Alan Richardson: where's the pressure?

[joop]

I cant believe I am saying this. I am not exactly the saints supporters best buddy on their board.

Saints and Freo have similar Problems. When you read into it more, its more creepy when you think about the comparisions.

If you look at Saints and dockers 1st round picks in the last 10 years, both teams either had duds, injury prone players or guys with off field problems or a mixture of all 3.

Im curious what the saints 1st round picks in the last 10 years are. I can post freos 1st rounders in the last 10 years and it doesnt read too well.

Look at the saints from 2008-2011, they didnt have access to a top 5 or top 10 pick because they made finals. Just like freo and their period from 2012-15 under ross as well.

I think the finest example is Saints best player in that 2007-2011 period is the CHF in Nick riewoldt while Freos best Player in 2012-15 finals period under ross was a CHF in Matty Pavlich.

Both sides had problems replacing their champion CHFs as well.

I remember back in 2014, Saints got Paddy McCartin. I think the plan at the time was to let him play FF while St Nick played CHF for the 2015-17 seasons. By 2018, St Nick retires and McCartin is the spear head. Sadly McCartin is injury prone and has many concussions.

While at the same time. Freo tried a similar thing. Freo got Michael Apeness in the 1st round of the 2013 AFL draft. Like McCartin, was slowly developing as a FF.

We hoped he would eventually be a spear head to freos forward line. Sadly Like McCartin, Apeness became injury prone with multiple knee injuries.

And what has freos drafting got to do with Richo?

 

[Freomaniac]

And what has freos drafting got to do with Richo?

Nothing.

didnt you read my posts?

Freo and Saints have similar problems with their rebuilds and their drafting in their last 10 years: both have butchered most of their 1st round picks.

Go on, type up the saints 1st rounders in the last 10 years. I will post freos in the same period. its not good

 

[joop]

Nothing.

didnt you read my posts?

Freo and Saints have similar problems with their rebuilds and their drafting in their last 10 years: both have butchered most of their 1st round picks.

Go on, type up the saints 1st rounders in the last 10 years. I will post freos in the same period. its not good

No one cares about Freos last 10 years, go start a thread about it if you feel it’s important.

 

[Freomaniac]

No one cares about Freos last 10 years, go start a thread about it if you feel it’s important.

if you find my post offensive, report it.

 

[4THAWN]

I mean, when the higher ups are throwing 800k for 5 years at dan hannebury I really find it hard to blame Richo for being a mid-level battling team

 

[theprospect]

Nothing.

didnt you read my posts?

Freo and Saints have similar problems with their rebuilds and their drafting in their last 10 years: both have butchered most of their 1st round picks.

Go on, type up the saints 1st rounders in the last 10 years. I will post freos in the same period. its not good

2013:
- Jack Billings
- Luke Dunstan
- Blake Acres

2014:
- Paddy McCartin
- Hugh Goddard

2015:
- Jade Gresham

2017:
- Hunter Clark
- Nick Coffield

2018:
- Max King

All still at the club apart from Goddard, with McCartin and King on the long term injury list.

Weirdly all the others played last weekend and you'd say are best 22 (Coffield still establishing himself). Don't think youth is necessarily the problem though. Our best players in that bracket of 24-29 are Carlisle, Steven, Ross, Hannebery, Roberton, Membrey.

Carlisle, Steven and Hannebery have played less than 10 games collectively and missed most of the year whilst Roberton hasn't played at all. So if Ross and Membrey are our best players playing every week in that bracket, with Membrey often taking the 2nd defender when he's one of the best 3rd forwards in the comp, is always going to be a struggle.

Not a surprise when you dig deeper and wonder how we've been so poor in the last 18 months. Players are cooked now as well. Since the round before the bye we've played in China, Townsville, Melbourne and Tasmania, with trips to Geelong, Adelaide and Sydney all still to come. Yikes.

You'd think the playing group know he's done now, going to be incredibly hard to one stay motivated when the coach is a dead man walking and two be able to run out every game for the rest of the year with all those frequent flyer points racking up. Going to get ugly in the coming weeks.

 

[master bate]

2016 Trevor Barker Award — Top 10 places

1. Jack Steven (172 votes)
2. Jarryn Geary (157)
3. Nick Riewoldt (153)
4. Leigh Montagna (127)
5. Jack Newnes (125)
6. Seb Ross (122)
7. Maverick Weller (117)
8. Tom Hickey (102)
9. Tim Membrey (99)
10. Sean Dempster and David Armitage (96)


2017 Trevor Barker Award Top 10

1. Seb Ross 159 votes
2. Dylan Roberton 124 votes
3. Jarryn Geary 121 votes
4. Jake Carlisle 119 votes
5. Jack Billings 110 votes
6. Jack Steven 108 votes
7. Jimmy Webster 88 votes
8. Jack Newnes 83
9. Jade Gresham 81 votes
10. Nathan Brown 78 votes

16 and 17 for the saints was a false dawn. 5 of the top 10 in 2016 are gone and others from those years which I've italicised haven't been able to reproduce that footy.

For Roberton and Steven it's being unable to play. Geary and Carlise it's injury. Someone like Nathan Brown just isn't that good. Newnes was a useful player who reached his peak and trailed off, that happens, not every player keeps improving. Armitage aged quickly.

You look at that 2017 b+f as it applies to 2019 and say well Billings, Gresham are good young players, Ross is solid and if/when Carlisle, Webster and Geary could play they'd be good too.

 

[master bate]

Last year the Saints kicked themselves out of games and probably stopped themselves being an 8-12 win side. That's all the list was good for. Thinking it was better based on the years before was delusional. Not with Roberton out, losing Riewoldt and Montagna, having to change rucks because the incumbents suck, McCartin injured etc.

This year they are once again a list that could be 8-12 wins but have had even more injuries and issues.

There's some concerns with Richo but he's shown an ability to plug in new players and have them look decent and often when those guys his flat spots in years 2-4 in development they push through and come out the other side which is a good sign. If you're firing him it's because you've either got someone better or you think a fresh will help solve problems that aren't really the coaches creation.

 

[Freomaniac]

2013:
- Jack Billings
- Luke Dunstan
- Blake Acres

2014:
- Paddy McCartin
- Hugh Goddard

2015:
- Jade Gresham

2017:
- Hunter Clark
- Nick Coffield

2018:
- Max King

All still at the club apart from Goddard, with McCartin and King on the long term injury list.

Weirdly all the others played last weekend and you'd say are best 22 (Coffield still establishing himself). Don't think youth is necessarily the problem though. Our best players in that bracket of 24-29 are Carlisle, Steven, Ross, Hannebery, Roberton, Membrey.

Carlisle, Steven and Hannebery have played less than 10 games collectively and missed most of the year whilst Roberton hasn't played at all. So if Ross and Membrey are our best players playing every week in that bracket, with Membrey often taking the 2nd defender when he's one of the best 3rd forwards in the comp, is always going to be a struggle.

Not a surprise when you dig deeper and wonder how we've been so poor in the last 18 months. Players are cooked now as well. Since the round before the bye we've played in China, Townsville, Melbourne and Tasmania, with trips to Geelong, Adelaide and Sydney all still to come. Yikes.

You'd think the playing group know he's done now, going to be incredibly hard to one stay motivated when the coach is a dead man walking and two be able to run out every game for the rest of the year with all those frequent flyer points racking up. Going to get ugly in the coming weeks.

Again I could understand why you got goddard, McCartin and King at the time. King is a KPF ruck as well.

But if you look at Freos 1st round picks from 2007..... most of them were crap due to either being duds, Injury prone or off field problems or mixture of all 3.

2007: Rhys Palmer (Dud and injury prone)
2008: Stephen Hill (Good but injury prone)
2009: Anthony Morabito (3 knee recos and injury prone)
2010: Jayden Pitt (retired due to heart illness)
2011: Tom Sheridan (Dud)
2012: Josh Simpson (Off field problems or attitude)
2013: Michael Apeness (Knee recos and other injuries)
2014: Lachie Weller (Traded)
2015: Part of the Harley Bennell Trade(s)
2016: Griffen Logue (ok but injury prone)
2017: Brayshaw and Cerra (both are fine)
2018: Sam Sturt (yet to debut)

Of all the 1st rounders, only Hill Logue, Brayshaw, Cerra and Sturt are still on the list.

 

[StCicatriz]

Again I could understand why you got goddard, McCartin and King at the time. King is a KPF ruck as well.

But if you look at Freos 1st round picks from 2007..... most of them were crap due to either being duds, Injury prone or off field problems or mixture of all 3.

2007: Rhys Palmer (Dud and injury prone)
2008: Stephen Hill (Good but injury prone)
2009: Anthony Morabito (3 knee recos and injury prone)
2010: Jayden Pitt (retired due to heart illness)
2011: Tom Sheridan (Dud)
2012: Josh Simpson (Off field problems or attitude)
2013: Michael Apeness (Knee recos and other injuries)
2014: Lachie Weller (Traded)
2015: Part of the Harley Bennell Trade(s)
2016: Griffen Logue (ok but injury prone)
2017: Brayshaw and Cerra (both are fine)
2018: Sam Sturt (yet to debut)

Of all the 1st rounders, only Hill Logue, Brayshaw, Cerra and Sturt are still on the list.

Thankfully we haven't reached those levels yet.

St Kilda issues are very different to freos though. Freo just have an under utilised list. St Kilda have a meh list.

Freo is easier fixed than st kilda.

 

[thisismyname]

I hate the way the media goes after coaches.

The Saints have travelled to bloody China, played in the heat, players were sick, had a bye and then off to Townsville, and back to Etihad, and you wonder why they looked flat. I guess Collingwood and Essendon supporters wouldn’t understand the difficulty of back to back away games.

The China game was a saints home game.

 

[Freomaniac]

Thankfully we haven't reached those levels yet.

St Kilda issues are very different to freos though. Freo just have an under utilised list. St Kilda have a meh list.

Freo is easier fixed than st kilda.

well if you look at the posts above, Freo and Saints have scarily similar situation and problems.

Your teams best player from 2008-11 was a CHF in Nick Riewoldt

Freos best player in 2012-15 was a CHF in Matty Pavlich.

you guys got Paddy McCartin with a 1st rounder as a full forward as St nick was in the end of his career to be an eventual spear head but sadly was cut with concussions and injuries and illness.

Freo got Apness with a 1st rounder as a FF as Pav was at the end of his career to develop as a spear head and sadly his career was cut by multiple knee injuries.

 

[Damon_3388]

The China game was a saints home game.

That doesn't lessen the physical toll of the travel.

 

[StCicatriz]

well if you look at the posts above, Freo and Saints have scarily similar situation and problems.

Your teams best player from 2008-11 was a CHF in Nick Riewoldt

Freos best player in 2012-15 was a CHF in Matty Pavlich.

you guys got Paddy McCartin with a 1st rounder as a full forward as St nick was in the end of his career to be an eventual spear head but sadly was cut with concussions and injuries and illness.

Freo got Apness with a 1st rounder as a FF as Pav was at the end of his career to develop as a spear head and sadly his career was cut by multiple knee injuries.

Bit different. apeness wasn't freos first preference. Mccarthy was in that draft But they shat the bed and reached higher than they should have for apeness when mccarthy wasn't available. Apeness was taken waaayyyy to early but you got your man eventually.

Also pav was no where near his best by 2014. Fyfe was though.

If you compare the lists now there's a massive gulf between the two.

 

[Atomboy]

I mean, when the higher ups are throwing 800k for 5 years at dan hannebury I really find it hard to blame Richo for being a mid-level battling team

We have so much salary cap space we had to do crazy deals to fill it !.

Unfortunately a broken down warrior was the only one who wanted to come to us......

 

[joop]

I actually find it funny people find excuses to defend him after nearly 6 years

 

[Captain_Bender]

Surely has to be close to the most games coached without finals

 

[aussierulesrules]

If we lose badly on the weekend (in Geelong) you'd think it will be curtains for him (as apparently reported by Sam McClure yesterday), due to the fact finals will be pretty much out of the question then and he won't be able to claim that we sacked him early, thus not giving him the chance to trigger the final year clause in his contract.

Had it not been for that contract clause for next year, I fully expect he would have been gone already. Especially with Carlton and North both getting in early with their coaching changes.

 

[Wojcinski]

If we lose badly on the weekend (in Geelong) you'd think it will be curtains for him (as apparently reported by Sam McClure yesterday), due to the fact finals will be pretty much out of the question then and he won't be able to claim that we sacked him early, thus not giving him the chance to trigger the final year clause in his contract.

Had it not been for that contract clause for next year, I fully expect he would have been gone already. Especially with Carlton and North both getting in early with their coaching changes.

Maybe the wheels are already in motion and they'd rather the stand in take the reigns the following week against the Dogs at Marvel rather than the Cats at KP?

 

[Freomaniac]

If we lose badly on the weekend (in Geelong) you'd think it will be curtains for him (as apparently reported by Sam McClure yesterday), due to the fact finals will be pretty much out of the question then and he won't be able to claim that we sacked him early, thus not giving him the chance to trigger the final year clause in his contract.

Had it not been for that contract clause for next year, I fully expect he would have been gone already. Especially with Carlton and North both getting in early with their coaching changes.

If Richo is done this week or next week, who take the interim job?

 

[BigVic]

Richo will be gone by season’s end but could be gone as early as this week.

 

[stfan]

Richo will be gone by season’s end but could be gone as early as this week.

I suspect that it will be as soon as it is mathematically impossible to make the finals.

When that occurs it becomes impossible for him to meet his trigger clause of winning a final this year. As soon as that happens the financial penalty in sacking him massively reduces and it is likely that the axe will then fall or "gentelmen's agreement be announced.

 

[stfan]

If Richo is done this week or next week, who take the interim job?

Ratten would be obvious choice.

 

[Freomaniac]

Ratten would be obvious choice.

Wait...... What? Ratten is at the saints as an Assisstant coach?

I thought he was still at the hawks?

 

[stfan]

Wait...... What? Ratten is at the saints as an Assisstant coach?

I thought he was still at the hawks?

Yes

No