Expansion AFL overtaking NRL in QLD

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raskolnikov

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This is the NRL ladder atm.

Screenshot_20200829-194631_Samsung Internet.jpg


All 3 Queensland teams down the bottom. Now is the time to strike. I love seeing the Broncos down the bottom. It's just a pity that it's my Bulldogs that are stopping them from being dead last.
 

iameviljez

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i don't think the best athletes for AFL are ever going to come from the general talent pool of rugby league. There may be a very small section of league players who would make the physical crossover comfortably but I think it would be in the minority. I love league but the best players in it - save for maybe a James Tedesco or someone, gee I can't see a lot of them that would have anything to offer in AFL.
I generally disagree - once you've got the height and the frame, it's up to you as to how much bulk you want to stick on it.
 

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NoobPie

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I generally disagree - once you've got the height and the frame, it's up to you as to how much bulk you want to stick on it.

That's right, the difference is pure conditioning, though I would urge against engaging that dude in a debate. The relationship to logic is analogous to Trump's with the truth

Take any quality NRL player in a playmaking position (1,6,7,9 and even many 3,4s) and if they'd chosen to play football at 14/15 they would be every chance to play in the AFL
 

BringBackTorps

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The QRL announced on 24.7.20 that the Rugby League Brisbane Juniors (RLBJ) competition, for kids U6- U12, had c. 5000 players in 498 teams. The RLBJ comp. covers all of Greater Brisbane, excluding the Ipswich area.
When Ipswich is not included, the population of Brisbane is about 2.2m people, so this 5000 figure is a VERY low no.- & grassroots male contact RL is struggling in Greater Brisbane.
(The Ipswich Junior RL competition is not included in the 5000 figure)

For a detailed breakdown on all the RLBJ figures, including to U18 levels (RL teams from U13- U18 are also VERY low in nos.), and for SEQ AF nos. (which are having record growth), refer to my posts in this link below.

(scroll down to my posts#104,107,110, &129 in the link)
 
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BringBackTorps

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1. B. Slater & C. Smith, NRL legends, are both opposed to the NRL being expanded to 17 Clubs, if a new Brisbane Club is added c. 2023.
They say there is insufficient acceptable talent in the NRL to expand to 17 Clubs- they don't want the NRL to be diluted further, as it would erode the appeal of the NRL.

(B. Fittler, P. Gallen, P. Gould, A Johns have also recently expressed concerns that the NRL should not expand to 17 Clubs; as does P. Stirling, by implication. A Johns has also stated recently the NRL should be be reduced to 12 Clubs only, to increase average NRL skill levels. P. Gould has recently predicted that, within 10 years, a Sydney-based NRL Club will be merged, or relocated, as they are not all sustainable).



2. QRL Chairman B. Hatcher has stated 6.9.20, if the NRL adds another Club in Brisbane, the QRL does not want the NRL to go to 17 Clubs.
The QRL preference is for the NRL to remain at 16 Clubs in the future; & for a Sydney NRL Club to merge, or be relocated to Brisbane, if a Club is added.

(scroll to my posts#129 &130)

As per my above post #180, Rugby League Brisbane Juniors contact RL player nos. for U13- U18 are also very dismal- FAR worse!
The above QRL statement, that the Rugby League Brisbane Juniors has only 5000 contact RL players U6- U12, is extraordinary, & almost shocking.

One can infer from the 24.7.20 QRL statement that the long term, significant decline of male GR contact RL nos. in Qld. is having a negative effect on current NRL average skill levels; & endangers effective NRL expansion.



3. GR AF jnr competition nos. are booming in SEQ. There are currently c.12,700 regd. Club players 8 y.o. - 17 y.o (& not including many thousands in Club Auskick; & primary & secondary school competitions- both govt. & private). See link in this thread post #163.

Penrith NRL Legend G. Alexander (& now a RL jnr coach in the Penrith DJRL) stated on 20.4.20 that "junior rugby league is struggling, but no one wants to admit it"; & the NRL is artificially inflating its official, regd. "participant" nos. by including many non-contact touch/tag participants, & female participants. See link in this thread, post #163.
(P. Kent, in The Daily Telegraph, has previously made a similar comment on 7.12.18, re the NRL inflating & padding its official participant nos.).
 
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Freomaniac

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It will never overtake it, however it's a proverbial monster in comparison to RL in VIC, SA, WA and TAS. I think the game can settle with that.

Southern NSW is as much AFL heartland as it is NRL, probably more so. You wont find an NRL club south of the Murray and they are even sparse up to Wagga and Canberra.

QLD and NSW contributes double digit players to the AFL draft just about every year.

You would struggle to find a Victorian, SA, WA or Tasmanian player in the entire NRL. That's with the Storm being close to the powerhouse side of the competition for 20 consectuvie years. I know Melbourne pretty well and I can only really recall two rugby grounds in the entire metropolitan area, there's obviously a few more but only two that I know for certain and they are right off the grid.

I probably know of as many Gaelic Football fields in Melbourne as Rugby grounds.

Most cricket grounds in Sydney are AFLSyd grounds in winter. They are everywhere and some high profile district cricket ones like UNSW's main oval, UTS in Paddington and Pennant Hills etc. I imagine Brisbane is probably the same.

The Gold Coast QAFL sides are historically pretty big local football sides and nationally recognized as such. You don't blink an eye if a good young local kid moves from Vermont to Southport to play for some coin in QLD.

Baseball is a far more popular sport in Melbourne than RL ever will be as a weird comparison, I couldn't name you one junior RL club in Melbourne, I can name you 6 or 7 baseball clubs....



RL doesn't give a sh*t about anywhere other than grassroots QLD and NSW, not even Melbourne, they haven't spent a cent down here in 20 years.

The AFL have ploughed probably hundreds of millions into grass roots clubs, competitions and Auskick in NSW and QLD in the same period.

The NRL uses Melbourne to boost their TV revenue in their TV deals.

The AFL genuinely want's to grow the game at a grass roots level in the northern states.

Ideally the NRL would love to move the Storm to the central coast or a second Brisbane team, the NRL hates them and hates the success they've had in a city whom have generally only a passing interest in the sport. Most Melbournians like the Storm though and aren't anywhere near as petty as Sydney compatriots are when it comes to sport though.




That's the difference between the codes.
A very decent and an accurate post...

It Partially explains why the AFL tv Rights money has more than the NRL. As you Said, the NRL cares mainly About NSW and Queensland as thats the backbone of the NRL fan base. Victoria serves as part of the TV rights negotiations. NRL does have the money to try and put a team in Perth or Adelaide, if they are willing to Plan it out like the AFL did in NSW or Queensland.

As far as the AFL is concerned..... Victoria is the backbone, hence why the 10 teams are there. SA and WA are not essentially the back bone but Passionate footy states so there is money and ratings there too.

Its Obvious why the AFL wanted a Piece of NSW and Queensland. Theres 8 million in NSW. The AFL would love to convert NSW. But wpuld be happy to have a fair slice of it. I doubt it would over take NRL in my Life time. There is 5 Million in Queensland too. Again, AFL would love to claim that as an Aussie rules state too. AFL would be happy with having a nice slice of the pie up in Queensland too.


A lot of people really want a Team in Tassie. People Also forget back in the 1980s-mid 1990s, the ACT/Canberras area number one sport was Australian rules footy. NRL Put the Canberra Raiders there and Rugby Union put the ACT Brumbies there, AFL fell down the pecking order.

It would make sense having A Canberra team in the AFL with 400,000 living in the ACT. I would consider thinking about it with more AFL tv Rights money coming in and ACTs population increasing.
 

Freomaniac

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The Melbourne cup has a lower rating over 3 minutes than the AFL GF has over 3 hours








As far as I can see, Johnny Bananas hasn't questioned other people's mentality or suggested they "seek help" for having a different opinion than them.

Good for you that you like so many sports and wish harm to no other (except rugby union apparently), you are clearly very virtuous.

I watch other sports but, like johnny bananas, would like my preferred sport (which happens to be the subject of this forum) to become grander and have more resources at its disposal. In a strategic environment that needs to be at the expense of other sports to varying degrees.

You are the mentally stunted one to be lacking in sufficient depth to be aware your perspective is not some universal objective truth
Well it seems when it comes to the AFL vs NRL war, the battle grounds are mainly NSW, Queensland and to a lesser extent Victoria.

NRL doesnt have as much cash as the AFL But are not willing to put an NRL team in Adelaide or Perth which I think the NRL are missing out on tv rating and fans.
 

Freomaniac

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What I find is a good sign, is how open armed the QLD government has been to the AFL. They are making government led pitches to host AFL events. That must mean they see it as politically feasible, which is surprising to me but good news.

You would never see the Vic state government talk openly about trying to attract rugby games / events
well it has been a crazy year with Queenland being the Hubs for the Victorian sides.

I am suprised Canberra didnt open up to the AFL for 2-4 Victorian sides to have a Hub in ACT and play games in Canberra.
 

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NoobPie

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North Melbourne vs Fremantle - 308
Western Bulldogs vs West Coast Eagles - 532
North Melbourne vs Port Adelaide - 692

Its taking over peoples!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Were you the Muppet who was claiming a conspiracy theory that the AFL was getting people to claim that attendnce is capped tightly?
 

PhatBoy

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It will never overtake it, however it's a proverbial monster in comparison to RL in VIC, SA, WA and TAS. I think the game can settle with that.

Southern NSW is as much AFL heartland as it is NRL, probably more so. You wont find an NRL club south of the Murray and they are even sparse up to Wagga and Canberra.

QLD and NSW contributes double digit players to the AFL draft just about every year.

You would struggle to find a Victorian, SA, WA or Tasmanian player in the entire NRL. That's with the Storm being close to the powerhouse side of the competition for 20 consectuvie years. I know Melbourne pretty well and I can only really recall two rugby grounds in the entire metropolitan area, there's obviously a few more but only two that I know for certain and they are right off the grid.

I probably know of as many Gaelic Football fields in Melbourne as Rugby grounds.

Most cricket grounds in Sydney are AFLSyd grounds in winter. They are everywhere and some high profile district cricket ones like UNSW's main oval, UTS in Paddington and Pennant Hills etc. I imagine Brisbane is probably the same.

The Gold Coast QAFL sides are historically pretty big local football sides and nationally recognized as such. You don't blink an eye if a good young local kid moves from Vermont to Southport to play for some coin in QLD.

Baseball is a far more popular sport in Melbourne than RL ever will be as a weird comparison, I couldn't name you one junior RL club in Melbourne, I can name you 6 or 7 baseball clubs....



RL doesn't give a sh*t about anywhere other than grassroots QLD and NSW, not even Melbourne, they haven't spent a cent down here in 20 years.

The AFL have ploughed probably hundreds of millions into grass roots clubs, competitions and Auskick in NSW and QLD in the same period.

The NRL uses Melbourne to boost their TV revenue in their TV deals.

The AFL genuinely want's to grow the game at a grass roots level in the northern states.

Ideally the NRL would love to move the Storm to the central coast or a second Brisbane team, the NRL hates them and hates the success they've had in a city whom have generally only a passing interest in the sport. Most Melbournians like the Storm though and aren't anywhere near as petty as Sydney compatriots are when it comes to sport though.




That's the difference between the codes.

Mostly fair enough except for the diatribe about Melbourne. The NRL don't hate the Storm. The NRL are crying out for SOMEONE to move to the Central Coast but it sure as hell won't be the Storm and they are never ever going to make them. They don't need to move Melbourne to Brisbane to have a financially viable team in Brisbane. They can have both. The NRL itself gave a gift to Cameron Smith's wife because he's played a s***tload of games. on the back of the salary cap scandal the NRL could have made it almost impossible for the Storm to survive. They didn't, and within a year or two they were back at the top of the pile and had only offloaded Greg Inglis as punishment - their least important (structurally) superstar. The NRL could have banned wrestling coaches from club staff after seeing what the Storm had turned the game into. They didn't. Now every club has one.

the NRL is happy with the Storm and their niche crowd down in Melbourne, they hold up their end of the books and the NRL will continue to be happy with that.
 

Goomba1973

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What would it take?
Could this covid season be the precursor?
Two QLD teams, both competitive, one likely a top 4 team
The Courier Fail owned NRL team being less than garbage
A Grand Final in QLD?
Could the seeds laid be enough?
Sad to say I highly doubt it.
To not compete with the NRL is what it would take. As soon as the Bronco's start playing well again, footy will return to a small column on page 85 of the local rag. If the best team of the AFL era 01-03 Brisbane could not cement sell out crowds at the Gabba and big membership numbers for the Lions then a one off GF won't do it nor will a disinterested Gold Coast population.
 

Billy ray

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Hell no
North Melbourne vs Fremantle - 308
Western Bulldogs vs West Coast Eagles - 532
North Melbourne vs Port Adelaide - 692

Its taking over peoples!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Closed games dude. No ticket sales.
tomorrow eagles v north is the same Cannot buy tickets and i wanna go
 

NoobPie

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Closed games dude. No ticket sales.
tomorrow eagles v north is the same Cannot buy tickets and i wanna go
The same dude was informed of this fact weeks ago. Then he went all tin foil hat and was suggesting it was some big conspiracy.

Humiliated, he left but now he has returned like it never happened
 

Freomaniac

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Aussie rules will never take over in qld. Its like afl yo Victorians. Wont change
Again.... its not about taking over Queensland, its about getting a piece of it....

Looking at the Sydney Swans since 1982-2020, Thats 40 years of investment. Sydney swans has had moderate success. They have got a Solid fan base. they have 45-50,000 members and averaged around 30-35,000 a the SCG.

I am Hoping Brisbane get similar results like Sydney.
 

Toucan Soup

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Growth of the code in Queensland will continue to be a generational phenomenon. It is brilliant to have a national Grand Final at the Gabba - but real impacts may not be tangible for another 10-20 years. And that's just fine.
Some of the best advancement work in the Brisbane area was completed by Bruce Andrew (1950s) and Joe Grant (1960s - 1980s), particularly in improving junior and school programs - but you won't hear much about them.
In the meantime, anyone interested in purchasing a 1,104-page book? Available at www.q150.net.au/shop/

MOTK Cover Small.jpg
 

NoobPie

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Again.... its not about taking over Queensland, its about getting a piece of it....

Looking at the Sydney Swans since 1982-2020, Thats 40 years of investment. Sydney swans has had moderate success. They have got a Solid fan base. they have 45-50,000 members and averaged around 30-35,000 a the SCG.

I am Hoping Brisbane get similar results like Sydney.
Overall, I agree with your comment.

I would say Brisbane/SEQ is at least equal to Sydney, certainly when you factor grass roots participation and relative population.

The main two advantages the swans have over the lions are:
-much better on-field performance for most of the last 15 years
-a geographic concentration of support

And I'm not sure of the second (in terms of whether there is similar in brisbane or whether the geographic concentration would mean much if there was a decade of terrible on field performance)
 

Coach_Required

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Why does AFL have to take over in QLD?

Has NRL taken over in Victoria? The Storm is doing well and both can co-exist.
 

NoobPie

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Growth of the code in Queensland will continue to be a generational phenomenon. It is brilliant to have a national Grand Final at the Gabba - but real impacts may not be tangible for another 10-20 years. And that's just fine.
Some of the best advancement work in the Brisbane area was completed by Bruce Andrew (1950s) and Joe Grant (1960s - 1980s), particularly in improving junior and school programs - but you won't hear much about them.
In the meantime, anyone interested in purchasing a 1,104-page book? Available at www.q150.net.au/shop/

View attachment 962688

That's right, the two factors long term that matter are continuity of:
-presence
-resourcing of grassroots and pathways

On the first point, in 10 years time the Lions decade of pain will be just a part of the narrative of a club with a 44 season history in Brisbane. Likewise the the Suns travails will just form part of their 20 year identity regardless of what happens from now. Grand finals and periods of success give things a nudge but it is the persistence that will achieve continuous generational growth
 

PhatBoy

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I would say a fundamental difference to what happens at grass roots or local level in NSW and Queensland is the simple fact that AFL is an appealing option physically to a lot of people who simply like to be active and do something competitive.

In Bathurst there are 2 AFL clubs, one of them with 2 sides. The standard is terrible, there's maybe 6-7 players across the 70-odd players who could cut it at a reasonable level in Vic or SA/WA. But it attracts a lot of guys who are a bit to busted from league or to an extent union, and with league being semi-professional here you need to be serious about it to play it. So anyone who wants a run around, but hates soccer and enjoys a bit of contact without just getting smashed for 80 minutes, it's a great option.

Put the boot on the other foot - how many people raised on AFL where the emphasis is on running and skills first, and hammering people a distant second, are going to want to 'just have a run around' in a game like rugby league?

i LOVE rugby league, played it, was actually decent at it, and at 36 even though there are a few clubs around here I could get a run at, there's no way I'm putting my body through that again. Whereas if I got fit, I'd be inclined to have a run off the bench for one of the AFL teams.
 

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