussions

‘Greatly affected by it all’: Dogs favourite to sue AFL, club and doctors over concussions

www.foxsports.com.au

this is exactly the type of thing you don't want to hear

imagine trading some ones health for entertainment

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

this is exactly the type of thing you don't want to hear

imagine trading some ones health for entertainment

They are pretty damning claims for sure.

Personally, I tend to sit on the side that players acknowledge the risks they take when playing a contract sport. However that is on the basis that they are provided with proper medical advice, assessments and can make informed decisions.

In cases such as this (if true) where he hasn’t been provided with the level of care expected, that’s just unacceptable.

Imagine failing an ACL test and then being told we’re just going to keep playing you or even worse, not even telling the player they have torn their ACL. It just wouldn’t happen.

 

[The 747]

I reckon this has got legs, more will come out about taking risks with player's health and the AFL playing down the risk of concussion.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

The fact its come to a court case is basically perverse at this stage

Western Bulldogs have absolutely no shame and integrity in any of this

Easily the worst act by a club in my lifetime

 

[RUNVS]

Really feel for Picken if this is the case.

If these claims are true, I think the Dogs and their medical staff would have a lot to answer for as medical professionals.

“Picken’s lawyers claimed he returned several irregular cognitive test results during his career but was not alerted to the fact.

Principal lawyer at National Compensation Lawyers, Michael Tanner told The Age Picken was unaware of the extent of his head injuries.

“From Liam’s perspective, he was never made aware of his failings of any cognitive assessment he ever underwent. Further to that, he did not necessarily understand the full extent of his injuries or his symptoms,” Tanner said.

“What he did was voice his concerns about his symptoms. The medical advice given to him at the time was (he was) still fit to play.”

‘Greatly affected by it all’: Dogs favourite Liam Picken to sue AFL, club and doctors over concussions

‘Greatly affected by it all’: Dogs favourite to sue AFL, club and doctors over concussions

www.foxsports.com.au

I suspect a few clubs did something similar to this as well but that does not excuse it. Picken has every right to sue given this is the rest of his life we are talking about and ultimately as much as we all want our teams to win football is just a game, it is just entertainment. No one should be forced to ruin their life for it.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

I suspect a few clubs did something similar to this as well but that does not excuse it. Picken has every right to sue given this is the rest of his life we are talking about and ultimately as much as we all want our teams to win football is just a game, it is just entertainment. No one should be forced to ruin their life for it.

Understatement of the century this

This is the worst act by any AFL team in memory.

What is worse then this? Someone got me a example

 

[Gough]

I suspect a few clubs did something similar to this as well but that does not excuse it. Picken has every right to sue given this is the rest of his life we are talking about and ultimately as much as we all want our teams to win football is just a game, it is just entertainment. No one should be forced to ruin their life for it.

Perhaps each club should have to have an independent doctor paid for the by the league to stop the chances of this sort of thing occurring again.

 

[RUNVS]

Understatement of the century this

This is the worst act by any AFL team in memory.

What is worse then this? Someone got me a example

I could be wrong but wasn't there a culture of sexual abuse of one of the Victorian clubs in the 60's uncovered a few years ago, where the U18 players would be targeted?

 

[RUNVS]

Perhaps each club should have to have an independent doctor paid for the by the league to stop the chances of this sort of thing occurring again.

Completely agree there. I don't trust the clubs to do what is best for the player and not the team.

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

I suspect a few clubs did something similar to this as well but that does not excuse it. Picken has every right to sue given this is the rest of his life we are talking about and ultimately as much as we all want our teams to win football is just a game, it is just entertainment. No one should be forced to ruin their life for it.

Absolutely. It’s just astounding the idea that a doctor wouldn’t properly inform a patient of their health. Regardless of if it’s a sporting club, their responsibility is the welfare of the player as a doctor and not the club itself.

These are the instances that need to be called out, addressed and compensated if true.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Completely agree there. I don't trust the clubs to do what is best for the player and not the team.

NRL are doing this and on the first use of it they had a whinge trying to say the doctor was trying to influence the game

A absurd take really

 

[GreyWind]

Understatement of the century this

This is the worst act by any AFL team in memory.

What is worse then this? Someone got me a example

Daniel Venables comes to mind.

Jordan Lewis was returned to the field after being knocked out by Harbrow in a huge hit and played the following week.

Concussions have been woefully managed at every AFL club for a long time.