List Mgmt. Adelaide Crows 2021 List Management thread

[70lethal]

So what you are saying is hire good people but not bad people?
How do you determine the good from the bad before you hire them?

Don't employee a fitness guy with a bad track record for a start.
Employee successful people.
Good organisations produce good people more times than not.
Then don't make basic stupid decisions due to ego's at board level.

Melbourne sack their greatest ever coach Norm Smith after winning 6 flags in 10 years
Takes 57 years to win next flag

Richmond sack Tony Jewell after 3 seasons and a flag.
Takes 37 years to win next flag

Collingwood replace Malthouse after a flag and runner up.

Hawthorn replace Clarkson who is considered the best modern day coach after 4 flags

 

[GreyCrow]

It's not so much good organisations hire good people but bad organisations hold onto bad people too long

 

[Vader]

Have we officially delisted Lynch and Talia?

AFL.com have them listed as delisted. I thought at this point they are unsigned FA’s.

Not yet. Can't delist until the first List Lodgement date.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Quietly Nick Murray was at a 18.4% loss rate this year which is Talia like (career rate of 20.7% with a 16-23% range), though its a smallish sample size. I reckon we're sleeping on how good that kid is going to be.

Hopefully the club realises this

I know it was only one game but dropping Murray for Frampton was concerning.

It was a How to do a rebuild the Carlton Way decision.

We cannot afford to offset our gains with idiocy

 

[Thetrader15]

Not sure as we were able to play Lynch after we announced we were delisting him.

They're not delisted, they are OOC and not being offered another. ATM, they are in the same situation as Jordan Dawson.

My understanding is they won't be "delisted" until after the trade period, so they can't be picked up as a DFA until the second FA period (whenever that is).

So we can trade them for very little value if all parties agree to get him to a new club early (e.g. Birchall), or clubs can wait to get him to the club later and not trade for him.

 

[Vader]

Hopefully the club realises this

I know it was only one game but dropping Murray for Frampton was concerning.

It was a How to do a rebuild the Carlton Way decision.

We cannot afford to offset our gains with idiocy

It was an experiment, nothing more. Frampton is a dismal failure as a forward, but appeared competent when they played him in defence. They wanted to have another look at him in defence, before writing him off completely.

Given the young & inexperienced nature of our playing list, I don't have any problem with them experimenting to find players' best positions. For example, moving Jones from midfield to defence worked beautifully.

Frampton represents a reasonable depth option for our KPDs, but we now know that Murray is definitively better as the primary KPD option (alongside Butts).

 

[jackster83]

It's not so much good organisations hire good people but bad organisations hold onto bad people too long

Bad organisations also tend to promote bad people.

 

[WeedsMullet84]

Hopefully the club realises this

I know it was only one game but dropping Murray for Frampton was concerning.

It was a How to do a rebuild the Carlton Way decision.

We cannot afford to offset our gains with idiocy

We kind of had two things that happened unexpectedly. Firstly Murray is looking like he has all the traits to become a very good KPD, and secondly Frampton is also looking like he'd more than adequate down back.

Do we potentially offload someone to Swans, who are looking pretty thin in the KPD stocks?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

We kind of had two things that happened unexpectedly. Firstly Murray is looking like he has all the traits to become a very good KPD, and secondly Frampton is also looking like he'd more than adequate down back.

Do we potentially offload someone to Swans, who are looking pretty thin in the KPD stocks?

Might depend on how much faith we have in McAsey to develop into an AFL key defender

He was playing forward by the end of the season so perhaps not

 

[Vader]

We kind of had two things that happened unexpectedly. Firstly Murray is looking like he has all the traits to become a very good KPD, and secondly Frampton is also looking like he'd more than adequate down back.

Do we potentially offload someone to Swans, who are looking pretty thin in the KPD stocks?

How many times do I have to say it - 23 + Frampton for Dawson, and Frampton is non-negotiable (as was Jesse White in the Pond Scum deal).

 

[WeedsMullet84]

How many times do I have to say it - 23 + Frampton for Dawson, and Frampton is non-negotiable (as was Jesse White in the Pond Scum deal).

Nah if i was going to include Frampton i'd be giving Swans the Melbourne 2nd. KPD's don't grow on trees and, again, i think he'll become more than serviceable as a defender.

 

[Vader]

Nah if i was going to include Frampton i'd be giving Swans the Melbourne 2nd. KPD's don't grow on trees and, again, i think he'll become more than serviceable as a defender.

Frampton decreases the value of 23, as they also need to take on his salary.

 

[WeedsMullet84]

Frampton decreases the value of 23, as they also need to take on his salary.

He'd certainly be given more opportunity at the Swans that's for sure.

If it was McAsey they wanted you'd almost be asking for some change from the Swans (although yes i'm aware that most on this board would start the car in a straight swap of McAsey for Dawson)

 

[Mego Red]

Frampton decreases the value of 23, as they also need to take on his salary.

Which is extraordinarily minor.

Frampton isn't worth much, but he has positive value because finding competent KPDs isn't simple.

 

[Vader]

Which is extraordinarily minor.

Frampton isn't worth much, but he has positive value because finding competent KPDs isn't simple.

Frampton's value is negative - both due to his salary (probably higher than you think), and the fact that he'd occupy a position on their senior list (which therefore can't be filled by a footballer).

 

[dylan123]

but we now know that Murray is definitively better as the primary KPD option (alongside Butts).

How do we definitively know this to be the case?

 

[dylan123]

Milera at his best was still underwhelming. Another Hamish flubber.

now he’s 2 years out of the game and not even halfway through his contract

anything we get from him is a bonus. Hopefully there’s a half way decent player ready to break out

From our expectations early on I would agree however at his best he's still in our best 22 and someone who even polled a couple of brownlow votes in in 2018. But yeah, two seasons with next to no footy and a 2019 season which didn't really follow up from his 2018 aren't great signs but still seeing being a value add overall.

 

[Vader]

How do we definitively know this to be the case?

We've watched them both play, in the same position.

 

[dylan123]

We've watched them both play, in the same position.

We've seen Murray dropped 5 times and failed to play over 3 games in a row (wrongfully in my opinion) and Frampton play just 2 games in defense and get a call up ahead of Murray for the last game of the season.

Nothing is definitive at this point in time for the CHB position.

 

[Mego Red]

Frampton's value is negative - both due to his salary (probably higher than you think), and the fact that he'd occupy a position on their senior list (which therefore can't be filled by a footballer).

Yeah, I get what your dad joke was.

Billy Frampton has the potential to be a best 22 key defender. Very good frame, absolutely athletic enough. Probably on about $250k, so less than industry average. He holds some positive value to a club.

 

[Mego Red]

How do we definitively know this to be the case?

We don't.

Murray started well but ended badly. Hopefully he gets a good pre-season in, because it was fair enough if he burned out by the end.

 

[Mego Red]

We've seen Murray dropped 5 times and failed to play over 3 games in a row (wrongfully in my opinion) and Frampton play just 2 games in defense and get a call up ahead of Murray for the last game of the season.

Nothing is definitive at this point in time for the CHB position.

Let's give them both a fair run at it, with McAsey.

You'd have to think we have the position covered, and it might be up to who does the most work this offseason.

 

[Golumless]

We don't.

Murray started well but ended badly. Hopefully he gets a good pre-season in, because it was fair enough if he burned out by the end.

I suppose a 13 disposal/10 1%/100% contested one on one win rate/347 meter gained game at 91% efficiency whilst playing 89% of the game as a 2nd key defender really isn't up to snuff (Murray against Melbourne).

He was fine, and likely was just a victim of us trying to tank against North Melbourne. A plan that backfired hideously because they were North Melbourne. Or he was a victim of us being a stupid football club, a factor that also backfired hideously because we came up against North Melbourne.

 

[Crow till I die]

We don't.

Murray started well but ended badly. Hopefully he gets a good pre-season in, because it was fair enough if he burned out by the end.

He came off of no AFL preseason so did really well to play as long and as well as he did. Now he gets a full AFL preseason..under Burgess so I think we can reasonably hope to see him improve next year

 

[Mutineer]

Let's give them both a fair run at it, with McAsey.

You'd have to think we have the position covered, and it might be up to who does the most work this offseason.

I don't know I see someone on the main draft threads board had us taking Josh Gibcus?