Coach Alastair Clarkson IV - HFC Racism Investigation Discussion

[Colby Cheer Squad]

It would be a complete farce if Clarko, Fagan and Burt walked away from this with more money than the people who made the complaints.

And that's not their fault or the complainants fault.

It would feel like a kick in the guts for the families for sure but that's the nature of compensatory damages that take account of reputational harm. Damage to a person's reputation can be valued quite highly depending upon their earning potential. On the other hand, the families' compensation is based on emotional suffering, which is considerably more subjective and difficult to put a value on.

It's no consolation to the families, but I imagine both Clarko and Fagan would not keep the money but would make a large contribution to indigenous community services. At least after legal costs are covered.

 

[Merlin007]

An amazing little snippet in there. Leon Egan, the Hawthorn employee explicitly paid to help indigenous players and families feel comfortable at the club, the one whose job it was to blow any whistles that needed to be blown, the man whose cousin did the review, the staffer whose name was conveniently redacted from the leaked report, is listed here as a victim.

As I understand it (and I might be wrong) - Leon's complaint is that there was so much work to do supporting indigenous players that he asked for additional paid work, and was denied it, this being evidence of the harm done to him and the hostile environment facing indigenous players

 

[Merlin007]

That scum won't play any football until after the investigation and then have to serve his bans.

I understand that - the comparison is to another person charged with a criminal offence (ie Phil Egan) attending an official AFL function while the matter is still before the courts

 

[gokangas]

It would be a complete farce if Clarko, Fagan and Burt walked away from this with more money than the people who made the complaints.

And that's not their fault or the complainants fault.

But its not about the money.

 

[ferball]

But its not about the money.

Why not. I guess indigenous Australians probably shouldn't be allowed to have money given they're a pack of bludgers who steal stuff all the time yeah?

 

[ChairmanZia]

I understand that - the comparison is to another person charged with a criminal offence (ie Phil Egan) attending an official AFL function while the matter is still before the courts

When he goes to court, clarkson' and afl's legal team will most definitely use that as a character reference to discredit him and all his findings.

When this goes to court, the afl will team up with the coaches alas get targetted from both sides.

 

[DocSholl]

But its not about the money.

This isn't the gotcha you think it is

 

[gokangas]

Why not. I guess indigenous Australians probably shouldn't be allowed to have money given they're a pack of bludgers who steal stuff all the time yeah?

I'm going back to the original statements made early on. Mate, if they have been mistreated as alleged then good luck to them. They deserve whatever compensation is appropriate. But early on their legal folk were saying they weren't after money. Anyway, this all assumes the news report is correct. I just hope that this can all be reconciled as I don't think it is helping anyone move forward.

 

[ferball]

I'm going back to the original statements made early on. Mate, if they have been mistreated as alleged then good luck to them. They deserve whatever compensation is appropriate. But early on their legal folk were saying they weren't after money. Anyway, this all assumes the news report is correct. I just hope that this can all be reconciled as I don't think it is helping anyone move forward.

Put yourself in their shoes.

Whatever happened early on is long gone, nearly two years ago.

Every other bastard is making money out of your suffering. Journos, the people that publish them, lawyers, the AFL, your advisors, Egan etc etc. They've all made money and had their say. Even people that aren't making money are using your suffering to further their own agendas. Most likely you're also the people with the least money and the most difficult life in this whole situation as well.

You didn't start this. You didn't go to them, they came to you to make themselves look good and in the process you've had to relive a painful traumatic part of your life.

You were told it would be confidential and now the whole ****en country knows.

And finally the people you feel are responsible stand to make millions of dollars out of it as well.

Its your story, they asked you to tell it and now every other campaigner is cashing in on it. Why shouldn't you be the one getting the most cash? Without you none of it happens and on top of that reliving the whole mess is ****ed.

 

[gokangas]

Put yourself in their shoes.

Whatever happened early on is long gone, nearly two years ago.

Every other bastard is making money out of your suffering. Journos, the people that publish them, lawyers, the AFL, your advisors, Egan etc etc. They've all made money and had their say. Even people that aren't making money are using your suffering to further their own agendas. Most likely you're also the people with the least money and the most difficult life in this whole situation as well.

You didn't start this. You didn't go to them, they came to you to make themselves look good and in the process you've had to relive a painful traumatic part of your life.

You were told it would be confidential and now the whole hecken country knows.

And finally the people you feel are responsible stand to make millions of dollars out of it as well.

Its your story, they asked you to tell it and now every other campaigner is cashing in on it. Why shouldn't you be the one getting the most cash? Without you none of it happens and on top of that reliving the whole mess is ****ed.

Don't have a problem with any of that. But right from the start their legal folk said they didn't want compensation - wasn't true. As I said I have no issues with them receiving compensation if the allegations are proven.

 

[ferball]

Don't have a problem with any of that. But right from the start their legal folk said they didn't want compensation - wasn't true. As I said I have no issues with them receiving compensation if the allegations are proven.

That wasn't the start. At the start legal people weren't involved. It was just between them and Phil Egan/Hawthorn.

 

[gokangas]

That wasn't the start. At the start legal people weren't involved. It was just between them and Phil Egan/Hawthorn.

Fair enough. Whatever the outcome as long as Hawthorn pays it would seem fair.

 

[Colby Cheer Squad]

Don't have a problem with any of that. But right from the start their legal folk said they didn't want compensation - wasn't true. As I said I have no issues with them receiving compensation if the allegations are proven.

As I recall, the reference to it not being about the money came quite late when the Riolis became involved. Also, insisting it's not about money is not exactly the same as saying they don't want money.

 

[The Warlord]

But its not about the money.

Do you think Phil and Jim Krakouer should be compensated for having their careers and subsequent health damaged by the racist abuse they copped?

 

[ferball]

Fair enough. Whatever the outcome as long as Hawthorn pays it would seem fair.

Yep.

 

[Passmore]

Do you think Phil and Jim Krakouer should be compensated for having their careers and subsequent health damaged by the racist abuse they copped?

And the compensation should be funded by seizing racist Aunty Kevin's assets.

Not sure what his wine cellar would bring. Probably not much stock.

Sent from my SM-A908B using Tapatalk

 

[The Warlord]

From these articles aka Leon Zwier negotiating through Robbo is does seem like the issue is Hawthorn the club than any existing bad blood between players and coaches.

 

[gokangas]

Do you think Phil and Jim Krakouer should be compensated for having their careers and subsequent health damaged by the racist abuse they copped?

I am old enough to remember what they went through. I was at games then and around the club. The racial abuse on and off the ground was extraordinary. Every racist word you can think of was thrown at them quite openly. Compensation? Don't see why not. Thankfully what happened to the Krakouers could not happen today at that same level. But there will always be racists and you have to hope that people call them out.

 

[Colby Cheer Squad]

I am old enough to remember what they went through. I was at games then and around the club. The racial abuse on and off the ground was extraordinary. Every racist word you can think of was thrown at them quite openly. Compensation? Don't see why not. Thankfully what happened to the Krakouers could not happen today at that same level. But there will always be racists and you have to hope that people call them out.

Byron Pickett is going his ex manager for sifting much more than his dues from the top of his AFL career earnings. Byron made the point that he had nothing to show for his career. The trash on social media who oddly always appear as middle aged white men with beards and wearing sunglasses in their avatar photos are smirking over where the money really went. They absolutely still walk among us.

 

[gokangas]

Byron Pickett is going his ex manager for sifting much more than his dues from the top of his AFL career earnings. Byron made the point that he had nothing to show for his career. The trash on social media who oddly always appear as middle aged white men with beards and wearing sunglasses in their avatar photos are smirking over where the money really went. They absolutely still walk among us.

Read that. Sad story. Wait for the facts I suppose but if what the news reports are inferring is correct its a disgrace,

 

[Orange Peanut]

Byron Pickett is going his ex manager for sifting much more than his dues from the top of his AFL career earnings. Byron made the point that he had nothing to show for his career. The trash on social media who oddly always appear as middle aged white men with beards and wearing sunglasses in their avatar photos are smirking over where the money really went. They absolutely still walk among us.

Bro.

 

[JGreezy]

Put yourself in their shoes.

Whatever happened early on is long gone, nearly two years ago.

Every other bastard is making money out of your suffering. Journos, the people that publish them, lawyers, the AFL, your advisors, Egan etc etc. They've all made money and had their say. Even people that aren't making money are using your suffering to further their own agendas. Most likely you're also the people with the least money and the most difficult life in this whole situation as well.

You didn't start this. You didn't go to them, they came to you to make themselves look good and in the process you've had to relive a painful traumatic part of your life.

You were told it would be confidential and now the whole hecken country knows.

And finally the people you feel are responsible stand to make millions of dollars out of it as well.

Its your story, they asked you to tell it and now every other campaigner is cashing in on it. Why shouldn't you be the one getting the most cash? Without you none of it happens and on top of that reliving the whole mess is ****ed.

Did they go and speak to the ABC before the report was even out? If so, the argument here is a bit different.

 

[Colby Cheer Squad]

Bro.

Yeah I'm not saying all middle aged white dudes with beards and wearing sunglasses in their avatar pics are racist but those who are not should be aware that they share a sense of self image with racists and that should concern them enough to reconsider some of their choices.

 

[ferball]

Did they go and speak to the ABC before the report was even out? If so, the argument here is a bit different.

I dunno. Did they?

 

[FlyHigh18]

Robbo: Hawthorn racism talks on verge of collapse​

Mark Robinson

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/robbo-hawthorn-racism-talks-on-verge-of-collapse-likely-to-head-to-federal-court/news-story/6058491640c2d7e52a9ea590eb0bd2a0

---

The Hawthorn racism peace talks are on the verge of collapse on the eve of the AFL’s grandest celebration of Indigenous football.

As Richmond and Essendon prepare for Dreamtime at the G on Saturday night, it can be revealed the Hawks racism scandal is destined to be heard in Federal Court, unless there’s a “significant shift” in mediation.

Despite two extensions in the conciliation talks between multiple Indigenous players and their families, the Hawks and their former coaches Alastair Clarkson, Chris Fagan and Jason Burt, the talks are at an impasse over several issues, including compensation.

It’s believed the players and their families have been told they would receive a financial settlement – which they believe is a lowball offer – in response to their claims they were the victims of historical racist behaviour.

The players and their families, however, believe Clarkson and Fagan could be offered hundreds of thousands of dollars in compensation.

It has been previously reported the Hawks could be forced pay the coaches, including Burt, a financial settlement of more than $1 million for damages to their reputation as result of the club’s cultural safety review.

The players and their families also want an acknowledgment of their pain and suffering and an apology for their treatment, but at the same time, the coaches are also seeking a public apology from the club.

A source told this masthead: “The talks have broken down – it’s headed to the Federal Court. That’s sad, but it will get the truth out. Witnesses can be called.’’

Another source said: “The financial offer downplays the pain suffered by the families, then and now. And unless there’s a significant shift, this is headed for the Federal Court.’’

Witnesses are likely to include the author of the cultural safety review, Phil Egan, and former AFL chief executive Gillon McLachlan.

Egan, who played a role in launching the first Dreamtime at the G match in 2005, will attend Saturday night’s match in the official function.

As part of the conciliation talks, the Indigenous families, which includes premiership star Cyril Rioli, are also pushing for Hawthorn to adopt the fabric of Collingwood’s “Do Better” report.

The establishment of a formal “truth-telling” framework, put in place by the Magpies, is also being sought.

On May 11, the National Indigenous Times reported there were still 18 matters unresolved from the mediation talks. The Times reported that Hawthorn’s estimated legal bill – should the mediation end up in Federal Court – would be in the vicinity of $3 million.

Former Hawthorn great Don Scott had previously said “heads should roll” from the Andrew Gowers-led Hawks board if compensation payments were made.

​

“They’ve set aside $1.5 million and I reckon it’s already cost them that again in legal representation – so somebody has got to fall on their sword,” Scott said.

“Why have they got to pay this money out when the AFL said they have got no case to answer? It’s not their money – it is club and members’ money.’’

Clarkson, Fagan and Burt have denied the racism allegations.

Robbo hasn't been this focused on a story since * injected their players.