Abortion

BEaston

Hungry
Oct 9, 2013
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Where did I say it was ffs?
Why are you equating them then you dufus.

To answer your original question, the difference is one is a government department. Which apparently you already knew, which makes your original question redundant. Do you see how stupid it looks when you ask a question that you then say you already knew the answer to?
 

ABSOLUTE MADMAN

Club Legend
Nov 8, 2016
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I am 100 percent pro abortion.

My personal belief is that the baby doesn't have a right to life until it is born. Until then it is still a part of the mother.

I'm not saying that that I am right or wrong but it's none of my business what people do with their bodies.
Someone kicks a heavily pregnant woman in the stomach resulting in the death of the unborn child. Do you support only a standard assault charge applying in this situation?
 

cartwright

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 7, 2007
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If she turned up to a protest wearing her employers gear etc then maybe yes.
Also we don't know the conditions of her employment, there could be clauses in her contract, or she could be casual, etc.
You think there could be conditions in her contract that one cannot criticise, or in this case "embarrass" the government?

I don't think so.
 

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demontim27

Cancelled
May 27, 2018
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there is an element of not being an idiot on social media... that is why a lot of people have to put that little "views are my own" clause in.... but that is the reason she was sacked. Not warned, not reprimanded -- sacked.
While I agree with her view, if your role is government relations, criticising the government on social media would be a pretty big breach of your role.
 

MacMum

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 6, 2007
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It's not my place to say, I have no right to force my beliefs on to someone else and if that's what they want to do, that's their decision. They have to live with the impact of that decision.
At 40 weeks though I think the only reason there would be an abortion is because there is an imminent danger to the mother.



Personally I don't want kids, I'm on birth control and always use protection. If I was to fall pregnant I would go straight to the Abortion clinic because I shouldn't have to be stuck with the responsibility of raising something I did everything to stop in the first place.
At forty weeks you are not aborting a fetus , you are murdering a full term baby.

I'm not against abortion, but at 40 weeks is a whole different scenario, and no doctor would kill a newborn full term baby. If the baby was posing a danger to the mother, the baby would be induced. If she doesn't want it at that age, then she can put it up for adoption.
 

Todman

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 7, 2004
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Dear Angela,

There used to be three clinics in Tasmania the performed abortions but alas they have all closed down because of economic reasons. I guess through lack of demand. The fact you were silly enough not to take responsibility for your birth control, that required you to spend a couple of hundred bucks to rectify the problem doesn't allow you to breach the purpose of your employment.

You now have publicity so have you set yourself up as a political operative for the next federal election.
I wonder if you got pregnant on purpose for your own nihilistic means.

Todman
 

AM

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 18, 2006
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Dear Angela,

There used to be three clinics in Tasmania the performed abortions but alas they have all closed down because of economic reasons. I guess through lack of demand. The fact you were silly enough not to take responsibility for your birth control, that required you to spend a couple of hundred bucks to rectify the problem doesn't allow you to breach the purpose of your employment.

You now have publicity so have you set yourself up as a political operative for the next federal election.
I wonder if you got pregnant on purpose for your own nihilistic means.

Todman
Dear Todman.

Perhaps the reason Ms Williamson had to travel to Melbourne was because the reactionaries have wilfully made access to termination extremely difficult.

Abortions are only provided in the Tasmanian public health system in extraordinary circumstances – for example, in cases of foetal abnormality or to save the life of a pregnant woman or to prevent her serious physical injury
Ms Williamson was expressing a personal opinion on social media. She is not a public servant and on the available evidence has no work contract that precludes her acting in this way. And it appears on the available evidence she was not accorded procedural fairness.

While I don’t quite know why she’d want to work for a decrepit organisation led by a union basher and which has become a laughing stock she does and hopefully that will be seen to be her right.

I sometimes wish Chief had a pickle of the week/month award. Your last sentence would certainly qualify you.
 

ShanDog

Super Moderator
Aug 12, 2012
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I don't know or care what Williamson's stance on abortion is (although I imagine I'd disagree with her) - nobody should be sacked for speaking their mind about political issues. This sort of speech should be highly protected by law, and only in the most extreme of circumstances should someone's employment be endangered by their views. This crap is highly disappointing.
 

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mouncey2franklin

Premiership Player
Jun 16, 2018
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Is it true that women who have had abortions are statistically more likely to have complications in future pregnancies?

And is it true that women who have had abortions are statistically more likely to suffer mental health problems later in life?

If so, then these seem like issues which deserve public discussion. Women (and men) ought to know, if this is the case.
 

eastfreo75

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 11, 2011
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Is it true that women who have had abortions are statistically more likely to have complications in future pregnancies?

And is it true that women who have had abortions are statistically more likely to suffer mental health problems later in life?

If so, then these seem like issues which deserve public discussion. Women (and men) ought to know, if this is the case.
Like alot of things, people conduct studies to prove a point.
 

mouncey2franklin

Premiership Player
Jun 16, 2018
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that's studies confirm the someone's cognitive bias and not looking for truth, even if that doesn't suit their agenda.

Happens on both sides.

So if someone wanted to do study on mental health and abortion, their pro life/pro choice bias would come through.
So are you saying that we should ignore studies and statistics?

If so, then on what should people be basing their opinions? Just a gut feel?
 

eastfreo75

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 11, 2011
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So are you saying that we should ignore studies and statistics?

If so, then on what should people be basing their opinions? Just a gut feel?
You really need to look at the methodology of the study.

People quote stats all the time but a lot of the time is out of context and the methodology is dodgy. Example of this domestic violence. A 70 old woman who had one fight as a young kid once with her sister at 12 is included the stats as a victim of domestic violence.

I don’t take stats at face value anymore.

Some people quote averages and if they quoted median the conclusions would be different.

Sure you need to listen to people but when they quote stats you need to look closer at them.
 

Seeds

Hall of Famer
Sep 15, 2007
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Here is my view, guaranteed to please no one. Not even me.

Abortion is killing.

All definitions of life post conception are arbitrary human or legal decisions, they are not when a life began.

Life begins at conception.

That is when this seperate biological material, sperm and egg, started to exist as a life, in however primative form in the early stages.

But, some times killing is necessary. The terms killer and murder are not the same thing, murder is a legal term, and it means legal sanction against has been agreed upon.

Killing a criminal in self-defense, in war (under certain circumstances) is not murder, but it sure as hell is killing.

Abortion is killing.

But history shows women can not be forced to endure nine months of pregnancy, to carry a life in their body if they are determined not to, and to force them is to my mind a greater injustice than the killing of the life in very early stages in most circumstances.

Abortion, as currently practiced, is justifiable killing.

But do not kid yourself ladies, give the gravity of your decision the honor of truth, you are killing.

You may have to kill, but killing is what you are doing.
Everything we value in humans say compared to bugs that you have no problem killing does not begin at conception. There is in fact no single starting point but the stages where the things we value in humans start developing is well after conception.
 

Seeds

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You really need to look at the methodology of the study.

People quote stats all the time but a lot of the time is out of context and the methodology is dodgy. Example of this domestic violence. A 70 old woman who had one fight as a young kid once with her sister at 12 is included the stats as a victim of domestic violence.

I don’t take stats at face value anymore.

Some people quote averages and if they quoted median the conclusions would be different.

Sure you need to listen to people but when they quote stats you need to look closer at them.
Just cos there are some dodgy stats designed to trick you doesn’t mean you ignore stats.
 

eastfreo75

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 11, 2011
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Just cos there are some dodgy stats designed to trick you doesn’t mean you ignore stats.
We shouldn’t dismiss stats, but we do need to think critically.

Not all studies or statistics are equal. To blindly accept stats and not ask serious questions about the methodology isn’t clever or intellectually honest.
 

eastfreo75

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 11, 2011
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I agree. Have you taken the time to investigate the claims that abortions correlate with long-term negative health outcomes for the woman?
No I haven’t.

Both my mother, grandmother (mums side) and my half sister (dads side) had abortion and have/had mental issues.

In all of those family members they are/were other factors. I’m not sure if an abortion was a cause of their mental health issues.

Back my point , is that the researchers doing the studies would have a cognitive bias as well as I do.
 

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