List Mgmt. Adelaide Crows 2021 List Management thread

[1970crow]

Which is completely fair enough.

Personally, I think he stays in for a while yet if fit.

But if you're going to drop him, you should do it knowing that he spends 95% of his time running between the 50 metre arcs.

He won't get dropped, he'll only miss if injured or rested. He will not play a game of SANFL unless tuning up from many weeks off.

 

[morris086]

I know we’ll have reservations about unfulfilled potential but if we’re ever going to try and get Lukosius and or Rankine then we need to throw the kitchen sink at them ahead of their next contracts. Can paint a picture that we’re improving and Gold Coast are destined to be sh*t forever. Back ourselves to get the best out of them here and we need more high end class.

Why just stop at S.A. talent? Noah Anderson would be a very handy player to compliment Shoenberg, Pedlar and Berry. For mine what Lukosius and Rankine will cost in draft picks needs to spent on a player that can throw the team on their back. Right now they both feel like players benefitting from the work done by others, Luko less so. They both will be guns but I'd prefer grabbing either one as a free agent depending on where our list is at in a couple of years.

 

[Mego Red]

You don't have to, but what's the point in drafting a 19yo kid if you don't plan/expect to keep them?

It's one thing to fill a gap by drafting a mature aged player (e.g. GC likely grabbing a mature ruck), which could easily justify a short-term contract only. It's entirely another to uproot a 19yo kid and then dump them 6 months later.

Because they might be excellent and you've given them an opportunity.

We're not Richmond. We could have a whole range of players we look to trade at the end of the year, even forgetting delisting. Did you see how shithouse our reserves team was today? We're DESPERATE for talented warm bodies.

 

[Sanders]

The idea that we’re struggling for list spots with few candidates for delisting is so pathologically perverse they should name a syndrome after it

 

[Vader]

Because they might be excellent and you've given them an opportunity.

We're not Richmond. We could have a whole range of players we look to trade at the end of the year, even forgetting delisting. Did you see how shithouse our reserves team was today? We're DESPERATE for talented warm bodies.

You want to know why our reserves team got smashed? Because our whole team is either youngsters in their 1st or 2nd season, or top-up players who are barely SANFL standard. Here's the list of our AFL listed SANFL players today:
Newchurch - 1st year player
Cook - 1st year player
Borlase - 1st year player
Pedlar - 1st year player
Thilthorpe - 1st year player
Worrell - 2nd year player
O'Connor - 2nd year player
McAsey - 2nd year player
Strachan - 3rd year player
Jones - 3rd year player
Himmelberg - 5th year player
Davis - 5th year player
Mackay - 15th year player

Only Himmelberg, Davis & Mackay have been in the system for more than 2 whole seasons... and 2 of these 3 are already expected to be on the chopping block at the end of the year.

Note also that 2nd year players are, to all intents and purposes, 1st year players - given that AFC players didn't play SANFL last year.

Getting smashed in the SANFL had nothing to do with talent, it had everything to do with a lack of mature, experienced bodies and players, to help give the kids direction and leadership.

 

[Red mist]

The idea that we’re struggling for list spots with few candidates for delisting is so pathologically perverse they should name a syndrome after it

The chirps

 

[ABAB]

You want to know why our reserves team got smashed? Because our whole team is either youngsters in their 1st or 2nd season, or top-up players who are barely SANFL standard. Here's the list of our AFL listed SANFL players today:
Newchurch - 1st year player
Cook - 1st year player
Borlase - 1st year player
Pedlar - 1st year player
Thilthorpe - 1st year player
Worrell - 2nd year player
O'Connor - 2nd year player
McAsey - 2nd year player
Strachan - 3rd year player
Jones - 3rd year player
Himmelberg - 5th year player
Davis - 5th year player
Mackay - 15th year player

Only Himmelberg, Davis & Mackay have been in the system for more than 2 whole seasons... and 2 of these 3 are already expected to be on the chopping block at the end of the year.

Note also that 2nd year players are, to all intents and purposes, 1st year players - given that AFC players didn't play SANFL last year.

Getting smashed in the SANFL had nothing to do with talent, it had everything to do with a lack of mature, experienced bodies and players, to help give the kids direction and leadership.

You lose 2 of your best and experience midfielders and this filter down to the top up midfielder players in the SANFL and we seem to be using the top up players to find talent for the AFL and not trying to win the competition (which is what the SANFL wants), Murphy, Matthews, Murray, etc and this is how our reserve side should be use.

 

[Red mist]

You want to know why our reserves team got smashed? Because our whole team is either youngsters in their 1st or 2nd season, or top-up players who are barely SANFL standard. Here's the list of our AFL listed SANFL players today:
Newchurch - 1st year player
Cook - 1st year player
Borlase - 1st year player
Pedlar - 1st year player
Thilthorpe - 1st year player
Worrell - 2nd year player
O'Connor - 2nd year player
McAsey - 2nd year player
Strachan - 3rd year player
Jones - 3rd year player
Himmelberg - 5th year player
Davis - 5th year player
Mackay - 15th year player

Only Himmelberg, Davis & Mackay have been in the system for more than 2 whole seasons... and 2 of these 3 are already expected to be on the chopping block at the end of the year.

Note also that 2nd year players are, to all intents and purposes, 1st year players - given that AFC players didn't play SANFL last year.

Getting smashed in the SANFL had nothing to do with talent, it had everything to do with a lack of mature, experienced bodies and players, to help give the kids direction and leadership.

What did the SANFL want and have we complied?

 

[Danger in Texas]

You want to know why our reserves team got smashed? Because our whole team is either youngsters in their 1st or 2nd season, or top-up players who are barely SANFL standard. Here's the list of our AFL listed SANFL players today:
Newchurch - 1st year player
Cook - 1st year player
Borlase - 1st year player
Pedlar - 1st year player
Thilthorpe - 1st year player
Worrell - 2nd year player
O'Connor - 2nd year player
McAsey - 2nd year player
Strachan - 3rd year player
Jones - 3rd year player
Himmelberg - 5th year player
Davis - 5th year player
Mackay - 15th year player

Only Himmelberg, Davis & Mackay have been in the system for more than 2 whole seasons... and 2 of these 3 are already expected to be on the chopping block at the end of the year.

Note also that 2nd year players are, to all intents and purposes, 1st year players - given that AFC players didn't play SANFL last year.

Getting smashed in the SANFL had nothing to do with talent, it had everything to do with a lack of mature, experienced bodies and players, to help give the kids direction and leadership.

To be fair, Strachan, being 25 years old, should probably go in the experienced pile too. That's still only four players though

Really does highlight how young our list is, overall. I would not at all be surprised at this point if the guys we draft in the mid-season draft are both 22+ years of age

 

[Red mist]

To be fair, Strachan, being 25 years old, should probably go in the experienced pile too. That's still only four players though

Really does highlight how young our list is, overall. I would not at all be surprised at this point if the guys we draft in the mid-season draft are both 22+ years of age

Glad our list is young as, sad Strounghnie is old as balls

 

[Mego Red]

To be fair, Strachan, being 25 years old, should probably go in the experienced pile too. That's still only four players though

Really does highlight how young our list is, overall. I would not at all be surprised at this point if the guys we draft in the mid-season draft are both 22+ years of age

To be honest, I'd be perfectly happy with drafting in a couple of 25 year olds to help strengthen our SANFL team. They get a pay bump, exposure and a chance to stay on the list and our juniors don't get crucified in a shithouse developmental side.

 

[craig crowing]

Lots of posters desperate to get Lukosius and Rankine but as much as like to get Lukosius ,the player I believe that Crows should do anything possible to get is Hollands at end of next year start talking to him now.
He is that bigger mid Fwd with extra factor that we haven't got.
We need a top 10 AFL star to add to kids we have to be a major finals influence in the next 5 years or so and Elijah can be that player I believe.

 

[Mego Red]

You want to know why our reserves team got smashed? Because our whole team is either youngsters in their 1st or 2nd season, or top-up players who are barely SANFL standard. Here's the list of our AFL listed SANFL players today:
Newchurch - 1st year player
Cook - 1st year player
Borlase - 1st year player
Pedlar - 1st year player
Thilthorpe - 1st year player
Worrell - 2nd year player
O'Connor - 2nd year player
McAsey - 2nd year player
Strachan - 3rd year player
Jones - 3rd year player
Himmelberg - 5th year player
Davis - 5th year player
Mackay - 15th year player

Only Himmelberg, Davis & Mackay have been in the system for more than 2 whole seasons... and 2 of these 3 are already expected to be on the chopping block at the end of the year.

Note also that 2nd year players are, to all intents and purposes, 1st year players - given that AFC players didn't play SANFL last year.

Getting smashed in the SANFL had nothing to do with talent, it had everything to do with a lack of mature, experienced bodies and players, to help give the kids direction and leadership.

Look, this is fair.

Of those playing today, I'm not expecting that much consistently from:

Newchurch - 1st year player
Cook - 1st year player
Borlase - 1st year player
Pedlar - 1st year player
Thilthorpe - 1st year player

But the rest of these guys should be playing at a quality above SANFL standard:

Worrell - 2nd year player
O'Connor - 2nd year player
McAsey - 2nd year player
Strachan - 3rd year player
Jones - 3rd year player
Himmelberg - 5th year player
Davis - 5th year player
Mackay - 15th year player

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

Look, this is fair.

Of those playing today, I'm not expecting that much consistently from:

Newchurch - 1st year player
Cook - 1st year player
Borlase - 1st year player
Pedlar - 1st year player
Thilthorpe - 1st year player

But the rest of these guys should be playing at a quality above SANFL standard:

Worrell - 2nd year player
O'Connor - 2nd year player
McAsey - 2nd year player
Strachan - 3rd year player
Jones - 3rd year player
Himmelberg - 5th year player
Davis - 5th year player
Mackay - 15th year player

2nd year players are really first year players since they had no SANFL games last year

 

[1970crow]

Because they might be excellent and you've given them an opportunity.

We're not Richmond. We could have a whole range of players we look to trade at the end of the year, even forgetting delisting. Did you see how shithouse our reserves team was today? We're DESPERATE for talented warm bodies.

Vader is just a simpleton. His argument is that we can't take players because we need to delist 3 due to draft rules. So instead of grabbing 3 free hits and delisting the worst 3 from our full list, we just keep the spots totally open so we don't have to delist anyone that's not already on the pile. It makes sense to him.

 

[Mego Red]

2nd year players are really first year players since they had no SANFL games last year

They trained all year, got physically stronger, learned more about what's required at senior level and some (McAsey) played most of the year in the AFL.

Sure, they might be a bit off the pace but they're not the same as a kid stumbling in from a season with Calder Cannons.

 

[Mego Red]

Here's my hope. A trade with the Bulldogs.

McAsey and 34 for Lipinski and 18.

The Bulldogs get a 20 year old pick 6 key defender for Lipinski and a 16 spot downgrade.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Look, this is fair.

Of those playing today, I'm not expecting that much consistently from:

Newchurch - 1st year player
Cook - 1st year player
Borlase - 1st year player
Pedlar - 1st year player
Thilthorpe - 1st year player

But the rest of these guys should be playing at a quality above SANFL standard:

Worrell - 2nd year player
O'Connor - 2nd year player
McAsey - 2nd year player
Strachan - 3rd year player
Jones - 3rd year player
Himmelberg - 5th year player
Davis - 5th year player
Mackay - 15th year player

To be fair.. you seem to have forgotten what happened last year.

Its really only the last five on those lists that you can come down hard on.

Strachan - 3rd year player
Jones - 3rd year player
Himmelberg - 5th year player
Davis - 5th year player
Mackay - 15th year player

all the players listed as “2 years” didnt get the opportunity to play and develop their game in any SANFL last year due to Covid so they should effectively have “1 year” put next to their names.

the other 5 arent AFL standard and shouldve been moved on already.

 

[Vader]

Look, this is fair.

Of those playing today, I'm not expecting that much consistently from:

Newchurch - 1st year player
Cook - 1st year player
Borlase - 1st year player
Pedlar - 1st year player
Thilthorpe - 1st year player

But the rest of these guys should be playing at a quality above SANFL standard:

Worrell - 2nd year player
O'Connor - 2nd year player
McAsey - 2nd year player
Strachan - 3rd year player
Jones - 3rd year player
Himmelberg - 5th year player
Davis - 5th year player
Mackay - 15th year player

2nd year players this year are, to all intents and purposes, 1st year players - and they belong in the first group. Don't forget that Worrell & O'Connor played SFA football last year, though McAsey had a pretty decent run in the seniors.

That leaves you with 5 players who should be "at a quality above SANFL standard" (and several of them aren't), while the other 17 are at or below SANFL standard. You can't expect 5 players to carry the rest of the team.

The problem we have right now is that we have so many kids on our list that, even with 10+ sub-50 gamers in the AFL team, we still have a SANFL team which is full of kids and top-ups. Mackay is the only senior player in the SANFL at present, the rest are all either injured or in the AFL team. We no longer have those mid-aged fringe players, like we used to have with CEY & Knight, who weren't good enough to play AFL but provided solid bodies to shield the developing youngsters. Now there's just kids, back ups, plus Jackson & Wright.

 

[Vader]

They trained all year, got physically stronger, learned more about what's required at senior level and some (McAsey) played most of the year in the AFL.

Sure, they might be a bit off the pace but they're not the same as a kid stumbling in from a season with Calder Cannons.

When you say "some", you mean "one". McAsey played 10 games in the AFL team. Worrell & O'Connor played a grand total of 0 AFL & SANFL games between them. They had the benefit of AFL training all year, but no games to play.

 

[Vader]

To be fair.. you seem to have forgotten what happened last year.

Its really only the last five on those lists that you can come down hard on.

Strachan - 3rd year player
Jones - 3rd year player
Himmelberg - 5th year player
Davis - 5th year player
Mackay - 15th year player

all the players listed as “2 years” didnt get the opportunity to play and develop their game in any SANFL last year due to Covid so they should effectively have “1 year” put next to their names.

the other 5 arent AFL standard and shouldve been moved on already.

A bit harsh to say that Himmelberg & Jones should have been moved on already. Himmelberg played some damn good football at AFL level, in the back half of last year. Jones is a 3rd year kid, and they're trying desperately to get him back to playing the level of football which got him drafted in the first place. Strachan is there to provide a back up ruck option, if something happens to ROB, and he's doing everything expected of him.

That leaves Davis & Mackay, as players who should have been moved on already.

 

[Bearded Clam]

A bit harsh to say that Himmelberg & Jones should have been moved on already. Himmelberg played some damn good football at AFL level, in the back half of last year. Jones is a 3rd year kid, and they're trying desperately to get him back to playing the level of football which got him drafted in the first place. Strachan is there to provide a back up ruck option, if something happens to ROB, and he's doing everything expected of him.

That leaves Davis & Mackay, as players who should have been moved on already.

Himmelberg is hot garbage. So is frampton.

the overrating of berg on this forum is way over the top. He played six decent games last year and a few on here instantly blew their loads over him.. this season he’s been terrible up until yesterday when he took some great marks.. but didnt do much with the ball once he took those marks to be honest.

he missed yet another goal from 30-35 out in front (although he didnt even make the distance with one of his shots from 35 out last week, so thats an improvement) and kicked one other.

6 decent games from five years on the list for a forward who you’d never ever rely on to convert even when directly in front 35m out... not AFL standard i’m sorry.

Framptons pretty much a mirror image of Himm. Both are depth and not great depth if we are gonna be honest. Both have issues with cement hands, both are totally unreliable in front of goals even 35 out straight in front..

hopefully we can get Thilthorpe up and firing quickly and berg and frampton can be moved on and replaced by something more promising over the next couple of years..

the only reason Frampton is playing AFL is because TT isnt ready just yet and himm hasnt done enough to push out frampton from keeping that spot warm for TT..

Ultimately.. I’ll have my opinion on Himm and frampton and you can have yours on the Fog Vader... atleast the Fog can be relied upon to convert in front of the big sticks.

As for the others... mookay shouldve gone long ago, strachan is depth that we better pray like hell we never have to actually use and young Jones, who I have actually held out hope for up until a few weeks ago, is a lost cause now.. unless he massively improves hes a delist come the seasons end.

 

[Mego Red]

When you say "some", you mean "one". McAsey played 10 games in the AFL team. Worrell & O'Connor played a grand total of 0 AFL & SANFL games between them. They had the benefit of AFL training all year, but no games to play.

Yep.

And the majority of draftees spent the entire 2020 doing jigsaw puzzles with their mum. The junior players who are now first year players are those who REALLY suffered, with many struggling to even do proper schooling.

Those on our list spent the entire year in the gym getting bigger, and the entire year with development coaches improving their game and learning team structure. They played scratch matches every single week against opposition - obviously not the same thing as playing a full season of lower league football, but also MUCH more than a year doing nothing.

 

[Great8]

On Friday night at the SANFL it was rumoured that a young Oliver Davis from Tasmania has been offered a potential MSD spot with you guys and has been asked to relocate to Adelaide and play for your SANFL side. I believe he is heading over this week and should be available for the game against Centrals

 

[Bob Neil]

Saw the Suns get smashed on the weekend and their 2nd gamer Jai Farrer (sp.?) actually held his own and I think they mentioned he was previously a Crows top up player. Any SANFL watchers got thoughts on him...?