Expansion A third team in Queensland? AFL acknowledges QLD3 as a 20th licence option

[catters05]

Maybe the AFL sells off marvel to developers and focuses on the smaller size egate stadium to support the smaller Vic clubs with more smaller interstate clubs coming into the competition like Tasmania and Canberra and also gets more games at the G.

FNQ and NT are not the markets right now for the AFL, host a couple more games in each to spread the game, but either would end up being a bit of a financial mess imo.

As posted above, once the Lions are filling up the new stadium and the Suns are filling up an upgraded Carrara then a third qld team could be looked at, but I wouldn’t be comparing the Sunshine Coast with the Gold Coast.

Canberra is a no brainer and the AFL should be getting on the front foot about it.

 

[Purple Suit]

Yeah, Joondalup Falcons and East Perth Royals, or they could be new franchises i.e. North Perth Miners, East Perth Sharks.

I think when WA3 is created it's important to be very clear that they aren't just a WAFL club turned into an AFL like Port were. It probably needs to be called Perth but maybe take elements of all Perth named teams or a blend without clashing too hard with existing AFL teams. Maybe aligning 4-5 WAFL clubs with them for a few years would help where they get basically free access to any juniors or seniors outside of NGA's already aligned.

 

[Seeds]

I think when WA3 is created it's important to be very clear that they aren't just a WAFL club turned into an AFL like Port were. It probably needs to be called Perth but maybe take elements of all Perth named teams or a blend without clashing too hard with existing AFL teams. Maybe aligning 4-5 WAFL clubs with them for a few years would help where they get basically free access to any juniors or seniors outside of NGA's already aligned.

But west coast is perth. Surely we cant have two teams effectively from the same location.

 

[Purple Suit]

But west coast is perth. Surely we cant have two teams effectively from the same location.

West Coast isn't Perth, it's where ever that is. They made their bed with the name, I'm sure losing a few supporters isn't going to hurt them if the new team comes in and targets the 20,000 people on their waiting list straight away.

Go too small and you alienate potential fans. Go to broad and you don't have an identity unless you're the 1st team, which is the perfect set-up. If Tassie was big enough for 3 teams in the future when the AFL is some massive 50 team beast, I'm sure Hobart and Launceston would be the new teams.

 

[Coolangatta]

West Coast isn't Perth, it's where ever that is. They made their bed with the name, I'm sure losing a few supporters isn't going to hurt them if the new team comes in and targets the 20,000 people on their waiting list straight away.

Go too small and you alienate potential fans. Go to broad and you don't have an identity unless you're the 1st team, which is the perfect set-up. If Tassie was big enough for 3 teams in the future when the AFL is some massive 50 team beast, I'm sure Hobart and Launceston would be the new teams.

Nah, I think of the AFL does go in the way of expanding every 15-20 years and Tasmania 2 is part of the agenda, it’d be a Launceston based club: North Tasmania Brewers (credit to Cunnington Cartel).

Tassie Devils would just play all their home games in Hobart and become the defacto Hobart team. It could still work as the North will see the Devils as more of a Hobart centric team anyway.

 

[Coolangatta]

I think when WA3 is created it's important to be very clear that they aren't just a WAFL club turned into an AFL like Port were. It probably needs to be called Perth but maybe take elements of all Perth named teams or a blend without clashing too hard with existing AFL teams. Maybe aligning 4-5 WAFL clubs with them for a few years would help where they get basically free access to any juniors or seniors outside of NGA's already aligned.

Perth Hellcrest: Hell for Demons, crest for Royals, with a Falcon on the crest.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Nah, I think of the AFL does go in the way of expanding every 15-20 years and Tasmania 2 is part of the agenda, it’d be a Launceston based club: North Tasmania Brewers (credit to Cunnington Cartel).

Tassie Devils would just play all their home games in Hobart and become the defacto Hobart team. It could still work as the North will see the Devils as more of a Hobart centric team anyway.

Thanks in large part to the stadium, essentially forcing only the shit games to be played in the north.

 

[Canberra Pear]

West Coast isn't Perth, it's where ever that is. They made their bed with the name, I'm sure losing a few supporters isn't going to hurt them if the new team comes in and targets the 20,000 people on their waiting list straight away.

In all sincerety, would you happen to know a link for that number?

I tried searching. Pre-Optus numbers looked similar, but the post Optus numbers I can find have been about 9k.

 

[Gibbke]

There won't be two Tasmanian sides.

 

[Purple Suit]

In all sincerety, would you happen to know a link for that number?

I tried searching. Pre-Optus numbers looked similar, but the post Optus numbers I can find have been about 9k.

I had a Brother in law who was 15k in the cue and had been on it for years. Probably pre COVID though so no idea what they are on now but they are pulling huge profits from a similar attendance to Freo. 100k members for 55k they can reserve at the stadium with 5k general admin & opposition members.

It’s only $55 for that membership since it’s just a yearly cue. Not the $500-$1000 plus they charge for a standard yearly 11 game membership in Perth. Melbourne teams are as low as $250 a year for general admin.

Supply and Demand means we pay more. WA is the only state also funding grass roots while the AFL spend saved funds on expansion into other markets.

 

[GC2015]

The GC is set to explode for exactly this reason in a number of areas. I lived there 1996-2000, and the population when I turned up was 220k. It still had the 5 town mentality, and as I was leaving you could see the united GCCC signs in blue and gold. I stood on the hill overlooking Robina in 1996, just a sea of cleared subdivisions without a house in sight, but a huge shopping mall fully completed right in the middle of it, all empty except for two brand new businesses and a lot of tumbleweed. I met two people the entire time who were actually born on the GC. Coolangatta in the 2001 census was shown to have a population with an average age of 60! And while all this transience was going on, the Bears, Seagulls/Chargers, baseball, basketball, etc were all playing onfield and failing off field, because the place and more accurately the suits all saw themselves as big game players and had this utterly wanky corporate mentality, everyone here to make a quick buck...plastic everywhere from business to boob jobs...

Now, those who stayed have kids and they live in Australia's 5th biggest city, which will eventually surpass a couple of capitals and maybe merge with Brisbane and become a mega city, NY style. If they were to put a BBL franchise in that place, it would become the destination team in no time. RL and AFL...it's inevitable that they will shed the bullshit that has been GC sport for decades and get serious, and then capitalise on the golden resources they have sitting right there. And then it's take two on the lower sports...basketball will be back, who knows what RU will do, soccer as long as Clive Palmer is banned...these days it's assumed NSW and Vic will get two franchises and the rest one every time they want to start something up, but Qld will be an automatic two once the GC is legit...

And the NRL and AFL have known this for years, sitting on a mining boom they'll never give up. I'd imagine we've seen the last of the "scrap GC" comments...

That's a pretty accurate description of the Gold Coast. It was very much a small regional town full of tourism ventures / gimmicks and retirees in the 1980s. The population in 1990 was approximately 250k and then we saw the first real boom of southern migration moving to the GC in the 90s. By the time the year 2000 rolled around, the population had grown to just under 400k - so the city essentially doubled in size over the period of a decade and it was mostly due to Melburnians and Sydneysiders moving here. As time went on, the five town mentality diminished and it began to be seen as one whole city. The southerners that moved here in the 1990s already had their own AFL / NRL affiliations and were unwilling to adopt the local team/s as their own so pro teams continued to struggle for support over that duration and, inevitably, they all folded.

However, the southerners who moved here in the 1990s / early 2000s who decided to stay and raise kids here were going to have a huge influence on what we're seeing now. Their kids were either born here or spent most of their childhood here and didn't/don't feel the same level of affiliation to their parents' teams based down south. By 2010 the GC population had gone well north of 500k and that generation of young people who grew up on the Gold Coast offered an opportunity for strong levels of support if one of the pro teams could get it right. Unfortunately, neither the Titans or Suns took advantage of that opportunity in the 2010s when it was really up for grabs and a generation of genuine born / raised Gold Coasters are most likely lost as a result.

Now, in 2025, those Gold Coasters who were born here / moved here as kids in the 1990s / early 2000s have kids of their own and are looking for activities to get them involved in. At the grassroots level, the AFL / Suns are doing a fantastic job of drawing Gold Coast kids into the game and that's expressing itself through the recent academy graduates + successes at the VFL level with Southport & Suns reserves as well as the GC teams in state league QAFL level. The last step is for the Suns to experience on field success and really cultivate a culture of support for the local team within the Gold Coast community because a significant portion of people under the age of 40 living on the GC these days were either born or raised here and there's definitely a level of pride in the city that didn't exist in the past. I'm certain you will see that pride come out once a team gives the community a reason to be proud of them and we'll see much bigger crowds showing up to games here.

The next 5-10 years are going to dispel a lot of preconceived notions about the Gold Coast and I really think we're going to see the Gold Coast community embrace the Suns as a team that represents them in a way that they can be proud of. The bonus is we're going to see a lot of Gold Coasters playing for the Suns over the next decade and that's huge in itself in terms of growing the game here because getting to the AFL looks achievable for these kids and those who dream of playing for the Suns one day will be afforded that opportunity if they're good enough. Gold Coast junior Dayne Zorko has talked in the past about how unattainable an AFL career seemed for a kid from the Gold Coast when he was coming through in the late 2000s / early 2010s and that issue appears to have been addressed.

Don't underestimate the strong foundations that have been set up at the grassroots level on the Gold Coast. As you said, the Gold Coast is ready to explode and the last piece of the puzzle is the Suns having sustained on field success.

 

[Canberra Pear]

I had a Brother in law who was 15k in the cue and had been on it for years. Probably pre COVID though so no idea what they are on now but they are pulling huge profits from a similar attendance to Freo.

Cheers. From what I could find trawling through old forums, the queue has definitely dropped post Optus.

Also, condolences for your BIL. My wife's family are Crows supporters, so I understand your pain.

Would you have any insight to flexi-memberships? From what I've read, there's lot of people who have graduated on the waiting list to a flexi-membership, meaning three or five games, but are still in line for a larger membership. Are those people still counted on the list?

 

[Roylion]

Why on earth do people suggest both a merger and relocation for the same clubs? Not even one of those things is going to happen, let alone both.

Yep. It's complete fantasy.

 

[Seeds]

Nah, I think of the AFL does go in the way of expanding every 15-20 years and Tasmania 2 is part of the agenda, it’d be a Launceston based club: North Tasmania Brewers (credit to Cunnington Cartel).

Tassie Devils would just play all their home games in Hobart and become the defacto Hobart team. It could still work as the North will see the Devils as more of a Hobart centric team anyway.

There is no tasmania 2 ever on the agenda. Tasmania struggles to have the demographics to support one team. Launcestons population is 30 percent smaller than bendigos. It would make more demographic sense to have 5 teams from western australia before you would even start considering a second tassie team.

 

[Coolangatta]

There is no tasmania 2 ever on the agenda. Tasmania struggles to have the demographics to support one team. Launcestons population is 30 percent smaller than bendigos. It would make more demographic sense to have 5 teams from western australia before you would even start considering a second tassie team.

Yeah, I don’t think there’ll ever be, either.

It should be Canberra team 20 then target new, unrepresented cities after that.

Sunshine Coast as Canberra Pear said is probably a good idea as the NRL will have other targets and I can’t see Redcliffe moving there permanently just like I can’t see the Giants relocating to Canberra. So, they could have a leg up as the only team in town.

Although, the AFL might decide Brisbane 2 would be lower risk because of the significantly larger population.

Either of those two seems like the logical target for team 21 and if for whatever reason they can’t get Auckland and Newcastle up and running as secondary markets then that’s where WA3 would come in handy to even things up.

By that stage the South West will probably have enough people to support a team, especially if it’s easier to get there from Perth in 25-30 years from now.

 

[jannissary]

considering the current games attendance for tasmania i’d be surprised if there’s calls for another team in 30 years down there. may change when the devils join but as it stands it’d be unlikely to be a sound “investment”

 

[GenericUsername202]

Tasmania are not getting 2 teams. Let's be honest, they're only given a team because it's a romantic idea. Not because it's a financially viable proposition. The growth is non existence there, it's outside the 5 metro tv ratings market zone (so advertisers will be less likely to support them) and the conditions there are awful to play football during the winter months, which is why AFL are insisting on a roof. the only thing worse than a second tasmania team would be a darwin team, because even if you ignore the terrible player retention issue and the lack of growth and small crowds, the conditions there are unplayable for an AFL season. Canberra, a NQLD team and a WA team are really the only viable options here. Although, i would imagine West Coast and fremantle will resist another WA team, because it would only harm them and it would cause a dip in their crowd figures. Canberra seems the obvious one, but i would move GWS there because i simply think the west sydney experiment failed. A new QLD team would only make sense after the olympics as i think the lions still need to a grow a lot before another team is placed here.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Canberra seems the obvious one, but i would move GWS there because i simply think the west sydney experiment failed.

The Giants haven't failed in Western Sydney. They've been holding their own with one arm tied behind their back.

Giving Canberra a new team of its own will actually free up the Giants to put all their efforts in Sydney.

It's a win-win.

 

[Coolangatta]

Tasmania are not getting 2 teams. Let's be honest, they're only given a team because it's a romantic idea. Not because it's a financially viable proposition. The growth is non existence there, it's outside the 5 metro tv ratings market zone (so advertisers will be less likely to support them) and the conditions there are awful to play football during the winter months, which is why AFL are insisting on a roof. the only thing worse than a second tasmania team would be a darwin team, because even if you ignore the terrible player retention issue and the lack of growth and small crowds, the conditions there are unplayable for an AFL season. Canberra, a NQLD team and a WA team are really the only viable options here. Although, i would imagine West Coast and fremantle will resist another WA team, because it would only harm them and it would cause a dip in their crowd figures. Canberra seems the obvious one, but i would move GWS there because i simply think the west sydney experiment failed. A new QLD team would only make sense after the olympics as i think the lions still need to a grow a lot before another team is placed here.

I don’t think player retention would be as big of a problem for the NT as some say it would be. There’s so much talent up there that they wouldn’t be reliant on players from other parts of the country much IMO.

The problems to me are the tiny population, staff and coaching retention to develop the talent properly, and of course, the playing conditions.

I still don’t think they should ever give up on the NT. I’d like to see Greater Darwin triple in population and then give it serious consideration. But how long’s that gonna take, if ever?

Meanwhile, let’s get Canberra in the comp.

You said yourself Brisbane 2/Sunny Coast is too soon which also rules out NQLD and WA power brokers don’t want WA3 so by process of elimination it’s gotta be ACT surely.

 

[Bjo187]

I don’t think player retention would be as big of a problem for the NT as some say it would be. There’s so much talent up there that they wouldn’t be reliant on players from other parts of the country much IMO.

The problems to me are the tiny population, staff and coaching retention to develop the talent properly, and of course, the playing conditions.

I still don’t think they should ever give up on the NT. I’d like to see Greater Darwin triple in population and then give it serious consideration. But how long’s that gonna take, if ever?

Meanwhile, let’s get Canberra in the comp.

You said yourself Brisbane 2/Sunny Coast is too soon which also rules out NQLD and WA power brokers don’t want WA3 so by process of elimination it’s gotta be ACT surely.

Interesting the games in Darwin are pretty fun to watch, they're really high scoring for some reason. I'm not sure why, coz when they use to play in cairns it was a terrible spectacle.

There is a lot of talent in the n.t but I dunno if the level of professionalism could cut it for AFL level.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

It probably wouldn’t work but it’s the only remaining all VIC merger that could.

I'm a little surprised the smaller clubs didn't make more of an effort to merge with Melbourne back in the day. It would have give them more home games at the MCG.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I think when WA3 is created it's important to be very clear that they aren't just a WAFL club turned into an AFL like Port were. It probably needs to be called Perth but maybe take elements of all Perth named teams or a blend without clashing too hard with existing AFL teams. Maybe aligning 4-5 WAFL clubs with them for a few years would help where they get basically free access to any juniors or seniors outside of NGA's already aligned.

Except there is obviously already a club called Perth (don't know why they weren't just called Victoria Park like they were for a brief period in the 30s, but that's the name). If the team is based in Joondalup, I don't see a reason to not call it Joondalup or perhaps North Perth (yes, I know there's a suburb called North Perth that's a long way from Joondalup, but who cares).

 

[Purple Suit]

Except there is obviously already a club called Perth (don't know why they weren't just called Victoria Park like they were for a brief period in the 30s, but that's the name). If the team is based in Joondalup, I don't see a reason to not call it Joondalup or perhaps North Perth (yes, I know there's a suburb called North Perth that's a long way from Joondalup, but who cares).

There’s three WAFL teams with Perth in their name. It won’t matter.

The AFL has four teams with the State Capital represented. I recon WA3 is the perfect time to make it 5.

 

[Coolangatta]

Except there is obviously already a club called Perth (don't know why they weren't just called Victoria Park like they were for a brief period in the 30s, but that's the name). If the team is based in Joondalup, I don't see a reason to not call it Joondalup or perhaps North Perth (yes, I know there's a suburb called North Perth that's a long way from Joondalup, but who cares).

North Perth Sharks is boring but safe. I can’t imagine the club not gaining support over time.

Fixture their home games against the two WA clubs, the big six Vic clubs, and if there’s concerns they can’t draw 30k at Optus against the other clubs, play 2-3 games at an upgraded Arena Joondalup. I don’t think the locals are going to care they aren’t called Joondalup if they actually play a few games there.

All that said, this is all if for whatever reason the AFL pass on Canberra as the 20th club which they very well might because they’re prone to stupidity.

Edit: I do think this 3rd WA club would draw 30k or more at home against the Eagles, Dockers, Pies, Blues, Bombers, Hawks, Tigers and Cats. That’s 8/11.

They might get 30k or more against North as well because of their following here. So you’d be potentially looking at 2-3 Arena Joondalup games to cover the smaller clubs.

That said, I think the WAFC wants more than 30k per game.

 

[Bjo187]

Ridiculous there is not a team called Perth coz a second division team has that name. Surely there are work arounds, they play in a different competition. Just have their name online etc as Perthsharksfc.com.au or something.