Abortion

[Caesar]

Unprotected sex with a junkie. Ew.

 

[vealesy]

Cocaines a hell of a drug.

 

[Craigyboy]

I didnt mean I wasnt responsible for the deed, I meant why would i choose to be responsible for the kid and ruin my life, if I dont have to?

Would you rather that foetus grew up and started dealing meth?

I take everything I said back..... That kid would be better off without parents.

 

[Fuzzy Wuzzy Bear]

Unprotected sex with a junkie. Ew.

Egad's, Vealsey, didn't HIV (among other stuff) ever cross your mind?

 

[Monniehawk]

I reckon it is killing too and I hate people using it as a casual birth control method - I agree with Fidel Castro the primary way of reducing abortion is not making it illegal but to educate and provide plenty of alternatives - Hilary Clinton stole one of his sayings actually "Abortion should be safe, legal and rare"

Criminalising abortion has never been effective as a deterrent. The State cannot enforce morality - education and making the pill and condoms cheap and available are the answer

I have got a problem with late termers - seems to be the "extinguishment of human life" argument gets more tenous the less cells you destroy

(apologies for the bump.)
I'm conflicted!
Bother points:
I believe taking any human life is fundamentally wrong.
I think males pontificating on the plight of females is often fraught with smugness, misogyny and disdain.
But.. I also believe that human life/death is not the sole province of one gender.
I find abortion as the first line of contraception abhorrent.
I believe that abortion is sometimes necessary as the lesser of two evils.
I am anti Capital Punishment in any circumstance, but acknowledge that abortion sometimes is justifiable.
War is institutionalised killing, morally wrong and counter-productive.
If I deemed it necessary, and the lesser of two evils, I would go to war, but under my own volition.
Arguments about when life begins are either esoteric, subjective, judgemental or all of the above, and therefore irrelevant.
For legal purposes, an esoteric judgement on what constitutes 'life' is necessary.
I find many 'extreme anti-abortionists' are frequently rabid war-mongers and advocates of capital punishment. They confuse me.

 

[Slax]

As far as I'm concerned the biggest reason for Abortion is the problem the left-wing politically correct have caused by demanding rights for every minority group possible.

An outcome of lower abortion rates is an increased rate of adoption from within the country. Whilst this in itself is something I'd be happy enough to see as some people would be excellent parents but due to various reasons can't, the adopted kid now has more rights than the people who put it up for adoption. The child now has the right to know exactly how their biological parents are and how to contact them. This should not be allowed, jsut because from one reason or another you didn't either want to or couldn't bring up a kid 18 years ago, doesn't mean they have a right to be part of your life now.

The same thing goes for sperm and egg donors. This is why there are now so few sperm donors in Australia and the incidence of couples who have been through IVF, but have decided they do not want more children no longer donate the remaining embroys or eggs for other couples to use.

Those who support a ban on abortion must tell me why the kid has more rights than the parents, because to me it is just another example of why our society is f****d in the head.

 

[vealesy]

As far as I'm concerned the biggest reason for Abortion is the problem the left-wing politically correct have caused by demanding rights for every minority group possible.

An outcome of lower abortion rates is an increased rate of adoption from within the country. Whilst this in itself is something I'd be happy enough to see as some people would be excellent parents but due to various reasons can't, the adopted kid now has more rights than the people who put it up for adoption. The child now has the right to know exactly how their biological parents are and how to contact them. This should not be allowed, jsut because from one reason or another you didn't either want to or couldn't bring up a kid 18 years ago, doesn't mean they have a right to be part of your life now.

The same thing goes for sperm and egg donors. This is why there are now so few sperm donors in Australia and the incidence of couples who have been through IVF, but have decided they do not want more children no longer donate the remaining embroys or eggs for other couples to use.

Those who support a ban on abortion must tell me why the kid has more rights than the parents, because to me it is just another example of why our society is f****d in the head.

Its not even a 'kid' though.

Its a foetus!

Life begins at birth!

 

[RisingPhoenix]

Would suggest that this remarkable documentary is well worth a look for those on all sides of the abortion debate.

[YOUTUBE]G3c2-px62f4&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

 

[dumb]

I think I might have murdered a few million potential human beings when i self pleasured last night.

www.sexinchrist.com is your friend

There is nothing in the Scriptures that prohibits a man from swallowing his own semen if he so chooses. In fact, this is an ideal solution for avoiding the sin of “spilling seed” if the female partner is not willing to swallow, or if the man is masturbating alone. As you point out, there is nothing homosexual about swallowing your own semen because it does not involve having sex with another man. However, if you do choose to swallow your own ejaculate, be careful not to get any on yourself or your clothes. The same requirements regarding semen and cleanliness still apply (Leviticus 15:16-17).

 

[Fuzzy Wuzzy Bear]

A different issue re abortion but still causing a stir:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/2chambers/post/house-proceeds-on-abortion-funding-measure/2011/10/13/gIQA9Dy2hL_blog.html

 

[skilts]

www.sexinchrist.com is your friend

I've often said to myself, "I'll ejaculator." I'm still waiting.

The task described in your quote is easy for me, and seemingly, biblically correct, given my physiognomy. The bonus is, there is no necessity for my semen to ever be exposed to any sullying, outside elements during such an exercise. Purity is my byword. I'm a recent convert to this type of re-cycling, thus my almost-religious zeal in the dissemination of the idea.

 

[MacMum]

Right winged.....left winged, blah blah blah, shouldn't even be in the discussion!!

Abortion is and should be the right of ANY woman to decide for herself.....Its not the right of you, me or anyone else to tell a woman what is right or not for her and what she should or shouldn't be doing!

It is her business and no-one elses..

You can argue all you like against what I've said....you will not change my mind...

The decision is solely the individual womans to make..

We need to all mind our own business, and worry about what WE are doing, not what others are doing..

Too many people out there concern themselves with the business of others......and they shouldn't!..

Religion and Politics have nothing whatsoever to do with the subject..keep them out of it..

 

[Teffy]

Right winged.....left winged, blah blah blah, shouldn't even be in the discussion!!

Abortion is and should be the right of ANY woman to decide for herself.....Its not the right of you, me or anyone else to tell a woman what is right or not for her and what she should or shouldn't be doing!

It is her business and no-one elses..

You can argue all you like against what I've said....you will not change my mind...

The decision is solely the individual womans to make..

We need to all mind our own business, and worry about what WE are doing, not what others are doing..

Too many people out there concern themselves with the business of others......and they shouldn't!..

As long as this sole "womans right" comes with complete and total responsibility.

If a male is expected to contribute financially to a womans discretion then he should have a say in that discretion.

 

[Monniehawk]

Abortion is and should be the right of ANY woman to decide for herself.....Its not the right of you, me or anyone else to tell a woman what is right or not for her and what she should or shouldn't be doing!

Maybe... Are the issues of life and death/procreation/sex simply within the province of one gender?
That's fairly sexist anyway, isn't it? It places not only the rights, but all the responsibility on the woman. Where does the man/father stand in regards to rights and responsibilities in procreation?

You can argue all you like against what I've said....you will not change my mind...

??
O.K. In view of that statement, the following is addressed to the other forum members...

We need to all mind our own business, and worry about what WE are doing, not what others are doing..
Too many people out there concern themselves with the business of others......and they shouldn't!..

So someone who is concerned about what others are doing, is telling them not to be concerned with what others are doing?
Think that one through a little...

Religion and Politics have nothing whatsoever to do with the subject..keep them out of it..

....but, by implication, everyone else is allowed to be involved?
Both religion and politics consider it very much in their jurisdiction, because it is near to the heart of what they are on about.
They may well end up with opposing views, but they still have every right to do voice them, despite others telling them they have no right to.

 

[vealesy]

Yes at my local church we regularly do this, sometimes we try each others!

Its a sin to NOT do this.

 

[MacMum]

I can't get on to that link.....is it about a guy trying to stop his partner having abortion?....think I read of that a while ago..

I don't have to agree with the why's of a woman making her decision...but I do firmly believe it is her decision to make..

Men can have fantastic expections, just like a woman can, for a relationship, but ultimately, if that relationship fails, it is the woman left with the child 99% of the time..and even if the man contributes, it is still the woman who has the day to day worry, financial concern, responibility of that child and all that goes with being a single parent..

Some woman choose not to be put in that position..so be it, good for them..

Also, some people just should not have children, full stop!

 

[vonn]

What an interesting topic. I'm quite suprised with some of the extremist views in here that it's 'murder.'
I don't think people (males mostly) realise that no female enjoys the idea of an abortion or takes any pleasure in it. They don't really understand the full scope of the situation. It's a living being, which you have full responsibility of, and is completely dependent on you. It would be silly to make a woman commit to this unwillingly, both in a social sense and an economic sense. At the same time don't think females are just considering abortion lightly. It's not a one hour decision, it's life-changing and it's heartbreaking, but if they want to do it, they should and not be judged or labelled a 'murderer' for it. Their is a reason why extensive counselling is offered pre or post your operation, and that is because it is one of the hardest things you'd have to decide.
Obviously you take measures, protection and all, but at the end of the day if you fall pregnant, whether through your own stupidity or a mistake, it's 100% the decision of the female, abortion should be legalised but at the same time the ramifications of it and the fact it should be done as a last alternative and not another way of contraception should be stressed. Anyone who thinks they have a right to judge a female for their decision, or dictate the rest of their life, is a fool.

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

Terrible poll questions. I'm neither for or agin abortion. Now Choice . . . .

 

[Slax]

Men can have fantastic expections, just like a woman can, for a relationship, but ultimately, if that relationship fails, it is the woman left with the child 99% of the time..and even if the man contributes, it is still the woman who has the day to day worry, financial concern, responibility of that child and all that goes with being a single parent..

So the fact that the family court is a sexist biggotted institution that will virtually always place the mother above the father regardless has nothing to do with it?

 

[Frank Grimes]

What an interesting topic. I'm quite suprised with some of the extremist views in here that it's 'murder.'
I don't think people (males mostly) realise that no female enjoys the idea of an abortion or takes any pleasure in it. They don't really understand the full scope of the situation. It's a living being, which you have full responsibility of, and is completely dependent on you. It would be silly to make a woman commit to this unwillingly, both in a social sense and an economic sense. At the same time don't think females are just considering abortion lightly. It's not a one hour decision, it's life-changing and it's heartbreaking, but if they want to do it, they should and not be judged or labelled a 'murderer' for it. Their is a reason why extensive counselling is offered pre or post your operation, and that is because it is one of the hardest things you'd have to decide.
Obviously you take measures, protection and all, but at the end of the day if you fall pregnant, whether through your own stupidity or a mistake, it's 100% the decision of the female, abortion should be legalised but at the same time the ramifications of it and the fact it should be done as a last alternative and not another way of contraception should be stressed. Anyone who thinks they have a right to judge a female for their decision, or dictate the rest of their life, is a fool.

I agree with most of this except for the over dramatisation of making a decision. It's only life changing if it's decided to keep the child. It's not like a woman won't be able to fall pregnant again if she changes her mind after the abortion. She would just have child when she's ready.

 

[skilts]

I agree with most of this except for the over dramatisation of making a decision. It's only life changing if it's decided to keep the child. It's not like a woman won't be able to fall pregnant again if she changes her mind after the abortion. She would just have child when she's ready.

This is not necessarily so. From personal experience, the pregnancy following a previous abortion can encounter severe, sometimes fatal, complications for the foetus. I attribute this potentially adverse, seemingly unrelated, future outcome to the competence of the abortionist.

None of which provides an easy answer to the question of whether or not to abort. In this case, it's a physiological issue, rather than a moral one. I don't know the current state of play, but I would think patients who are contemplating this procedure should be made aware of all relevant complications which might arise, immediately, and in the future.

 

[Frank Grimes]

I've known a few girls who had an abortion (I was not the father for any of them BTW). They have since had multiple children. If there is a risk of not being able to have children after an abortion it must not be a very big risk.

 

[skilts]

I've known a few girls who had an abortion (I was not the father for any of them BTW). They have since had multiple children. If there is a risk of not being able to have children after an abortion it must not be a very big risk.

I may not have explained myself very well. I'm not saying that having a full-term pregnancy after an abortion is impossible. What I'm saying is that there was a disproportionate incidence of complications which occured with the pregnancy which immediately followed an abortion.

When my wife's second pregnancy (following a previous abortion) ended with a still-birth at six months, the medicos nodded knowingly and portrayed such an outcome as being unsurprising, given what had gone before. With advances in medicine, it may be that the frequency of this happening is now not as prevalent. I'm talking forty years ago. It is also possible that those medicos have subsequently been proven wrong in their postulations. My then wife eventually carried a child to full term, though I had no involvement in that event.

 

[skilts]

Further to this ^, I did some cursory Googling on this specific aspect of the side effects of abortion. There appears to be some evidence to support that what I'm saying is recognised as being an issue. However, I won't be posting any links to the sites which have this evidence.

Of the three sites I looked at, all had a disproportionate catholic look about, and input to, them. The other dead giveaway is the litany of other physiological and psychological byproducts of abortion they quote. It may be there is unbiased evidence about this somewhere, but I can't be bothered looking for it through all that hate-filled dross. I'll just say that the hospital in which the above incident occured had no religious affiliation.

 

[Slax]

Further to this ^, I did some cursory Googling on this specific aspect of the side effects of abortion. There appears to be some evidence to support that what I'm saying is recognised as being an issue. However, I won't be posting any links to the sites which have this evidence.

Of the three sites I looked at, all had a disproportionate catholic look about, and input to, them. The other dead giveaway is the litany of other physiological and psychological byproducts of abortion they quote. It may be there is unbiased evidence about this somewhere, but I can't be bothered looking for it through all that hate-filled dross. I'll just say that the hospital in which the above incident occured had no religious affiliation.

So in other words your previous comment has absolutely no scientific evidence to support your comment behind it and is purely a myth spread by anti-abortion groups to try and justify their stance to unsuspecting women.

I did your google search and found that every website claiming your statement to be fact was linked to anti-abortion groups or services. I'm not buying your story and I doubt anyone else is, so try and find another way to convince yourself, because the one your using now is crap.