Adequate vs Exceptional

[Swish]

With a couple of days to ponder the events I am comfortable with the way Freo went about this.

The news polls, aside from being sensationalist, also provoke different responses from me.

Asked did Mark Harvey deserve to be sacked? I answered no.

Asked would you prefer Ross Lyon as coach of Freo over Mark Harvey? I answer yes.

I liked what Harvey brought to the club. He was adequate as a coach. Do you fire people that perform their job adequately? No. Do you replace them with someone that has proven to perform the role exceptionally? Possibly.

The real issue is the club is in the business of winning premierships, in other words to be the best in the competition - exceptional. Adequate performance does not yield exceptional results.

Was a ruthless act but in the best interests of the club achieving it's goals. I see no difference between what happened to Harvey and what happens to countless experienced players every season that get unexpectedly cut.

When there is only one job available you have to get the best person to perform it.

 

[apuchar]

With a couple of days to ponder the events I am comfortable with the way Freo went about this.

The news polls, aside from being sensationalist, also provoke different responses from me.

Asked did Mark Harvey deserve to be sacked? I answered no.

Asked would you prefer Ross Lyon as coach of Freo over Mark Harvey? I answer yes.

I liked what Harvey brought to the club. He was adequate as a coach. Do you fire people that perform their job adequately? No. Do you replace them with someone that has proven to perform the role exceptionally? Possibly.

The real issue is the club is in the business of winning premierships, in other words to be the best in the competition - exceptional. Adequate performance does not yield exceptional results.

Was a ruthless act but in the best interests of the club achieving it's goals. I see no difference between what happened to Harvey and what happens to countless experienced players every season that get unexpectedly cut.

When there is only one job available you have to get the best person to perform it.

Yes. We could have done the right thing and let Harvey see out his contract, wasting another year. Or bite the bullet and get someone now who we believe is better. Under different circumstances we probably would have handled the Harvey thing differently, but they weren't different circumstances. brave decision considering the flack they knew they were going to get.

 

[Swish]

See I dont see how it could have been handled differently. You can't inform someone that they will be sacked soon so that they have time to prepare.

No senior people in any business get a written warning first.

If the board had lost faith then they did the smartest thing possible and found a replacement that could come in immediately sparing the club from 'caretaker' mode.

Imagine if we fired Harvey without having a replacement lined up. Between Melbourne, the Bullies and Crows we would have started an insane bidding war for coaches.

How else should this have been handled? It's not like Harves logged into Facebook to find his relationship status with FFC had changed. He was told face to face.

 

[theGav56]

I agree with you that he did not 'deserve" to be sacked purely in terms of his job. Lyon is just a better option.

Harvey could have/should have a performance review in which he is given feedback about the clubs concerns, and asked how he thinks they can be addressed. The range of options from that could include informing him that if the concerns don't show signs of being addressed by whatever time next year is most suitable (bye, mid-season, round 6), then the club may take action. Or perhaps he is not informed about that, but any concerns should be raised in a performance review.

 

[Lach72]

Ben Allan is commentating on SEN tonight.
He was asked about the sacking.

SEN tweeted this:
"Ben Allan says he is sick of 'second best is good enough' we want to take this club where it needs to be!"

That's it right there.

 

[Moo]

Ben Allan is commentating on SEN tonight.
He was asked about the sacking.

SEN tweeted this:
"Ben Allan says he is sick of 'second best is good enough' we want to take this club where it needs to be!"

That's it right there.

Agreed but remember Ben is feeling the pressure to hold his seat with a high profile challenger rumoured to being considering throwing his stylish hat into the ring.

 

[Lach72]

Agreed but remember Ben is feeling the pressure to hold his seat with a high profile challenger rumoured to being considering throwing his stylish hat into the ring.

Best hoof forward, hey?

 

[dominguez]

You could argue that Connolly was adequate but we missed a real opportunity while he was at the club. The same applies to Harvey, we were either going to waste 2012 or make the 8 next year, re-sign him, and plod along with no real chance for a flag with him at the helm.

 

[yakka man]

I was talking about it with my brother and he said why didn't let let Harvey finish up next year instead. To which I told him 1 year is a long time in Footy especially when Sandi, Pav, Mcpharlin and Grover are getting older. If the club was set on getting rid of Harvey at the end of his contract then this is the ideal thing to do for the club.

I hate how the media is going on like this is the end of our club from a supporter base perspective.

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

I was talking about it with my brother and he said why didn't let let Harvey finish up next year instead. To which I told him 1 year is a long time in Footy especially when Sandi, Pav, Mcpharlin and Grover are getting older. If the club was set on getting rid of Harvey at the end of his contract then this is the ideal thing to do for the club.

I hate how the media is going on like this is the end of our club from a supporter base perspective.

i hate how the media keep talking as if the 5% of supporters who are upset are the majority. ****ing idiots

 

[dominguez]

If the club was set on getting rid of Harvey at the end of his contract then this is the ideal thing to do for the club.

I agree, and what happens if we finished 5th-8th but never really looked like contenders next year? Allowing Harvey one more year just to be nice could have rolled into 2, 3, 4 years so definately the right decision to pull the trigger now.

 

[leeloo]

i hate how the media keep talking as if the 5% of supporters who are upset are the majority. ****ing idiots

Goosage tonight said that Freo supporters were 70-30 against the sacking of Mark Harvey. What? Are you able to make up numbers and state them as fact now?

 

[The Night Shift]

i hate how the media keep talking as if the 5% of supporters who are upset are the majority. ****ing idiots

Exactly. Sensationalism.

Goosage tonight said that Freo supporters were 70-30 against the sacking of Mark Harvey. What? Are you able to make up numbers and state them as fact now?

Goosage like many WA "sports journo's", treat FFC with a degree of disrespect. Timmeh is most likely offended over Lyons quitting his club and not even catching scent of the story before it unfolded.

 

[Lord Rod]

This may sound harsh but Harves did deserve the sack. Nothing personal but we went so far backwards this year that the only decision was to terminate him. We saw a return to the bad old days this year; insipid performances, choking consistently, hopeless management of players and a woeful gameplan.

To have continued down that path would have been madness.

 

[wehavethepassion]

Exactly. Sensationalism.
Goosage like many WA "sports journo's", treat FFC with a degree of disrespect. Timmeh is most likely offended over Lyons quitting his club and not even catching scent of the story before it unfolded.

Thats it in a nutschell. the WA media are pissed that the Dockers did so swifly.

I think Hagdorn mentioned that if it was the Slime the WA media would have gone softly softly. hang on didn't the The Slime sack judge with a year to go on his contract but a favourite son was his replacement so thats okay.

The old saying is so true "Don't tell'em F&^*em,F&^*em don't tell'em"

 

[Belnakor]

People have such short memories.

Harvey had lost the players, it was just like the connolly era - first 5 minutes of the game you'd know if the players were dinkum or not

 

[TheLoris]

People have such short memories.

Harvey had lost the players, it was just like the connolly era - first 5 minutes of the game you'd know if the players were dinkum or not

Yep, from what I heard they weren't exactly upset when they heard the news.

Harvs was good for us. When he took over we were a rabble. He played the young guns and tried to instill some hardness into them. In the Connolly days the way we tried to show hardness was by belting blokes with reports being common. Under Harvs it was by going hard at the contest.

I always felt Harvs was the guy that was needed to turn around the culture but didn't have the tactical ability to take us to the next step. Now we have a guy that can.

I'm still not convinced that we don't have a 'tail wagging the dog' situation at the club. If it's still happening hopefully Ross has the ability to get rid of it once and for all. My worry is that it starts at the top of the playing group, ie Pav.

 

[Clay Davis]

That's my concern too, TheLoris.

 

[The Night Shift]

I'm still not convinced that we don't have a 'tail wagging the dog' situation at the club. If it's still happening hopefully Ross has the ability to get rid of it once and for all. My worry is that it starts at the top of the playing group, ie Pav.

I wouldn't be surprised at all. Pav has been elevated, and rightly so, to a high status within our club. You'd have to gain an ego after a while with everyone telling you how awesome you are.
Hopefully Lyon will bring it all together for a red hot crack at a premiership(s).

 

[estibador]

In all his years here I doubt Pav has ever played under a coach that he had full faith in.

Hopefully Lyon is the man to command that sort of respect from the playing group.

 

[Clay Davis]

Pav showed a touch of the Brad Greens this year.

 

[TheLoris]

In all his years here I doubt Pav has ever played under a coach that he had full faith in.

Hopefully Lyon is the man to command that sort of respect from the playing group.

Pav is the captain and the best player we've probably ever had at the club. But I disagree that any player had the autonomy he had to be able to take himself into the midfield when he saw it necessary. It surely only takes 30 secs to get a runner out there. And given the massive change that makes to the structure it should be the coaches call. As we've just been shown, its the coach thats ultimately responsible for the results. Pav has much less accountability for his decisions.

Yeah hopefully they have the respect for Lyon where they'll buy into what he's saying. He seems to have a good track record in that department. Will be one of his biggest challenges changing the mindset of a few of the senior players down there.

 

[Proud Bogan]

It was mentioned in another thread that Rosich, (I think) was non-commital about Pav retaining the captaincy.

Personally I think that's a good thing.

Pav is a wonderful player but not necessarily an outstanding captain.

Relieving him of this and just letting him play footy may well be what he needs to;

a.) Drop the ego levels a bit. Which is definitely required in my book

and

b.) Let him get back to being the superstar we all know he is.

 

[TheLoris]

It was mentioned in another thread that Rosich, (I think) was non-commital about Pav retaining the captaincy.

Personally I think that's a good thing.

Pav is a wonderful player but not necessarily an outstanding captain.

Relieving him of this and just letting him play footy may well be what he needs to;

a.) Drop the ego levels a bit. Which is definitely required in my book

and

b.) Let him get back to being the superstar we all know he is.

Can you imagine the outrage on 6PR if this happened....

Would probably be the wrong move imo as there's no-one really ready to step into the role. Wouldn't hurt making it known that its a possibilty tho, just to make sure he remembers who's boss.

 

[PurpleGreenRed]

In all his years here I doubt Pav has ever played under a coach that he had full faith in.

Hopefully Lyon is the man to command that sort of respect from the playing group.

Don't think that's entirely fair. He wouldn't have signed new contracts if he didn't have faith in the coach. He was VERY pro Harvey when Harves first came in.